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Author Topic:   Asteroid Lucifer - re-examined
Mkya00
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From: Hawkins, IN
Registered: Oct 2017

posted April 12, 2018 08:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mkya00     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First, let me explain that I have a lot of respect for every astrologer on this forum.

However, the more I thought about the interpretations of asteroid Lucifer I felt the need to provide some (hopefully) valuable insight.

Most interpretations reference Lucifer as a "fallen angel" or point to mythology.

The etymology of the word Lucifer comes from Latin and was first translated into the Bible during Old/Middle English, and it originally meant:
"morning star, Venus in the morning sky before sunrise,"

From Google:
Old English, from Latin, ‘light-bringing, morning star,’ and "the planet Venus when it rises in the morning."

If you reference the passage in the Old Testament from Isaiah 14:12 using the Tanakh prior to the Old/Middle English translation you find:

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, That didst cast lots over the nations!"

Morning star or day star being Venus. Venus is seen in the morning during the Spring and Summer and is seen at night during Fall and Winter. (This is why the Freemasons "go dark" during the Spring/Summer and "go light" during the Fall/Winter.)

I know people will want to argue this. But it really is hard to argue with etymology prior to the Old/Middle English translations of the Bible and someone in history, a priest/preacher, connecting the word "Lucifer" to Satan (a different debate).

Here's my main thing - I believe it is possible that "Lucifer" in astrology should be interpreted as another Venus rather than as God's adversary (Satan)?

I personally have Lucifer conjunct a planet, and I have no problem with it. However, the knowledge of what Lucifer really is pushed me to offer this information.

Just figured it would be an interesting debate if we can keep it civil, and just in time for Friday the 13th... another important Masonic date.

Cheers!

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hypatia238
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From: Mercury novile and parallel Pluto, Pluto septile Southnode
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posted April 13, 2018 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have lucifer opposite eros conjunct angel.

Dont know what it means.

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Mkya00
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Posts: 166
From: Hawkins, IN
Registered: Oct 2017

posted April 13, 2018 07:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mkya00     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hypatia,

I have Lucifer conjunct Mercury, Karma, and my Anti-Vertex.

Depending on the interpretation you choose to take with Lucifer, I think Lucifer conjunct Angel could be a good thing.

Since I don't 100% hold to the myth that Lucifer = satan (God's adversary), Lucifer in truth being Venus or a light-bringer should be very beneficial when conjunct Angel.

I also question the use of the term Angel. Etymology of "Angel" doesn't mean a winged being with a halo - that's a very narrow view of the word given it's origin. It stems from Greek and means "messenger," as in "messenger from God."

I would almost say, and don't hold me to this, that Lucifer conj. Angel means you are a messenger of love and light.

/Edit: I think I misinterpreted your original message.

Angel conj. Eros still means a messenger of love.

Lucifer opposite those two... I'd have to ponder that. What is the orb and houses?

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MoonMystic
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posted April 13, 2018 09:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MoonMystic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have Lucifer cnj Iris 0°
Which may be similar to the
Lucifer/Angel cnj.

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Mkya00
Knowflake

Posts: 166
From: Hawkins, IN
Registered: Oct 2017

posted April 13, 2018 09:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mkya00     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MoonMystic:
I have Lucifer cnj Iris 0°
Which may be similar to the
Lucifer/Angel cnj.

MoonMystic:

Did you mean Iris or Isis? Isis being the original Mary and related to Venus. Or did you mean Iris from mythology the "rainbow messenger" that carries an urn of water from the River Styx?

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MoonMystic
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posted April 13, 2018 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MoonMystic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Myka00,
Iris, the "rainbow messenger" that carries an urn of water from the River Styx.

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hypatia238
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posted April 13, 2018 11:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Angel in Leo at 0d32
Eros in Leo at 1d28
Lucifer in Aquarius at 2d07

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hypatia238
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posted April 14, 2018 01:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am looking at Lucifer's Discovery chart and there are two things I find very fishy about it so far, 1. Kaali conjuncts Ixion and 2. Dejanira opposes Nessus. However, Kaali conjunct Ixion in libra trines Saturn conjunct Astraea and Dejanira opposite Nessus has astesroid angel sextile dejanira and trine nessus.

