posted April 15, 2018 10:41 AM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
I am looking at Lucifer's Discovery chart and there are two things I find very fishy about it so far, 1. Kaali conjuncts Ixion and 2. Dejanira opposes Nessus. However, Kaali conjunct Ixion in libra trines Saturn conjunct Astraea and Dejanira opposite Nessus has astesroid angel sextile dejanira and trine nessus.

Kaali is power that can be used for good or bad but with Ixion there the chances that it will be used for bad increases. But then you have Saturn conjunct Astraea the goddess of justice trining Kaali conjunct Ixion so if that power is used for bad that person will suffer the consequences and will be held accountable by karma and or the law, there will be justice. The corruption of power or violation will not go unnoticed. Lucifer will punish the wrong doer.

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Interesting points. However, we can't ignore the rest of the chart in favor of certain asteroids or specific planets.

Here's what I see that I believe might be more important in Lucifer's discovery chart:

The feminine Moon at 0 Degrees Virgo conjunct Regulus.

Moon is Virgo is very feminine, in my opinion. Every Virgo Moon I've known has a very sensual and open sexual mentality.

Interpretation of Moon conj. Regulus:
"Moon conjunct Regulus: Occult interests, powerful friends, danger from enemies and false friends, gain by speculation, public prominence, great power, honor, wealth, benefits seldom last, violence, trouble and sickness. Make women high spirited and independent."

This plays up the sacred feminine nature of Venus (Lucifer). Lucifer (Venus) has been linked with the occult.

The pentagram which several hundreds of years ago Christians linked to Witchcraft is really a visual representation of the Venus Synodic Cycle - the 40 year processional conjunctions of Earth and Venus.

I personally think that Venus (Lucifer) and the occult practices linked to Venus have been under attack from the patriarchal religions that have sought to destroy the sacred feminine.

I think this founding date is no accident... Saturn (Father)/Astrea opposing Moon (Mother)/Regulus.

It's almost like Saturn/Astrea are trying to control (oppose) Moon/Regulus. But Moon/Regulus is telling us how much stronger and more important the feminine, specifically the sacred feminine is.

To cover the "powerful friends" and more "occult" aspect:
1. Freemasons are followers of Venus/Lucifer
2. They know Lucifer = Venus
3. This dates back to the Knights Templar
4. Both the Templars and Freemasons have been persecuted for "occult practices" stemming from Venus/Lucifer

To cover "danger from enemies and false friends":
1. The Christian church has been at war with "Lucifer" (Venus) for a long time
2. The most Christian churches and westernized religions represent the patriarchy that has sought to put the sacred feminine in its place, if not try to squash it
3. False friends would be anyone that misuses the sacred feminine or misrepresents it. The negative direction some women have gone in the name of "Feminism" comes to mind.

Add to it that Dejanira (the female victim) conj. Antares and is opposing Nessus (the male abuser) in this chart. Note that Nessus is also retrograde and Dejanira is not. The woman/victim is fighting back with the power of Mars and Jupiter - the nature of Antares.

In my opinion, it's as if this birth chart represents the control the sacred feminine (Venus/Lucifer) has been under by the patriarchy and only further solidifies my belief that Lucifer is a representation of Venus and the Sacred Feminine.

posted April 15, 2018 11:26 AM            

Astrea is the Star Maiden and Wikipedia says:
"She was the virgin goddess of innocence and purity and is always associated with the Greek goddess of justice, Dike" (interesting)

and...
"Astraea, the celestial virgin, was the last of the immortals to live with humans during the Golden Age, one of the old Greek religion's five deteriorating Ages of Man.[2] According to Ovid, Astraea abandoned the earth during the Iron Age.[3] Fleeing from the new wickedness of humanity, she ascended to heaven to become the constellation Virgo."

The fact that Saturn is conj. Astrea, even though it opposes Moon/Regulus is further interesting.

Ami Anne said in Brown Owl School:
"that which Saturn conjuncts makes us obsessed with actualizing"

Astrea is the celestial virgin is being obsessively actualized by Saturn, which opposes Virgo Moon/Regulus.

It's like the patriarchy (Saturn) is pushing hard to create (actualize) a "virgin" narrative for all women (Church view/ideology) and trying to destroy feminine sexuality (Moon Virgo/Regulus).

