posted April 05, 2013 12:21 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
My whole point from the beginning of this thread was to point out that men experience sexism and bs too, that was it. it should have stayed right there on the first page but nobody would leave it alone and insisted on arguing

---

Hey, you were right along there with us with the replying!

Maybe you should have mentioned it earlier in the thread. Once again always all the women's faults. LOL

quote:

---

i have to say is some of you need to look in the mirror.

---

Yep. You included.

posted April 05, 2013 12:48 AM            

Your Swedish idiots are idiots. I suspect that your friends enjoy a pity party like a lot of people. Some folk tslk the same way about the "lazy" coloured folk who just vote to receive a cellphone.

It's called sour grapes, and yes, some women indulge in them too.

posted April 05, 2013 07:32 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by starfairy:
Yes, aquaguy91. It's us, not you. *eye roll*

1,000,000 people could tell you you're wrong, but you'll still insist you're 'right'. This is a repeating theme in each and everyone of your threads. Everyone on this forum tells you the same thing over and over again, but it doesn't get through. Lost cause *sigh*

---

*slow clap*

(All I can do is slow clap now after cheering myself hoarse for Faith )

posted April 05, 2013 07:37 AM            

"Found in a random forum, and quoted for truth "Bitterness is a force field that keeps decent women away from you." As a man with bitterness problems in my past, this is dead ******* right. And if you're bitter but think you hide it well, you don't.

I don't mean cynical, I don't mean kinda upset at some thing, I mean a full existential sense of profound sadness and injustice with a little self-pity thrown in. That is a force field people can read and will avoid. And, well, women are people, simple as that."

I have the real feeling this will be ag in about 13 years.
(My friend's 35.)

posted April 05, 2013 07:39 AM            

Thanks, ag!

posted April 05, 2013 07:46 AM            

And thanks for clapping for me.

posted April 05, 2013 08:14 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
My whole point from the beginning of this thread was to point out that men experience sexism and bs too, that was it. it should have stayed right there on the first page but nobody would leave it alone and insisted on arguing that and goading me and here we are.

---

Does it *EVER* occur to you to take one iota of responsibility for these discussions escalating over and over again?

Here are some remarks you made that "upped the ante" early in the conversation:

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
^no, I know all about feminists and I have big time philosophical problems with them

---

Rather that differentiating between radical feminists who bash men, and other feminists who just fight for equal rights and give voice to women's issues, you lump them all together and reject them wholesale. This gives the impression that you think even moderate feminists are way off base. And why should you take issue with them? They just want equality.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
well one thing i have a big problem with is how women are outnumbering men significantly when it comes to enrollment numbers in college and instead of focusing on getting more guys into college or trying to figure out why guys arent going to school in the first place we are focusing on getting more women into the only majors where men are outnumbering women. thats a big problem in my opinion.

---

Do you want the government to come out, hand-pick you out of a crowd, place you in a good school and choose your major?

Who is "we"? I never saw anything, neither on the college campus nor in the media, that tried to get me to enroll in "men's" majors like engineering. You never cite any references so I won't bother asking...I'll just assume you are being paranoid again.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
also you just illustrated another reason why I have big time problems with feminism. Any man who has any disagreements with women or feminism is automatically labeled a misogynist, that is also a big problem.

---

You're saying women are incapable of differentiating between misogynistic remarks and anti-feminist remarks? I guess that's because there is usually a fine line between misogyny and anti-feminism, because most feminists just want equality, and if you don't want women having equality, you are a misogynist, period.

"ANY man who has disagreements with women"...

Why do you constantly over-generalize? Why do you act omniscient, as if you are watching gender debates unfold around the world and noticing all the men being unfairly treated?

The fact that you see things that way shows that you have a very distorted notion of how women behave. It's as if you imagine that militant girls are everywhere, forcing men against the wall and trying to coerce "the right words" out of them.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I have been accused of being a misogynist several times already for merely stating my opinions.

---

That's because your opinions are misogynistic.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I have been attacked and had my character judged for giving a different perspective on things, yet I am supposedly the hateful one.

---

Your euphemisms aren't changing the written record here, aquaguy. "Different perspective on things" sounds harmless, but the devil is in the details.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
The fact that most of you resort to childish shaming tactics shows a tremendous lack of maturity and that you cant handle someone seeing something differently than you.

