posted January 08, 2010 06:15 PM         

IF they are incarnate at the same time as we are, they may be on a totally different path in this lifeline. OR their chart may make it impossible to confirm them or rule them out - yet the SOUL connection can still be there. after all isn't a chart a kind of blueprint for THIS life? while it can hold clues to other lives the soul picked your birthtime for the energies it would attract through the energies available AT THAT TIME.

posted January 08, 2010 07:03 PM         

Hi Polo,

...so did you check the transits for when you two met or had a special moment? I think transits show the Cosmos touching our natal charts at the exact moment of an important event example you may see that her name asteroid or another personal asteroid was exactly conjunct your chart ruler, or your 5th or 7th house rulers or another very prominent part of your chart, especially the angles and arabic parts...use transiting personal asteroids to the other's natal chart to show the timing...

I think the very personal points, angles and parts in the natal should be checked at these times to show the synchronicities for you.

Everything we need to know about ourselves and experiences in this life is shown in our natal charts and its the directions and transits which show us the timing of these synchronous events.
The Divinity of the Universe is remarkable as you so well put....God is definitely a part of these amazing unions and the timing is shown in our charts. So we start with the natals because everything about ourselves is written there...then we check the synastry and then we check the directions/progressions and transits to show the timing of the synastric aspects.

Mystique

posted January 08, 2010 08:35 PM         

i have a twin sister you know...she is a close sm of mine,part of my soul group.she is not my TF.

Here we are just discussing the possibility of confirming TF relationships through astrology.

So...we dont hold the Truth here we´re just analysing our perspectives.

it is so few those who actually meet TF in the 3rd dimension,usually they are in aother level,and are with us only at a soul level.like IQ said,sometimes the TF choose to "embody" in our most clost SM of ours,if we need it,on a certain difficult moment of our life.

So...i also think that those who really are with the TF are blessed and only them know what they have.like some of here who are with thier TF,they know it.so we can really ask for their perspective on this.afterall..they passed thourh it all.to finally reach this point in their reincarnation.

posted January 08, 2010 08:43 PM         

quote:

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There's an old saying to the effect that a saint will not play out his chart...because he has transcended it! and i think maybe looking for twinflames in astrological connections may beg the question; we are definitely NOT all ready for that level of soul relationship, therefore the connections and compatabilities notable in two charts may be the COMPLETE WRONG way to look for a twinflame.

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Wow! Is that really a saying? Because if it is true, then this is a crucial point. Where did you hear this from? It seems to suggest what I noted before: That our natal chart shows what elements we need to bring into balance within us. Or put another way, it shows what instinctual impulses we have that need to be brought under conscious control so that we can evolve and expand our soul's awareness, opening the third eye.

For instance, synastry compatibility may show how people get along with one another instinctively, but this compatibility may do nothing to encourage growth and development, instead, it may cause the couple to live together comfortably in their flaws and sickness. They may feel the joy from being so much alike, while they both remain to be unhealthy people. Just like the example on another thread of the two crack-heads.

Each of us need to achieve our own internal balance to properly develop the soul, as the saints have done, before we can relate Soul to Soul with one another.

quote:

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IF they are incarnate at the same time as we are, they may be on a totally different path in this lifeline. OR their chart may make it impossible to confirm them or rule them out - yet the SOUL connection can still be there. after all isn't a chart a kind of blueprint for THIS life? while it can hold clues to other lives the soul picked your birthtime for the energies it would attract through the energies available AT THAT TIME.

---

I'll be damned! Why didn't I think of that? That point is so obvious it should have slapped me in the face a long time ago. If it had been a snake it woulda bit me.

We are talking of the "Immortal Soul!" That which is eternal and unaffected by either Space or Time. One's life as a human being is a transitory thing and the natal chart is a measure of that, so what are we doing over here? We cannot use temporal tools to measure eternal things. No wonder we are having such confusion. We are searching for the evidence of eternal life within the span of a single human lifetime. Because of this fact I think we definitely need to reevaluate our method of searching. Clearly we have come to a point where the answers don't match the evidence and so we need new tools.

Solving this problem is great for all of us in terms of stretching our minds and beliefs into higher states of conscious awareness. We are venturing into a new area where traditional astrology may not be able to follow, but many of us have had actual Soulful experiences that continue to reaffirm that we have not yet asked the right questions.

quote:

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so unless your twinflame is your astrotwin as well...how COULD they be recognizable thru the chart? maybe ACTUAL twins and astrotwins are our real TFs? hope this is not all too out there to make sense or that i am expressing it clearly enough...?

