posted April 05, 2013 06:23 PM            

quote:

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he said: "talking about womens rights in 2013 is just ridiculous... it was an issue a few decades ago but not now, not in the western world. now women in the middle east, yeah they are opressed and have legitimate gripes, lots of them actually." To say that women in the west don't have 'legitimate gripes' is dismissive and offensive. Just because we now have legal rights, does not mean that we do not not have 'legitimate gripes.'

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But no one had a problem with doomlord saying, "Though i do think woman are not given enough credit and are often disrespected even though they can usually reach the same level as men in many fields," which is essentially saying the same thing as your quote from aquaguy. No one took issue with what doomlord said.

quote:

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So, I actually AM paying attention to what he's saying, thanks.

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I would still say that you weren't. His message in this thread has been remarkably consistent to someone like me who isn't influenced by any outside factor. It seriously looks like no one is paying one iota of attention to what he's actually said here. Let me take that last sentence back. I have seen some people admit understanding what he's saying throughout. However, the bulk of the conversation has tended towards treating his point as something completely different from what it actually was.

Mockingbird,

posted April 05, 2013 06:39 PM            

I like you, but the one note thing makes you seem embittered.

My friend that I quoted was a bit like you when he was younger, but he learned to let a lot of stuff go and is happier for it.
He'll still stand up against injustice and can call someone on bs better than almost anyone else I know, but he's learned to moderate himself, to listen to others and begin true dialogues rather than state his position ad infinitum.

I think you'll get there, too, and you'll be a better advocate for your positions (many of which are valid).

posted April 05, 2013 06:43 PM            

Did you miss his comment saying something like "oh no another feminist"? That's where it started, I think.

What he's saying is like saying "gay people face discrimination, but I can't believe someone is talking about those troubles again when straight people are discriminated against too." Everyone experiences discrimination one way or another, but aquaguy refuses to believe some people have it worse.

Can you see why there's a general anti-aquaguy thing going on? People will hop on him and try to show him that parts of his thinking are wrong, but he never accepts it.

posted April 05, 2013 06:51 PM            

quote:

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Mockingbird,

I get it, but I think maybe the attempts to understand should continue. This thread is riddled with only misunderstanding his point here. He started this conversation with a weird observation that the "c" word is the most terrible word ever, but the "d" word is commonplace. That's strange, and...true. Why should there have been any sort of backlash? His statement wasn't unfair to women or misogynistic or anything. It was just an odd point that I'm sure many of us had never thought about before. It is oddly sexist that the "c" is treated with so much reverence, while the "d" word is essentially uninteresting.[/B]

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One could also (with some merit) point out that there's usually some degree of positive connotation when someone is referred to as a part of (or as possessing part of) male genitalia, but female genitalia almost aways carries a negative connotation.

Even...the d-word...is often half-praise, and saying that someone has...testes...is nearly always positive.
Calling someone a p-word or c-word does not.

posted April 05, 2013 06:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
AcousticGod;

Did you miss his comment saying something like "oh no another feminist"? That's where it started, I think.

What he's saying is like saying "gay people face discrimination, but I can't believe someone is talking about those troubles again when straight people are discriminated against too." Everyone experiences discrimination one way or another, but [b]aquaguy refuses to believe some people have it worse.

Can you see why there's a general anti-aquaguy thing going on? People will hop on him and try to show him that parts of his thinking are wrong, but he never accepts it.

And his comment about women crapping out babies just shows he has a marked lack of consideration towards women. I'm not even a woman and I found that offensive.[/B]

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posted April 05, 2013 06:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
^Thats the thing though, the whole notion that i'm this angry raging misogynist is false. If you could really see me and hear me you would see that i'm extraordinarily calm. so much so that My sisters ex husband (who was a big time hothead) used to sarcastically tease me and tell me "you need to calm down, you get too worked up over stuff."

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I think it's your phrasing.