---

Please give an instance of a childish shaming tactic. I beg you. Also the fact that you use the phrase "most of you" interchangeably with "you" (plural) reflects the problematic nature of your thinking. When most of us are immature, as you say, you apply the criticism to all of us. It changes from being an issue of "most of you women here" to another bigoted insinuation: "all of you women."

So apparently, now you have more *proof* that women are immature. It's like a bonanza for you...every time you kick the hornets' nest you get more reasons to think ill of women.

Gosh it's like you do it on purpose!

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
ain my original point was that men also experience/have experienced
hardship and sexism and still do.

---

Once again, you kept adding fuel to the fire...

posted April 05, 2013 08:39 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
our culture narrative paints men as having it easy and women as having it hard, which isnt true.I guess that point is too advanced for you or anyone here to grasp.

---

Because we're stupid women?

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
All I know is i'm sick of the feminist shaming tactics. anytime a guy brings up any mens issues he is reminded that women crap out babies

---

It's nothing like crapping.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
and once in a blue moon a woman is raped or battered or murdered.

---

You'd be surprised how many women get raped. But again, it's more convenient for you, for argument's sake, to be flippant and dismissive of what we go through.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
And another thing... most men are sick and tired of hearing about rape

---

"How dare you idiots complain??!!!"

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
and being made to feel guilty about it because the majority of us dont rape!!!!

---

Rapists tend to be serial offenders, so one man can rape dozens of women.

Many of us LL members have been raped and have discussed it at Sweet Peas. But it's as if you want to gag us because you can't stand your fellow men being implicated.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
therefore we dont exactly jive with the total denial of our issues because someone got raped somewhere therefore our issues dont matter.

---

Rape doesn't matter, you are sick of hearing about that. You having girls in your class at college, though? THAT is a "big problem"!!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Thats terrible , we alll know that but it doesnt change the fact that men experience sexism and bs too. And if you dont want to acknowledge that I dont care about anything you have to say.

---

Sure men experience sexism. I never said they didn't. You haven't even mentioned some of the key ways I see men being discriminated against in modern America.

posted April 05, 2013 08:43 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by starfairy:
If you actually think our statements are 'weak emotional arguments', and your comments are rational, you are sadly mistaken.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by starfairy:
HOwever, even the most hardcore feminist group would ever say those men 'deserve it', which is more than I can say about how hardcore men's group, society and the media portray the rape of a woman.

---

posted April 05, 2013 08:46 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by T:
Hey, you were right along there with us with the replying!

Maybe you should have mentioned it earlier in the thread. Once again always all the women's faults. LOL

---

ALWAYS.

Edit: Forgot to mention this~

quote:

---

Originally posted by T:
I mean.....the women here can sympathize with some of your views, but most of them are extremely harsh and sound like they are coming from someone who's spend many hours talking about this with other men who share the same views.

---

ABSOLUTELY.

I strongly suspect that aquaguy spends a lot of time hanging around men whose explicit purpose in convening is to bash/complain about women. Like the losers at the American Women (Mostly) Suck forum.

posted April 05, 2013 08:50 AM            

That is so good!!! Not surprised that you have smart friends.

Believe it or not, I am finally done talking here

posted April 05, 2013 10:25 AM            

------------------
" Some define good as that which preserves, and evil as that which destroys; but destruction can be cleansing and purifying, for there is such a thing in both men and races as spiritual constipation, which comes from too much preservation of the status quo." ( Dion Fortune )

posted April 05, 2013 03:35 PM            

Granted, I don't know aquaguy very well, but his posts in this thread do not warrant these kinds of responses. There is a lot of projection going on here.

His first post: Interesting point. Never thought about it before.

His second post: He has big time philosophical issues with feminists. So what? He follows that line by stating equality isn't found by focusing on issues of one gender. That's not controversial. He's talking about gender equality the same as the rest of you.

His third post: He points out an example of sexism in favor of women, and says it's a problem that someone that notices is automatically called a misogynist. That's true. It is a shame that the discussion goes that way instead of in the direction of understanding.

His fourth post: He defends that the notion of disagreeing with feminism is equal to a wholesale disrespect of women. He's right. Saying, "I hate feminism," is not equal to saying, "I hate women."