---

posted January 08, 2010 08:51 PM         

see how amazing transits me and bf were having the day we met...this confirms our soul conection,even not being a TF.

Tr Venus cj MY nOsiris(stands for perfect SM partner)
Tr Anna cj Tr Isis cj nKiron
Tr Sun exact cj Node ( point torwards the coming of a important man in my life)
Tr DNA cj Isis ( stands for perfect wife SM)
Tr JONNHY and AMOR cj my nJOHNPAUL
Tr UNION cj nFELICITAS
tR URANUS cj nAmor ( sudden changes in love)
TR ISIS/ANNA cj my nAnna
Tr Saturn cj nValentine (serious committment conected with True Love)

Tr Moon cj HIS nIsis/Osiris ( moon stands for feminine figure,the ying energy)
Tr KARMA cj his nJohnny
Tr Osiris cj nKARMA
Tr Valentine/Pluto cj cj his nNeptune ( true love tied with transformation and the dream/idealization,spiritual conection).

you know what is really outstanding?is that in draconic charts we see past life conections,,,see what was being activated the time we met...

Tr Anna/Isis cj HIS D.DNA and D.AMOR
Tr Hanna cj his D.Uranus
Tr Jup cj D.Moon

Tr JohnPaul cj MY D.DNA
Tr Valentine/Pluto cj my D.Amor
Tr Moon cj D.DSC
Tr KARMA cj D.JOHNNY
Tr URANUS cj D.Hanna
Tr VENUS cj D.Valentine
Tr Anna/Isis cj D.Venus

See?obviously showing our strong bond,that came from the past.our names activated by DNA,and love asteroids...

posted January 08, 2010 09:09 PM         

it is only to our own Egos that this is real.

So the answer always lies in our Higher Selves.it is as simple as asking our Higher Self...and we know our answers,right from our heart....through intuition.

it is not racional,or logical or explainable.it simply...IS.

but it is from within us,that we can extend that confirmation to what is with "out".

i still believe that we can see it through astrology,but not as the unique instrument.that is why i talk about past lifes.as we are eternal..we cannot see this trhough an estatic tool.draconic charts enter here,and maybe also the sidereal?

This is from our real life experience...:

John only met me cause his Higher Self showed him who i was.
after some unusual synchros ( from both sides)he opened a page on the net,similar to Hi5. he never ever did that cause he thought he would never find someone special through this type of things..he kep wandering there and when he was about to give up,he found my picture.
something in my eyes caught his attention,he said later to me that he HAD to see all my photos.something was pulling him to.
as i was not from his nearby place ( we+re away) he thought to send a PM but gave up,thinking why would i answer to him,a complete stranger?
he went to bed.
that night he dreamt of me.he heard my voice too.
he was lying in bed and i appeared and looked at him.and asked him if i could hugh him. he felt our hugh with all his senses.
immediately when he woke up in the morning,he sent me a PM asking to chat a bit.

from all i could pick,i just chose him to give my msn adress.it was only with him who i chat for the next entired 3 months,hours straight.until we met.
that day after meeting,he was almost entering the train and asked me a hugh.
So..i hughed him...the strange thing is that...i couldnt stop hughing him with all the strenght i had.
i didnt knew why,but it was the most special moment i had in my life till then.i was hughing him like no tomorrow would happen.

exactly how he dreamt.

posted January 08, 2010 09:24 PM         

quote:

---

..so did you check the transits for when you two met or had a special moment? I think transits show the Cosmos touching our natal charts at the exact moment of an important event example you may see that her name asteroid or another personal asteroid was exactly conjunct your chart ruler, or your 5th or 7th house rulers or another very prominent part of your chart, especially the angles and arabic parts...use transiting personal asteroids to the other's natal chart to show the timing...

---

No, I did not check because back then I knew nothing of astrology beyond Sun signs. It was this experience that lead me to look deeper. I only remember the moth was March and the date may have been the 15th or something.

quote:

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Rising Sign for that cutie?

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Rising sign for "What" cutie Ami Ann? Who are we talking about here? Did I miss a past post or something?

quote:

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I am definitely with my TF. I don't think it will work out in this lifetime but he is my TF for sure.

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How do you know for sure Lara?

quote:

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Here we are just discussing the possibility of confirming TF relationships through astrology.

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Yes, or whether we need some other new method to do so objectively.

quote:

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it is so few those who actually meet TF in the 3rd dimension

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Yes, you are So So right, but if someone actually has achieved this and can authenticate it objectively they shall be a great light to the world. These people, if they exist, can also teach us and show us the way as well. I believe this knowledge, if properly handled and understood, would be the catalyst for the evolution of consciousness for the entire world! maybe we, here at L.L. are the pioneers. As Obama would say during his campaign "We are the one's that We've been waiting for!"

quote:

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So...i also think that those who really are with the TF are blessed and only them know what they have.like some of here who are with thier TF,they know it.so we can really ask for their perspective on this.afterall..they passed thourh it all.to finally reach this point in their reincarnation.