Kaali is power that can be used for good or bad but with Ixion there the chances that it will be used for bad increases. But then you have Saturn conjunct Astraea the goddess of justice trining Kaali conjunct Ixion so if that power is used for bad that person will suffer the consequences and will be held accountable by karma and or the law, there will be justice. The corruption of power or violation will not go unnoticed. Lucifer will punish the wrong doer.

In this sense asteroid Lucifer could be the person doing the punishing or possibly the person who is going to hell for abusing their power. I get more of the energy of Lucifer been an asteroid about justice though!

With Angel sextile Dejanira and trine Nessus while Dejanira and Nessus are opposing each other it adds again this protective factor like Saturn conjunct Astraea is doing to Kaali conjunct Ixion. Angel is watching Nessus and Dejanira, he is keeping an eye and trying to protect Dejanira and if he is not able to there will consequences (Saturn).

My conclusion is that Lucifer is a good asteroid in line with his role to provide justice against wrongdoings, people who abuse their power in some way.

Since I have it opposing Eros conjunct Angel, I will share how I feel it plays out with me. I see sex as very sacred and one thing I find super triggering that brings out the killer side of me is the idea of a group of men rapping a woman even and specially if she is a prostitute. The fact that you think is ok to do that to anyone specially a prostitute makes me genuinely feel they should all die instantly bc that is the lowest kind of scum in my mind, like wrath comes out of my eyes when I think of that, is like the inner Lucifer in me comes out and wants immediate justice to happen to this wrong doing and in my mind justice for that is death, you should not have the privilege to live IMO if you are capable of doing that, like seriously F you. I said that to someone in person last weekend and they asked me if that happened to me I guess bc of the passion I said it with, I have never been raped let alone by a group of men and it better not happen bc I would probably try to kill them lol. I think something does protect me strongly in this regard.

Example: Someone was psychologically abusing me as a child (pool guy) intimidating me about hurting my mom, he might have been grooming me, anyways my neighbor caught him talking to me once and fired him, she noticed I had not been going to the pool lately and said he is fired and I can start coming again. She was like an ANGEL, she was my Lucifer, I will always be grateful to her. One time he had a knife on his hand and was gesturing self-harm while smiling and talking about how he likes to self-harm. That is my creepiest memory of him.

I will post discovery chart shortly.

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hypatia238
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posted April 14, 2018 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Time of discovery unknown.

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SecretGeek
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From: Dallas
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posted April 14, 2018 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGeek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here are some more angels:

965,355,708,1348,701,14519

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hypatia238
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posted April 14, 2018 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting I have my chart ruler Pluto in Libra at 28d13 conjunct Astraea in Libra at 29d40 falling on Lucifer's Kaali conjunct Ixion.

^This reinforces how Lucifer manifests in me in the context of creating justice.

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hypatia238
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posted April 14, 2018 01:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BTW asteroid ANGEL has the love stellium in its discovery chart in GEMINI, asteroid Angel does have a message of love.

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hypatia238
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posted April 14, 2018 01:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting that group rape is what triggers my Lucifer's need for immediate justice and I have Lucifer in Aquarius which rules groups opposing Eros (erotic love) conjunct Angel (messenger of love, sacred sex)! It really fits.

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SecretGeek
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posted April 14, 2018 01:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGeek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pallas and Pluto with very little Saturn for rape.

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hypatia238
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posted April 14, 2018 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SecretGeek:
Pallas and Pluto with very little Saturn for rape.

Huh? What are you saying? There are a lot of different views out there on Pallas, a lot. I have not checked Pallas discovery chart yet so I have not formulated an opinion on pallas but I have no idea what you are talking about, oh you mean my chart? like the chances of rape are low.

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hypatia238
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posted April 14, 2018 02:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With Lucifer having Saturn square Jupiter and opposite Mars, he is willing to break the rules to achieve justice (saturn conjunct astraea) or breaks the rules if the rules shouldn't exist in the first place. He is rebellious after all, he is Lucifer but he does care about justice, he just doesn't always agree on the social norms of how to achieve justice or thinks all laws are just to start with.

Just watch the show Lucifer, I am describing that character essentially.

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arcturus90
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From: Arcturus
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posted April 14, 2018 02:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for arcturus90     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
Interesting I have my chart ruler Pluto in Libra at 28d13 conjunct Astraea in Libra at 29d40 falling on Lucifer's Kaali conjunct Ixion.