His fifth post explains that he doesn't perceive the push to get women into engineering or science is a push for gender equality, but rather putting one gender over another.

His sixth post he takes issue with being misquoted, and reiterates concern that the genders are not being treated equally in the scenario of promoting women into engineering and science degrees.

His seventh post he says that he doesn't believe that men were ever dominant over women, which once again points to an attitude of gender equality, not gender inequality, or woman-hating.

His eight post he takes issue with his protest being brushed aside without consideration (much like most of his post in this thread have been).

In his ninth post he calls for mutual respect.

In his tenth post he explains his personality, and how he doesn't enjoy words being put into his mouth.

In his eleventh post he points out the irony in saying that no one gains any power by subverting the power of others. He points out that feminists seem to be engaging in this behavior themselves.

In his twelfth, thirteenth, and fourteenth posts he claims to be like most Aquarius by saying that he has a great sense of humor and laughs a lot, and thinks YTA is funny.

In his fifteenth post he notes that women do have the same rights as men. He's once again pushing equality, not hatred towards women.

In his sixteenth post he notes that there are legitimate womens' rights issues in other parts of the world, but he doesn't see them so much in the Western world.

In his seventeenth post he legitimately asks, "What hardcore stance?" I personally haven't witnessed a hardcore stance in this thread, so I can't help agree with his assessment. He then promotes gender equality again.

His eighteenth post diverts in to the topic of chivalry, which isn't really what the conversation is about (at least from the perspective of only having this thread to go on).

In his 19th post, he makes the observation that a chivalrous male can be misconstrued in this day and age, which can be true, especially amongst young people. In his 20th post he notes that he has come across as showering too much attention on a romantic interest.

21st post notes that loving deeds do indeed go wasted.

22nd and 23rd posts he rejects the belittling talk of T. I would note as a person who was tall even when young, that we strapping young men get asked to do all manner of manual labor simply by virtue of being a guy with muscles. Talk about a recurrent gender bias. They didn't send my sisters out to help with the luggage.

Then I come into the conversation, because I thought it was me that was accused of using the term feminazi, which just doesn't sound like me.

24th post, aquaguy notes that it was him who used the term, and explains that he used it because "they seem to be filled with hate and resentment towards men." So, he doesn't like feminism for the same reason you all seem to not like him: gender bias. "Any time you try to bring up any kind of mens issue you are met with an irrational emotional argument," he says, which I would note is a call for gender equality, not a sign that he hates or is bitter towards women. "As you said there is alot of sexism against men and nobody wants to acknowledge it."

25th post he notes that gender-biased articles that are pro-men in some way are frowned upon. He seems to have an issue with gender bias. "If society is trying to reach equality why is it that society constantly tries to pump women up amd put men down?"

26th post he asks why it's men that always take the heat for being misogynists. Gender equality.

27th post he explains his view of history, which other people legitimately take issue with, but notice that his history is filled with sexism towards men: only men can work because of their strength, only men get sent to war, the work is hard and only men are doing it. Whether his picture is right or not (and there is some truth in what he's saying), he's arguing that men should have the same right to not engage in all of these activities they've been forced into by society. It's not women-bashing. It's gender equality he's promoting. "everybody had it hard back in the day."

28th post is similar to the 27th. "Now I fully realize women had it rough, everyone had it rough!"

29th post he gives some perspective on men's right to vote.

30th post he takes issue with being called ignorant by someone stating that gender equality should be the main goal. Hmmm...I think that's what he's saying, so how could that be ignorant? "I keep coming with rational arguments and solid points and all I get in return are weak emotional arguments." I have to concur with this assessment. Most of what has been flung his way in this thread have been knee-jerk reactions to what people think he's saying. "You say I have no idea or appreciate what women go through or have gone through when I do. I just dont agree with the version of history that men had it easy and women had it rough , both genders had it rough but nobody wants to acknowledge that."

31st post he defends himself against a poorly constructed attack by Faith. He goes on again about understanding the male struggle.

32nd post: another response to the over-reaction. "I never denied women didnt have it hard, i was simply showing that both sexes had it hard." Sounds like he's interested in gender equality. "Thats terrible , we alll know that but it doesnt change the fact that men experience sexism and bs too. And if you dont want to acknowledge that I dont care about anything you have to say."