---

Remember this quote; I just made it up. It's a Polo C. quote: If you know, then show. What does this mean? Each one teach one. For instance, I am not so magnificent in the kitchen. I can scramble eggs and fry bacon, but I cannot bake a cake. Now, if you yourself Know how to bake a cake, then you can explain it to me in a way that will allow me to do it as well. This process is called "Teaching."

If someone is actually in a Twin Flame relationship then they can tell you how they achieved it so that you can too. I don't know if I am in one or not. I am trying to find ways to be certain. I feel that I am. I would like to hope that I am. The way it is describe in articles matches what I have experienced, but I honestly, I am not sure how credible all of that is.

What I CAN confirm is that what they describe and what I have experienced is either the same or similar, but maybe neither of us actually have what is believed to be a Twin Flame relationship. I have an e-book written by Karen Crystal entitled "The Twin Soul Survival Guide" and it was very informative. I sent her an email asking her opinion on how she felt astrology impacted Twin Flames. She responded by saying that she knew nothing of astrology.

All I am saying is this. Everything happens for a reason. Whether we can see what the reason is or not, there is always one. Why? Because the reason is the Cause and there can be no effect without a cause; there can be no event without a reason for it.

What is the cause or the reason for one person to have crystal clear insight into the psyche of another. How and why does causality align events in such a way that repeated coincidences happen that bring two people together without their own conscious influence. How is everything interconnected? Why is it that way? What is the purpose? All of these need to be addresses when we discuss the eternal nature of the Soul and the function of Twin Flame relationships.

posted January 08, 2010 09:33 PM         

I just feel it, see it, live it. I have had one hell of an intense karmic fast track life so far and we are both old souls who have reached this point in our existence where we merged.
Unfortunately, he is afraid of his higher self recognition with my higher self - and i am totally fearless, so it's a nightmare combination!!!

posted January 09, 2010 04:11 AM         

"So...wouldnt our chart with the TF of ours be always different from other TF couples also?"

Yes and No.

Yes - because we are all unique.

No - because the definition of twinflames (and astrology) has to be consistent. There must be some basic thing they all have in common. Maybe it is the spark of divinity as Polo mentioned. (The question remains if divinity is really being seen in the charts though).

How to solve this conflict?
Looking for unique, yet consistent connection?

In my personal view I would expect a very tight interconnection between natal and synastry.
A pattern that is being made in the natals (and that hopefully fit each other) that gets repeated in the same or complimentary ways in synastry.

Just an example:

natal:
his Sun conjunct Saturn
her Moon conjuncts Saturn

synastr:
his Saturn trines her Moon
her Saturn squares his Sun

This was of course only one example. There have to be many more of these hits.

In the very least that woud indicate complimentary souls; irregular pieces that fit together.

I don´t know though if that is a sole indicator of twinflames. I do think this is the basis for attraction as well as compatibility in a broader sense (in this sense compatibility is not always about perfect harmony; let`s say he has mars conjunct Pluto, she has Venus square Pluto and the synastry shows Venus in 8th house, Pluto in 7th house and Venus-Pluto-opposition, doesn`t sound really harmonious to me; but they fit together like key and lock)

posted January 09, 2010 04:14 AM         

quote:

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Again, the confirmation of twin flames will be through dream recalls and inexplicable synchronicities.

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Yes , I agree. We have experienced many such things. Question: What is a Draconic Chart? I don't think I have ever done one of those, but I see it mentioned here quite frequently.

quote:

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Stuff like that is necessary to prove twin flames.

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Not many, if any of the people whom I know in real life, have ever experienced these things. They can't relate! Because it is happening so obviously in my own situation, I am finding difficulty in accepting that more never experience it for themselves.

posted January 09, 2010 04:15 AM         

No, I don`t think that is a good idea.
We are all human and not perfect thinkers and feelers.
It may be that the Higher Self wants you to believe that someone is your Twin for some purposes, when in fact he or she isn`t.
Maybe they are with their Twins, I do believe them.
But I am also human and easily misled, possibly in both directions.

posted January 09, 2010 04:16 AM         

"Exactly! How can we know for sure that these couples are TF. How can we objectively prove it? If we can't we will still be unable to build a bridge to higher truth. Everything will change with subjective opinions. We have to find a way to determine it beyond what someone thinks or feels."

posted January 09, 2010 04:21 AM         

"there's an old saying to the effect that a saint will not play out his chart.."

