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Author Topic:   Asteroid Lucifer - re-examined
Mkya00
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Posts: 187
From: Hawkins, IN
Registered: Oct 2017

posted April 17, 2018 05:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mkya00     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
Lucifer has Dejanira opposite Nessus so if the person taps into that aspect of Lucifer in the context of a consensual sexual relationship I could see how some people who have lucifer strong in their chart may be into sado masochism. With angel the messenger of love trining and sextiling that opposition I can see how it can lead to protection from abuse or that energy been expressed in a loving way through a consensual sexual relationship.

More importantly it is Dejanira conj. Truth conj. Antares opp. Nessus (retrograde).

I think the energy is very different and there is strength given to Dejanira in this opposition with Truth/Antares involved.

Nessus retrograde has stronger past karmic event, and with it opposing Dejanira (female victim)/Truth/Antares... I think there is a story here that it is telling about asteroid Lucifer.

But I do applaud SecretGreek for holding the genderless notion. Because victims can be male or female, yet females typically receive the most sympathy. Male victims are rarely believed.

I wonder if he can be gender-neutral when it comes to victim-hood or if that's where his "genderless" spiel ends?

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Mkya00
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From: Hawkins, IN
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posted April 17, 2018 05:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mkya00     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SecretGeek:
A sadist won't try to mate with a sadist.

To add to this very insightful post (and I mean that)... sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists, and similar personality disorders actually recognize each other. Even if they aren't full blown and have those traits, they recognize each other.

So Greek's comment is incredibly dead on.

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hypatia238
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From: Mercury novile and parallel Pluto, Pluto septile Southnode
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posted April 17, 2018 05:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well a sadist wants someone they can control which is not another sadist; that won't work .

But I love how you pointed out that Dejanira is conjunct Antares in addition to truth, that will definitely alter the flavor of Dejanira bc Antares is tough as hell! you don't want to mess with Antares lol

So it fits more with the consensual sado masochism dynamic, Dejanira conjuncting Antares.

Or a theme of Dejanira fighting back and the truth coming out.

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hypatia238
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posted April 17, 2018 05:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This song called Fearless Motivation with a Dragon avatar on the Video made me think of Dejanira conjunct Antares! LOL I feel this is one tough B*tch!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOCZ1KqRnPc
Fearless Motivation - Revival (Epic Motivational Heroic Orchestral)

So powerful

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SecretGeek
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posted April 17, 2018 06:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGeek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
Lucifer has Dejanira opposite Nessus so if the person taps into that aspect of Lucifer in the context of a consensual sexual relationship I could see how some people who have lucifer strong in their chart may be into sado masochism. With angel the messenger of love trining and sextiling that opposition I can see how it can lead to protection from abuse or that energy been expressed in a loving way through a consensual sexual relationship.

The Luciferean opposing forces of Nessus and Dejanira likely cancel each other out so that they are neutral relative to Lucifer internally. However, they might allow a sadist to connect with Lucifer's Dejanira, potentially increasing their sadistic energy relative to their DNA.

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hypatia238
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posted April 17, 2018 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SecretGeek:
The Luciferean opposing forces of Nessus and Dejanira likely cancel each other out so that they are neutral relative to Lucifer internally. However, they might allow a sadist to connect with Lucifer's Dejanira, potentially increasing their sadistic energy relative to their DNA.

You are saying that if someone has sadistic markers (e.g. strong sado in their chart) and their chart aligns with Dejanira in Lucifer's discovery chart that it can be bad news.

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SecretGeek
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posted April 17, 2018 07:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGeek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
You are saying that if someone has sadistic markers (e.g. strong sado in their chart) and their chart aligns with Dejanira in Lucifer's discovery chart that it can be bad news.

Yes, the Sadists I checked resonate with Lucifer. It could be bad for someone that is attracted to Lucifer, if Lucifer supports and/or increases their insatiable appetite. However, it could be good for their field of choice. Maybe not morally and spiritually, but carnally. I am still checking charts though. I sense there could be a measure of deception involved, because Lucifer (if Satan) was called the father of lies.

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hypatia238
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posted April 17, 2018 07:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The thing is that Sado to me does not necessarily mean sadomasochism or sadist.

The definition of sado means a variant of chado. Examples from the Web for sado. He seeks a bed in the home of a sworn friend—a kunák in their language—named sado. And chado means 1. the Japanese tea ceremony. Word Origin. from Japanese cha or sa tea (from Chinese cha) + dō way (from Chinese tao); chanoyu literally: tea's hot water.