33rd post: he recaps: "My whole point from the beginning of this thread was to point out that men experience sexism and bs too, that was it. it should have stayed right there on the first page but nobody would leave it alone and insisted on arguing that and goading me and here we are." How is it that I'm the only one reading what he's actually writing?

My wife's home now, so I'd better go. I surely hope that the anti-aquaguy crowd start paying attention to what he's actually saying instead of what you want to think that he's saying.

posted April 05, 2013 03:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by AcousticGod:

My wife's home now, so I'd better go.

---

posted April 05, 2013 04:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by AcousticGod:
Wow...

Granted, I don't know aquaguy very well, but his posts in this thread do not warrant these kinds of responses. There is a lot of projection going on here.

His first post: Interesting point. Never thought about it before.

His second post: He has big time philosophical issues with feminists. So what? He follows that line by stating equality isn't found by focusing on issues of one gender. That's not controversial. He's talking about gender equality the same as the rest of you.

His third post: He points out an example of sexism in favor of women, and says it's a problem that someone that notices is automatically called a misogynist. That's true. It is a shame that the discussion goes that way instead of in the direction of understanding.

His fourth post: He defends that the notion of disagreeing with feminism is equal to a wholesale disrespect of women. He's right. Saying, "I hate feminism," is not equal to saying, "I hate women."

His fifth post explains that he doesn't perceive the push to get women into engineering or science is a push for gender equality, but rather putting one gender over another.

His sixth post he takes issue with being misquoted, and reiterates concern that the genders are not being treated equally in the scenario of promoting women into engineering and science degrees.

His seventh post he says that he doesn't believe that men were ever dominant over women, which once again points to an attitude of gender equality, not gender inequality, or woman-hating.

His eight post he takes issue with his protest being brushed aside without consideration (much like most of his post in this thread have been).

In his ninth post he calls for mutual respect.

In his tenth post he explains his personality, and how he doesn't enjoy words being put into his mouth.

In his eleventh post he points out the irony in saying that no one gains any power by subverting the power of others. He points out that feminists seem to be engaging in this behavior themselves.

In his twelfth, thirteenth, and fourteenth posts he claims to be like most Aquarius by saying that he has a great sense of humor and laughs a lot, and thinks YTA is funny.

In his fifteenth post he notes that women do have the same rights as men. He's once again pushing equality, not hatred towards women.

In his sixteenth post he notes that there are legitimate womens' rights issues in other parts of the world, but he doesn't see them so much in the Western world.

In his seventeenth post he legitimately asks, "What hardcore stance?" I personally haven't witnessed a hardcore stance in this thread, so I can't help agree with his assessment. He then promotes gender equality again.

His eighteenth post diverts in to the topic of chivalry, which isn't really what the conversation is about (at least from the perspective of only having this thread to go on).

In his 19th post, he makes the observation that a chivalrous male can be misconstrued in this day and age, which can be true, especially amongst young people. In his 20th post he notes that he has come across as showering too much attention on a romantic interest.

21st post notes that loving deeds do indeed go wasted.

22nd and 23rd posts he rejects the belittling talk of T. I would note as a person who was tall even when young, that we strapping young men get asked to do all manner of manual labor simply by virtue of being a guy with muscles. Talk about a recurrent gender bias. They didn't send my sisters out to help with the luggage.

Then I come into the conversation, because I thought it was me that was accused of using the term feminazi, which just doesn't sound like me.

24th post, aquaguy notes that it was him who used the term, and explains that he used it because [b]"they seem to be filled with hate and resentment towards men." So, he doesn't like feminism for the same reason you all seem to not like him: gender bias. "Any time you try to bring up any kind of mens issue you are met with an irrational emotional argument," he says, which I would note is a call for gender equality, not a sign that he hates or is bitter towards women. "As you said there is alot of sexism against men and nobody wants to acknowledge it."

25th post he notes that gender-biased articles that are pro-men in some way are frowned upon. He seems to have an issue with gender bias. "If society is trying to reach equality why is it that society constantly tries to pump women up amd put men down?"

26th post he asks why it's men that always take the heat for being misogynists. Gender equality.