But I still view the Moon Virgo/Regulus and Dejanira/Antares as much stronger pieces to understanding this chart.

Discovery date Oct 29, 1964 during the Hippie Free Love and Women's Rights Movement?

posted April 15, 2018 11:39 AM            

The mtDNA is controlled by the bloodline. The Y-DNA is controlled by the ruling line. The ancients were expecting the Messiah to be born out of one of their virgins but they didn't know which one (Gen 3:15). So they practiced patrilineal parallel breeding to protect the bloodline from outside influence.

posted April 15, 2018 11:41 AM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Interesting that group rape is what triggers my Lucifer's need for immediate justice and I have Lucifer in Aquarius which rules groups opposing Eros (erotic love) conjunct Angel (messenger of love, sacred sex)! It really fits.

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Hypatia:

For you, I would argue that your Lucifer in Aquarius is triggered because Lucifer represents the Sacred Feminine and rape, even group rape of a prostitute is the destruction of that Sacred Feminine.

Again, group rape is patriarchal mentality controlling a woman's power and own sexuality. That is the antithesis of the Sacred Feminine.

I wish our world was much more open-minded. Sex has truly become about dominance and control (patriarchy) and not about sensuality and unity or the connection to another human being (sacred feminine).

Perhaps look at other things in your own chart that represent Justice and their placements - Jupiter, Juno, maybe Iris.

posted April 15, 2018 11:52 AM            

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Originally posted by SecretGeek:
Women's right movement began long before the 1960s. They were allowed to vote in the 1920s.

The mtDNA is controlled by the bloodline. The Y-DNA is controlled by the ruling line. The ancients were expecting the Messiah to be born out of one of their virgins but they didn't know which one (Gen 3:15). So they practiced patrilineal parallel breeding to protect the bloodline from outside influence.

Since some don't believe the Messiah already came, some still practice the gender discrimination. Even Americans are used to it but it is not necessary any more. You can see it when marriages occur through the surname assignment of the female or the name on the mail box.

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SecretGreek,

I agree. But the Free Love and Women's Movement was much stronger and more powerful during the 1960s than previous eras. Women would often go topless or naked at concerts like Woodstock. There were love-ins.

These are things you didn't see during the 1800s or 1920s.

Victoria Woodhull (September 23, 1838) was a proponent of free love and women's rights. She was the first woman to seek a US presidential nomination in 1872.

Her chart shows something incredibly interesting:

Libra Sun conj. Jupiter + Black Moon Lilith

Virgo Venus conj. Lucifer + Ceres

Again, the sexuality of Virgo and the true Sacred Feminine lighting the way (Lucifer, the light bringer).

posted April 15, 2018 12:11 PM            

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Originally posted by SecretGeek:
Not true. It has been happening since the Messiah was born. Not all are educated though, especially journalists, politicians, etc. Here are recent examples as early as the 1200s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_for_witchcraft

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You keep saying "no" and then arguing my point. I already mentioned Venus and Witchcraft, and how Lucifer (Venus) are linked. This is why the Templars and Freemasons hold Venus (Lucifer) to be sacred.

posted April 15, 2018 12:24 PM            

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Originally posted by SecretGeek:
Because you are wrong in the foundation of your presentation. Your sentiment is generally correct though. By the way, angels don't have gender. Neither does God. The temporary male dominance was only related to the mtDNA.

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I 100% agree with that Angels and God are genderless. As it says in the Gnostic Gospels about praying to the "Mother-father."

In fact, it's been in everyone's face for the last 100-ish years but people are blissfully blind to what they are being shown.

posted April 15, 2018 12:41 PM            

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Originally posted by SecretGeek:
In regards to the name Lucifer, one must look spiritually in scripture, not just literally. The Holy Bible works spiritually, meaning through our human spirit to the Holy Spirit. Here is an example:

◄ Luke 10:18 ► http://biblehub.com/luke/10-18.htm

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I also referenced scripture in the etymology. However, it appears you are being incredibly selective because that link does not mention Lucifer.

It does however mention a different word that has been adapted and manipulated by the patriarchy.

posted April 15, 2018 12:43 PM            

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Originally posted by SecretGeek:
"But the only thing we disagree with is that Lucifer is an angel."

You don't think Lucifer is an angel?