So I feel very hesitant to associate sado with sadomasochism as an asteroid in the first place.

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hypatia238
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posted April 17, 2018 07:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, what I have noticed in people who have Lucifer prominent in their chart, on their angles (ac, mc, ic) is that they have obsession with the truth and bringing the truth to light. They dont lie and are actually quite upfront and honest.

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hypatia238
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posted April 17, 2018 07:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SecretGeek:
Yes, the Sadists I checked resonate with Lucifer. It could be bad for someone that is attracted to Lucifer, if Lucifer supports and/or increases their insatiable appetite. However, it could be good for their field of choice. Maybe not morally and spiritually, but carnally. I am still checking charts though. I sense there could be a measure of deception involved, because Lucifer (if Satan) was called the father of lies.

Do you lie a lot and deceive? Since you have Lucifer conjunct Sun and an exact parallel from lucifer to your sun I have to ask.

I will follow my gut and personal observations based on how it plays out in transit (bringing darkness to light like in the Me too movement) and in the charts of people I know personally.

You will keep looking for negative examples of how it may manifest bc of your religious views. I haven't seen you try to look for positive examples of how it manifests at all.

Everyone has lucifer doing something in their chart and most people are not sadistic or sociopaths regardless of whether they have religion in their life or not.

I have drawn my conclusions and gained what I needed from this thread. It was a fun discussion.

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SecretGeek
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posted April 17, 2018 07:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGeek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are two kinds of truth: Absolute and relative. Relative truth is what our soul thinks absolute truth is. The difference of the two is deception. It is recorded on our conscience in our human spirit.

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SecretGeek
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posted April 17, 2018 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGeek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Do you lie a lot and deceive?"

I used to until I allowed the Holy Spirit into my life at 27 years old.

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hypatia238
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posted April 17, 2018 07:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SecretGeek:
"Do you lie a lot and deceive?"

I used to until I allowed the Holy Spirit into my life.


Well the people I know that have Lucifer on their angles are really honest and take pride in honesty, high ethical values around honesty and bringing into light corruption. You might be an exception to the rule and other things in your chart may explain that.

You have LIE CONJUNCT EXACT LUCIFER in Leo both at 11 degrees.

Asteroid Lie 26955

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SecretGeek
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posted April 17, 2018 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGeek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My Sun is about 7 degrees and Lucifer is about 12 degrees, so a little too wide for a conjunction IMO. But, I do have them parallel by 17 minutes.

Yeah, the Holy Spirit changes a person. I was 27 when my life changed. That is likely how I can show what the difference between absolute truth and relative truth, since I have experience. Not something one would want to put on their resume though. LOL

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hypatia238
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posted April 17, 2018 09:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You have:

sun in Leo at 6d59
18°31'39" N

Lucifer in Leo at 11d54
8°14'32" N

Lie in Leo at 11d31

Your Sun conjunct Lucifer are 5 degrees apart, conjunctions to the sun can be felt at a wider orb and for sure if they are parallel.

My point is that because you have an exact conjunction between Lucifer and Lie that your perception of Lucifer is influenced by this. You keep associating him with lies and I think that has more to do with your natal, you history of lying has more to do with Lucifer conjunct Lie and the fact that Lucifer parallels exact your sun. Its all connected so you view Lucifer in a negative light bc your own lucifer in your own chart is essentially afflicted with its conjunction to lie so ofcourse you don't think he brings light to darkness.

Don't get me wrong we all lie but when it comes to abuse and corruption lucifer brings light to darkness evidenced by truth on dejanira in his discovery chart. That is what I have witnessed in people that have a strong lucifer in their chart and via transit as well.

Examples: Director of my company is one of the most ethical people I have met and she has it conjunct her southnode, she runs a non profit counseling center and is great at it and highly ethical. My partner one of the most honest people I know, is a big reason why I ended up with him, has lucifer on the IC, he is also big on bringing light to corruption and raising awareness around political issues, something he does on a daily basis and is extremely passionate about. My ex lover with lucifer on his MC also very honest, high ethical values as does my partner, high awareness around corruption while must people just listen to lies of mainstream media. The person online that has lucifer and nessus on his AC, he has been quite blunt and honest about his flaws, he owns his stuff and makes no excuses for it, his radical self-honesty is hard to come by.