I mean...crap out a baby?
C'mon, man - that's not going to build bridges

posted April 05, 2013 06:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
starfairy,

I would still say that you weren't. His message in this thread has been [b]remarkably consistent to someone like me who isn't influenced by any outside factor. It seriously looks like no one is paying one iota of attention to what he's actually said here. Let me take that last sentence back. I have seen some people admit understanding what he's saying throughout. However, the bulk of the conversation has tended towards treating his point as something completely different from what it actually was.
[/B]

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My point that my views ARE colored by outside influences, and therefore our reactions to him are in combination with what he is saying here, with what he has been saying before. You have come in here with a completely clean slate, while a lot of people here (especially the people who have been here for a long time) already know his other views. He has made many of these types of threads before, so it's just one more opportunity to b*tch.

Regardless of the past, he has said many controversial things (like the 'no legitimate gripe' thing I said before), and a lot of what he wrote about wasn't even a gender issue. He framed it as a gender issue (comparing men's issues to women's issues), but it was really an economic issue. Why frame it like a gender issue, then? So, he went from saying men's issues should be taken seriously, to saying women don't have 'legitimate gripes', to talking about an economic issue. I'd argue that's remarkably INconsistent.

You say I haven't been focusing on his main message, which you say wasn't sexist. HOwever, he followed his original statement with disrespectful comments. You expect me to not to respond to those, or point out any logical inconsistencies? I don't get why you're so hung up on his first point, that you suggest I ignore his second, third, fourth, fifth, etc.. point?

posted April 05, 2013 06:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
AcousticGod;

Did you miss his comment saying something like "oh no another feminist"? That's where it started, I think.

What he's saying is like saying "gay people face discrimination, but I can't believe someone is talking about those troubles again when straight people are discriminated against too." Everyone experiences discrimination one way or another, but [b]aquaguy refuses to believe some people have it worse.

Can you see why there's a general anti-aquaguy thing going on? People will hop on him and try to show him that parts of his thinking are wrong, but he never accepts it.

And his comment about women crapping out babies just shows he has a marked lack of consideration towards women. I'm not even a woman and I found that offensive.[/B]

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posted April 05, 2013 07:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by starfairy:
My point that my views ARE colored by outside influences, and therefore our reactions to him are in combination with what he is saying here, with what he has been saying before. You have come in here with a completely clean slate, while a lot of people here (especially the people who have been here for a long time) already know his other views. He has made many of these types of threads before, so I see it as just one more opportunity to b*tch.

And before you accuse me letting the past get the best of me (which wouldn't even be unwarranted), it's not like he hasn't said anything controversial (like the 'no legitimate gripe' thing I said before), and a lot of what he wrote about wasn't even a gender issue. He framed it as a gender issue (comparing men's issues to women's issues), but it was really an economic issue. Why frame it like a gender issue, then?

I had a different reading of what DoomLord said. I thought he was implying that we're not given enough credit and are often disrespected despite the fact that we are skilled enough to reach the same level? Perhaps they can clarify?

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posted April 05, 2013 07:14 PM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
No, I never said womens issues shouldnt be taken seriously.

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You said men are sick of hearing about rape.

posted April 05, 2013 07:16 PM            

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Originally posted by mockingbird:
I think it's your phrasing.

I mean...crap out a baby?
C'mon, man - that's not going to build bridges

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posted April 05, 2013 07:19 PM            

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31st post he defends himself against a poorly constructed attack by Faith.

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Explain how it was poorly constructed.

posted April 05, 2013 07:21 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
You said men are sick of hearing about rape.

Same thing.

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posted April 05, 2013 07:22 PM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by T:
[b] That is good. You should.

& I'm sorry I forgot about your Aspergers and how it plays into your life.

I think humor is an issue for people with that.

All said, you are probably doing alright.
Wrong.YTA also has aspergers and he is very funny. I have a big sense of humor and have been encouraged to try stand up comedy.

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That actually makes three, although I don't take a big role on Lindaland or say anything unless I think its worth it. I will admit I've been more blunt lately.

Anyway, this thread actually made me smile.

aquaguy91,

Its relative, by that I mean there is a higher distribution of females here, so I wouldn't discuss this here.