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posted April 15, 2018 12:51 PM            

Show me where I support other narratives related to gender discrimination.

posted April 15, 2018 01:20 PM            

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Originally posted by SecretGeek:
"Did you read my OP?"

Yes. It is typical of someone's whose foundation is literal as opposed to spiritual.

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You seem to have a very fixed definition of spirituality. I study all religions and believe all were created under God, and carry God's messages.

Astrology being a tool created by/under God. Or better said by Dr. Standley - "God is the law. Astrology is the rules, and 'the rules' are often broken."

I find it funny that you are dictating to me what my foundation is (spiritual, literal, or otherwise) - it feels very patriarchal and patronizing.

Personally, my foundation is seeking truth of spirituality through all teachings.

And yet you ignore the history and etymology which provides valuable insights into the mere interpretation of the men who have controlled Christianity originally and for a very long time - Catholic priests.

I'm merely going to remind you things I believe you already know:
Jesus was Jew that did not seek to create Christianity. He was a teacher and messenger of compassion and love. Both things this world sorely needs.

posted April 15, 2018 01:25 PM            

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Originally posted by Mkya00:
Hypatia:

For you, I would argue that your Lucifer in Aquarius is triggered because Lucifer represents the Sacred Feminine and rape, even group rape of a prostitute is the destruction of that Sacred Feminine.

Again, group rape is patriarchal mentality controlling a woman's power and own sexuality. That is the antithesis of the Sacred Feminine.

I wish our world was much more open-minded. Sex has truly become about dominance and control (patriarchy) and not about sensuality and unity or the connection to another human being (sacred feminine).

Perhaps look at other things in your own chart that represent Justice and their placements - Jupiter, Juno, maybe Iris.

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Oh no I don't need to look at other things in my chart, the interpretation of that aspect is perfect as well as the interpretation I provided for Lucifer's discovery chart but we don't have to agree.

Eros is erotic love, its a sex asteroid and lucifer in aquarius opposing that when aquarius represents groups explains perfectly my strong reaction specifically to group rape and the need for justice around that, In my chart lucifer manifests as a need for justice bc my pluto conjunct astraea in Libra falls on Kaali conjunct Ixion which trines saturn conjunct astraea in Lucifer's discovery chart.

posted April 15, 2018 01:44 PM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
WE DON'T KNOW IF LUCIFER HAS MOON IN VIRGO, I HAVE NO IDEA AT WHAT TIME IT WAS DISCOVERED. I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR ON THAT.

Personally I would not focus just on the moon in virgo and ignore the asteroids I put in as they clearly tell a story that supports the mythology of lucifer.

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Thank you, Hypatia I caught my mistake in this as well. However, I got sucked into the religious discussion that I was afraid would happen rather than the astrological one.

I am not solely focused on the Moon. We should be focused on the whole of the chart and not just individual pieces.

It's why I pointed out Ami Anne's Saturn conjunction interpretation, applying it to Astraea - "obsessively actualizing" the "virgin goddess of innocence and purity."

As I said, I think Dejanira conj. Antares opp. Nessus(r) was very telling too. The female victim gaining the power of Jupiter/Mars opposing the male abuser.

I didn't solely focus on the Moon. But our society has so many mental pitfalls. It very often tries to separate or draw lines between female sexuality and motherhood.

posted April 15, 2018 02:09 PM            

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Originally posted by SecretGeek:
What it looks like to me, is you have at least one astrological object influenced by the asteroid Lucifer so you are trying to justify it is good while simultaneously attacking Christianity and blaming Christianity on gender discrimination.

Is that a correct assessment?

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Actually, I was fine with Ami Anne's original interpretation of Lucifer.

However, as I began to ponder the reality of Lucifer vs. the mythology I attempted to offer a discussion. But, you aren't interested in discussion. You are interested in telling me:
1. I'm wrong
2. not coming from a spiritual foundation
3. attacking Christianity

Gender discrimination only exists because human beings create and perpetuate it. You provided your own historical evidence with the witch hunts, which were conducted by the church. Women are told to obey their husbands, using scripture.

As for asteroid Lucifer, you don't seem to be open to discussing another interpretation because it doesn't fit your own preconceived narrative. A narrative that you fail to see is skewed by your own worldview.

Regardless, I'm personally about seeking answers and delving into things more than I am about accepting everything I'm spoon fed. But I can only speak for me.