27th post he explains his view of history, which other people legitimately take issue with, but notice that his history is filled with sexism towards men: only men can work because of their strength, only men get sent to war, the work is hard and only men are doing it. Whether his picture is right or not (and there is some truth in what he's saying), he's arguing that men should have the same right to not engage in all of these activities they've been forced into by society. It's not women-bashing. It's gender equality he's promoting. "everybody had it hard back in the day."

28th post is similar to the 27th. "Now I fully realize women had it rough, everyone had it rough!"

29th post he gives some perspective on men's right to vote.

30th post he takes issue with being called ignorant by someone stating that gender equality should be the main goal. Hmmm...I think that's what he's saying, so how could that be ignorant? "I keep coming with rational arguments and solid points and all I get in return are weak emotional arguments." I have to concur with this assessment. Most of what has been flung his way in this thread have been knee-jerk reactions to what people think he's saying. "You say I have no idea or appreciate what women go through or have gone through when I do. I just dont agree with the version of history that men had it easy and women had it rough , both genders had it rough but nobody wants to acknowledge that."

31st post he defends himself against a poorly constructed attack by Faith. He goes on again about understanding the male struggle.

32nd post: another response to the over-reaction. "I never denied women didnt have it hard, i was simply showing that both sexes had it hard." Sounds like he's interested in gender equality. "Thats terrible , we alll know that but it doesnt change the fact that men experience sexism and bs too. And if you dont want to acknowledge that I dont care about anything you have to say."

33rd post: he recaps: "My whole point from the beginning of this thread was to point out that men experience sexism and bs too, that was it. it should have stayed right there on the first page but nobody would leave it alone and insisted on arguing that and goading me and here we are." How is it that I'm the only one reading what he's actually writing?

My wife's home now, so I'd better go. I surely hope that the anti-aquaguy crowd start paying attention to what he's actually saying instead of what you want to think that he's saying.

[/B]

---

posted April 05, 2013 05:36 PM            

My attitude to ag is based on a lot more than this thread.

You can ask pretty much anyone around LL about his other threads, and they'll tell you they are littered with angry words and thoughts about females. SO MANY people have told him this, it's not even funny.

If it seems like we're attacking him, it's because of a build-up of his constant whiny and angry posts about women. This is NOT the first time he has encountered this problem here. And it's not only women who point this out to him, by the way.

All the anger and hostility really worries me.

he said: "talking about womens rights in 2013 is just ridiculous... it was an issue a few decades ago but not now, not in the western world. now women in the middle east, yeah they are opressed and have legitimate gripes, lots of them actually." To say that women in the west don't have 'legitimate gripes' is dismissive and offensive. Just because we now have legal rights, does not mean that we do not not have 'legitimate gripes.'

He has made tons of threads saying how difficult it is for him to find someone who will date him, and how women will not give him a chance, and how frustrated he is about this. I'm not pointing this out here to embarrass him; these threads are out in the open for all to see. So, I think what he says can be seen as projection, too.

posted April 05, 2013 06:03 PM            

I was cheering for little ag at first, wanted to defend him, wanted to understand him, wanted to help him to understand what others were trying to say, but...
...yeah.

If you'd like to understand where this is coming from, you need to read those threads.

There's a history.

And did you notice that this is a thread about bad language and chimed in wondering why men get the short end of the stick?
This is a common trend in his posts.

posted April 05, 2013 06:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by starfairy:
AcousticGod

My attitude to ag is based on a lot more than this thread.

You can ask pretty much anyone around LL about his other threads, and they'll tell you they are littered with angry words and thoughts about females. SO MANY people have told him this, it's not even funny.

If it seems like we're attacking him, it's because of a build-up of his constant whiny and angry posts about women. This is NOT the first time he has encountered this problem here. And it's not only women who point this out to him, by the way.

All the anger and hostility really worries me.

he said: "talking about womens rights in 2013 is just ridiculous... it was an issue a few decades ago but not now, not in the western world. now women in the middle east, yeah they are opressed and have legitimate gripes, lots of them actually." To say that women in the west don't have 'legitimate gripes' is dismissive and offensive. Just because we now have legal rights, does not mean that we do not not have 'legitimate gripes.'

So, I actually AM paying attention to what he's saying, thanks.

---