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SecretGeek
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posted April 17, 2018 09:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGeek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What do you think absolute truth is?

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Mkya00
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Posts: 187
From: Hawkins, IN
Registered: Oct 2017

posted April 17, 2018 10:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mkya00     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
You have:

sun in Leo at 6d59
18°31'39" N

Lucifer in Leo at 11d54
8°14'32" N

Lie in Leo at 11d31

Your Sun conjunct Lucifer are 5 degrees apart, conjunctions to the sun can be felt at a wider orb and for sure if they are parallel.

My point is that because you have an exact conjunction between Lucifer and Lie that your perception of Lucifer is influenced by this. You keep associating him with lies and I think that has more to do with your natal, you history of lying has more to do with Lucifer conjunct Lie and the fact that Lucifer parallels exact your sun.


It might explain why Secret seems to enjoy "attacking" me too. We are opposites.

My ASC is 16deg Aquarius
My Dejanira is 20deg Aquarius (1st House) ... lovely interpretation of that asteroid in 1st house
My Truth/Sun/Jupiter are conjunct in Aquarius at 22/23/24 degrees, respectively.

His Lie conj. Lucifer is interesting. It's like he is lying about the Light-bringer.

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Mkya00
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From: Hawkins, IN
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posted April 17, 2018 10:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mkya00     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
Well a sadist wants someone they can control which is not another sadist; that won't work .

But I love how you pointed out that Dejanira is conjunct Antares in addition to truth, that will definitely alter the flavor of Dejanira bc Antares is tough as hell! you don't want to mess with Antares lol

[b]So it fits more with the consensual sado masochism dynamic, Dejanira conjuncting Antares.

Or a theme of Dejanira fighting back and the truth coming out.[/B]


YES!!! To me this is the theme of Lucifer the Light-bringer from ancient, esoteric, and Masonic teachings.

I would say that Dejanira is fighting back with truth on her side and Antares (the Jupiter/Mars elements) giving her the weapons.

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SecretGeek
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posted April 17, 2018 10:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGeek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"His Lie conj. Lucifer is interesting. It's like he is lying about the Light-bringer."

The wages of sin is death. I know because I did/do plenty of it.

I have a phd in sin.

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Mkya00
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From: Hawkins, IN
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posted April 17, 2018 10:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mkya00     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SecretGeek:
"His Lie conj. Lucifer is interesting. It's like he is lying about the Light-bringer."

The wages of sin is death. I know because I did/do plenty of it.

I have a phd in sin.


I still love you. Sin is relative, as man has saw fit to create his own versions of "sin." We seem to keep adding to them.

Besides, love, compassion, and forgiveness are greater than any of man's "sins." God is the judge, not man. (But I know you know that.)

As you know, Jesus didn't hang out in the temples or with the rich folk. He hung out with the criminals, prostitutes, and outcasts.

Although you have sort of "attacked" me in this thread, I will take your sinners heart over that of any person.

"Blessings on you who are hated and persecuted..." ~Jesus, Gospel of Timothy (Gnostic Gospels)

Our society is destructive. It does not build people up, it destroys them. God was a builder before a destroyer. Even when God destroyed there was a plan in place for the aftermath/rebuilding. We don't do that.

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hypatia238
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posted April 17, 2018 10:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mkya00:
YES!!! To me this is the theme of Lucifer the Light-bringer from ancient, esoteric, and Masonic teachings.

I would say that Dejanira is fighting back with truth on her side and Antares (the Jupiter/Mars elements) giving her the weapons.


Beautifully put!

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SecretGeek
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posted April 17, 2018 10:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGeek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you. I love you to.

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SecretGeek
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posted April 17, 2018 10:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGeek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Sin is relative"

I don't believe that. Remember, I have a phd in sin.

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Mkya00
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From: Hawkins, IN
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posted April 17, 2018 11:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mkya00     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SecretGeek:
"Sin is relative"

I don't believe that. Remember, I have a phd in sin.


You don't have to believe it. You can still be loved and forgiven, your version of sin and all.

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SecretGeek
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posted April 17, 2018 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGeek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think you were earlier referring to Antares, the fixed star, being conjunct Lucifer's Dejanira along with asteroid Truth. If so, what reference do you have that makes you think Antares can be good for Dejanira, or Truth for that matter. I just checked this link out for Antares:
http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Antares.html

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