^This reinforces how Lucifer manifests in me in the context of creating justice.


what do you mean by "lucifer's kaali", please ?

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hypatia238
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posted April 14, 2018 02:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by arcturus90:
what do you mean by "lucifer's kaali", please ?

Look at Lucifer's Discovery chart above that I posted, it has kaali conjunct Ixion in the late degrees of libra trine Saturn conjunct Astraea (goddess of justice).

My pluto and astraea conjunct that in Lucifer's discovery chart.

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SecretGeek
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From: Dallas
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posted April 14, 2018 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGeek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
Huh? What are you saying? There are a lot of different views out there on Pallas, a lot. I have not checked Pallas discovery chart yet so I have not formulated an opinion on pallas but I have no idea what you are talking about, oh you mean my chart? like the chances of rape are low.

Scroll down until you get to the rapists: http://zot.net/criminalastrology.htm

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arcturus90
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posted April 14, 2018 02:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for arcturus90     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
Look at Lucifer's Discovery chart above that I posted, it has kaali conjunct Ixion in the late degrees of libra trine Saturn conjunct Astraea (goddess of justice).

My pluto and astraea conjunct that in Lucifer's discovery chart.


Ah okay, I wasn't sure you were talking about the discovery chart. thanks

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hypatia238
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posted April 14, 2018 03:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SecretGeek:
Scroll down until you get to the rapists: http://zot.net/criminalastrology.htm

Ok Lucifer's Discovery chart has Pluto square Pallas. I don't know how valid this research is, it is a theory, the sample is not large but definitely worth considering and there could be something to it. Thanks for sharing.

With this addition to the discovery chart and its possible implications I would revert back to my original interpretation that Lucifer could be the person doing the punishing who feels passionate about justice or possibly the person who is going to hell for abusing their power. Lucifer could go either way perhaps but what I feel is clear is that regardless of how the energy manifests, the side of lucifer that punishes wrongdoings (saturn conjunct astraea) or the side of lucifer that abuses its power (kaali conjunct ixion), I feel with this asteroid there is justice at the end.

Maybe how lucifer manifests in your life would depend on how Lucifer's discovery chart interacts with your natal and the aspects your lucifer makes in your chart to other asteroids. Like if you have Lucifer aspect Ixion that is probably not going to manifest in its lighter form.

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hypatia238
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posted April 14, 2018 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by arcturus90:
Ah okay, I wasn't sure you were talking about the discovery chart. thanks

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SecretGeek
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posted April 14, 2018 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGeek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Maybe how lucifer manifests in your life would depend on how Lucifer's discovery chart interacts with your natal and the aspects your lucifer makes in your chart to other asteroids."


Exactly!

I think we need to be concerned with at least two waves:

The primary wave would be the direct application to the position of the object to the natal in tropical and/or draconian. Such as, the discovery location itself relative to the angles of our other objects (frequency). The primary wave is strongest.

The secondary wave would consist of lower energy and represents an indirect level. Such as my Kaali being on Lucifer's NN. It is like a fractal wave with lower magnitude, likely at a Fibonacci interval.

The primary, secondary, and succeeding lower magnitude waves likely don't come into play unless "we" have the object invoked or someone else invokes it. So they can lie dormant but can be activated.

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SecretGeek
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posted April 14, 2018 03:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGeek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is an asteroid indirection example using Jesus and Lucifer:
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum28/HTML/004676.html

Here is Yeshuhua (inside) and Lucifer (outside) to at least show:

(1) Yeshuhua's Pallas is on Lucifer's Lilith.

(2) Yeshuhua's Gabriel is on Lucifer's Sun.

(3) Yeshuhua's NN is on Lucifer's "fallen" Venus.

(4) Yeshuhua's SN is on Lucifer's Gabriel.

(5) Yeshuhua's Michael is on Lucifer's NN.

There are other patterns but it looks like Lucifer is boxed in with nowhere to go.

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MoonMystic
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From: 🌛.🌜
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posted April 15, 2018 12:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MoonMystic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Hypatia, that's an interesting thought.
I looked @it in declinations with the
guessed time you had. My ARABIC Pt of
Spirit is near exact (parallel)
to the ASC of the
Lucifer discovery chart. For what ever
that may mean.

(Pls don't quote)

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