People are "fixed" in there way of thinking, your not going to change your stance and neither well they.

posted April 05, 2013 07:23 PM            

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aquaguy91: No, I never said womens issues shouldnt be taken seriously. I just think mens issues need to be taken into consideration too. That was my whole point starting out in this thread.

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Refer to this:

quote:

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aquaguy refuses to believe some people have it worse.

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posted April 05, 2013 07:23 PM            

I would like to take a moment to point out the fact the BOTH of the AGs have Mercury conjunct Neptune.

Neither ever budges.

posted April 05, 2013 07:29 PM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
In the context that some women seem to hold all men responsible for it and hold it over our heads,did ya even read that part?

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That part is not relevant to the point that I was making, did you even read what I said??

No.

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I have literally seen lots of bickering between men and feminists on the net where the feminists basically tried to say" women get raped,therefore mens issues dont matter,end of debate."

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No one said that here. Why are you linking us to them??

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
now I'm not saying rape shouldnt be taken seriously it should.

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You could have said that the first time but chose not to.

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
However it is kind of annoying to see such a lack of respect and sympathy for mens issues.

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posted April 05, 2013 07:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
I know you never said women's issues shouldn't be taken seriously, but you deny the fact that women have had it worse and continue to have it worse.

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posted April 05, 2013 07:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
well one thing i have a big problem with is how women are outnumbering men significantly when it comes to enrollment numbers in college and instead of focusing on getting more guys into college or trying to figure out why guys arent going to school in the first place we are focusing on getting more women into the only majors where men are outnumbering women. thats a big problem in my opinion.

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(BA) Bachelor of Arts programs have a higher female - male ratio.
(B.Eng)Bachelor of Engineering programs have a higher male - female ratio
(BSc) Bachelor of Science is 50/50

I don't understand your argument, finding employment with a BA is harder and in this case since there are more males graduating with a BSc or B.Eng, males would have more earning potentially.

Of course a female BA graduate would find more use or make the most out of there BA. While a male with BA wouldn't know what to do with it, thats why "he" will go to engineering or science or try for an MBA.

The exception is business and Law, but business degrees are becoming Bachelor of Commerce degrees the same with law becoming Bachelor of Laws.

I don't live in the US, but the stats in Canada aren't too far off
source:http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/tag/male-female-ratio/

anyway, I don't see this thread dying anytime soon. Its as if you guys are going in circles, lol.

posted April 05, 2013 09:18 PM            

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His seventh post he says that he doesn't believe that men were ever dominant over women, which once again points to an attitude of gender equality, not gender inequality, or woman-hating.

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Oh and this...

quote:

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He started this conversation with a weird observation that the "c" word is the most terrible word ever, but the "d" word is commonplace. That's strange, and...true. ....It is oddly sexist that the "c" is treated with so much reverence, while the "d" word is essentially uninteresting.

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posted April 05, 2013 09:28 PM            

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Originally posted by starfairy:
^^^ AHAHA I have it too! Like ag, I have the conjunction in Capricorn

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Sorry! I try to not be astrologically bigoted or say negative stuff about any sign or placement.

posted April 06, 2013 12:42 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
and being made to feel guilty about it because the majority of us dont rape!!!!

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Just out of curiosity, how are men made to feel guilty about it?

Are you referring to how women are cautious? That's done for the same reason as Russian Roulette (though at least with men there's enough reward potential to justify the risk). Only one chamber is loaded, but pointing the gun at your head and squeezing the trigger isn't to be done lightly because if it's the wrong chamber then it's a life destroying mistake that can't be undone so it's a concern no matter how good the potential payoff is (like one chamber gives a cash reward instead...). Only the radicals (many of whom who come from very abusive backgrounds) go about claiming all men are rapists and they don't get respect, not even from most professional feminists (that is, work for the National Organization of Women, etc). And plenty of men understand that, too, and just as many feminist women want the best for their guys, sons, brothers, and the like, many guys want their daughters, wives, and other loved ones to be safe in a dangerous world.

posted April 06, 2013 08:44 AM            

Looks like we won this time, gals!