I don`t believe that.
As long as he is bound to this mortal shell (jeez, what is doing Lestat in my head for now? lol), his chart will reflect him correctly.

BUT he may have found "higher" expressions for certain aspects.

Example:
Mars square Pluto

Of course it can be expressed as inclination to cruelty, brutality and murder.

BUT the energy it provides (which is really at the core of the aspect; an overwhelming energy to transform, in what way ever), can also be used for the purpose of helping others who cannot help themselves. Just think of Mother Teresa.
She needed this aspect actually (or a similiar one); because it gave her the energy she needed.

IQ,

posted January 09, 2010 04:35 AM         

quote:

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BUT the energy it provides (which is really at the core of the aspect; an overwhelming energy to transform, in what way ever), can also be used for the purpose of helping others who cannot help themselves. Just think of Mother Teresa.
She needed this aspect actually (or a similiar one); because it gave her the energy she needed.

---

That makes sense to me. In essence, it is sort of close to what I mentioned before... That our natal chart shows our instinctive impulses, but these all need to be balanced and fall under our conscious control so that all of our energy can be focused and directed toward serving the greater good.

posted January 09, 2010 07:50 AM         

DD

i know what you mean..we cannot use other´s chart to play guinnie pig..my mistake.

i talked about it cause ir emembered VenusdeIndia talking about her regressions,she knew a lot of detailed information about her past lives with her Twin.that is why i still think that is a major factor,on confirming the TF.

Polo

i think the world is already transforming itself..i believe in 2012 it will happen that evolution of counscious to Higher levels. and i think that those who meet their TF in 3rd Dimension are the ones who already are into higher forms of that same counsciounsness.

Draconics are a type of chart that you can see -astro-extended charts-Zodiac:choose warning RACONIC.

draconic charts shows our probable past life,before this present one.usually SM and other Higher type of Relationship couples have tight cj/op between the natals/draconics.specially angles.karmic and lover asteroids.

this was IQ´s discovering along with his pioneer studyings with asteroids.

posted January 09, 2010 10:10 AM         

By now there are a lot of authors who have been writing about Draconic charts, including Robert Blashke, Pamela Crane, Kim Falconer, Bette Denlinger and so on.

http://www.solsticepoint.com/dragontxt.htm
http://horoscopicastrologygroup.com/2007/03/22/secrets-of-the-zodiac/
http://www.falconastrology.com/draconic.html
http://www.astrologycosmobiology.com.au/draconic_chart.html

As far as I know, this was the first thread, started on Draconic zodiac here on LL.
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/010593.html

There are some more of course:
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/018318.html
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/017864.html
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/013843.html
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/016931.html
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/020155.html

One more thought:
they say the Draconic chart is lunar based, as it is based on the lunar Nodes.

But I was thinking:

The nodes are actually the meeting point of Sun and Moon, The Moon's Nodes are the points where the orbit of the Moon around the Earth crosses that of the Earth around the Sun.
So it is actually a coming together / melting of Sun and Moon, with Earth being in the mix, too. (Hey the divine trinity again!).

With Sun and Moon being the "basic" illustrations of YANG and YIN energy (of course there are others, too), the nodal axis and the Draconic charts are an expression of this unity between YANG and YIN, too. The meeting point, or maybe even more, the melting point.
maybe in that way the Draco charts may give even more clues to soulconnections (soulmates or even twinflames) than the tropical chart alone, as the tropical chart is only based on the rotation of the earth around the Sun, so it definitely has YANG symbolism, while the YIN counterpart is not part of it (EARTH of course is included though).

posted January 09, 2010 03:06 PM         

excellent findings

Birth time - exactly - Ascendants either conjunct same sign, trine or Ascendants/Personal angles in same degrees...

Dream recalls - seeing the same person in your dreams for years before re-uniting physicaly.When you are together having the same dreams before life altering events

posted January 09, 2010 03:23 PM         

actually I think you were the only one who was still on topic.

I doN´t know about his rising. Aquarius was one that crossed my mind, too.

posted January 09, 2010 10:20 PM         

quote:

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Twin Flames will have aspects from Natal Ascendants and Draconic Ascendants as well.

---

posted January 09, 2010 10:29 PM         

I'd include the opposition

after all, it's also Ascendants conjunct each other's Descendants

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted January 10, 2010 07:07 AM         

yes, you are right.

I kind of think of the conjunction / opposition as complimentary aspects, so when I mention one, I also include the other.