posted January 19, 2017 08:58 AM              

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted January 19, 2017 09:05 AM              

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Originally posted by nordicsoul:
i DO NOT LIKE mars transiting his 8 cusp and aspecting his sun that day... nooooo..

someone with mars from 12 conjunct 1st house cusp trine his ruler sun from 10 house and moon from 4th? hum, can we say that he express FOR THE COLLECTIVE unconscious anger and the fighting spirit. he also become a vehicle for the security needs of his home or country.

his neptune in 2nd. lol.. no wonder nobody knows how much he really has..

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All great points, Nordic. You're right, although Mars already sep from sq his Sun, Chiron sq it exactly, and Mars "opens" his 8th house exact, it is true that it looks a little scary.

I appreciate all the posts here and I will try to address all of them, in the meantime, keep digging

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted January 19, 2017 12:55 PM            

What do you make of that Ceres-Pluto opposition and Moon-Saturn quincunx in his natal? I know many will consider those minor, but I'm not so sure?

posted January 19, 2017 01:22 PM            

Better Stress management (or some good blood-pressure medications? LOL)

I DO wish him many Blessings, and Much Luck Going Forward

posted January 19, 2017 04:09 PM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Interesting point about Jupiter. Jupiter in this chart is a 5th house matter. Over there (2nd house Libra) shows wealth coming from parents (Sun and Moon opp by Wedge, 4th and 10th) and impacting/creating influential relationships. Neptune in the 2nd is fluctuating wealth and speculations. For his chart, along with Mars, Jupiter sustains what I believe to be the main focus of his chart: the 10th/4th axis with Sun/Moon opp on nodal axis with Uranus; Venus/Saturn also serves this opp. That is a great point about Saturn in the 11th as a source of ambition and concern for being acknowledged as an authority in groups, and with Venus, MC ruler, even more pronounced.
I'm inclined to agree with Aries though, personally I see the chart and the man as being overprotected by parents/family, overprotected childhood, rather than the other way around. However, all attempts at arrogance and deceit would have been sanctioned by peers (other children) early on. Thank you, I just added more ideas to what you inspired me.

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posted January 20, 2017 11:23 AM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
All great points, Nordic. You're right, although Mars already sep from sq his Sun, Chiron sq it exactly, and Mars "opens" his 8th house exact, it is true that it looks a little scary.

I appreciate all the posts here and I will try to address all of them, in the meantime, keep digging

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Thanks LeeLo,

I just noticed jupiter transiting sun almost exact today (applying)and moon as a counteraspect to the aflictions of chiron and mars.

not so positive sun AC ruler quincunx AC

something that called my attention was to see transit uranus sextile north node exact. that reinforce the natal conjunction theme. I suspect, not that this would be surprising anyway, but he is to fullfill the uniqueness and uranian quality that characterize him. we should be expecting some surprised as part of his mission???

posted January 20, 2017 11:28 PM            

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Trump’s executive order declares...

...for government agencies, “to the maximum extent permitted by law,” to “waive, defer, grant exemptions from, or delay the implementation of any provision or requirement of the Act that would impose a fiscal burden...or a cost, fee, tax, penalty, or regulatory burden on individuals, families, healthcare providers, health insurers, patients, recipients of healthcare services, purchasers of health insurance, or makers of medical devices, products, or medications.”

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posted January 20, 2017 11:37 PM            

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Omen or ominous herald. Leading to death. Thief. Conman. Bad or lack of diplomacy. Blocked roads. Noise. Scandal. Gossip. Mockery. Indiscretion. Infantilism (Hermetic - Hermes - main attributes).

All talk, no action. Unintelligent yet talkative. Mentally ill or unstable. (mind) Erratic. Twitting. Two-faced. Liar. Groper (hands). Traitor. Cheater. Fugitive. Lewd. Scandalous. Inconsistent. Histrionic. Provocative. Irresponsible. Socialite. Division. Diversion. Sellout. Disloyal. Cynicism. Ridicule. Demagogy. Rhetoric. Pettiness. Blather.

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You gave a fine list of leaders with strong Jupiter/Saturn/Pluto. Any examples of Gemini leaders exhibiting the darker elements to the point where it hampered their ability to lead?

posted January 21, 2017 05:07 PM            

In the less evolved native, Cancerian need for protection can cause him to manipulate people, which he can do easily since he naturally has the ability to tune in to people's feelings. The same need for protection can cause him to start wars and sic people on its perceived enemies. Such a person takes everything personally and doesn't forget any slight. The native will demonize its enemies in order to strip them of any potential of eliciting sympathy. Even the notion of building a "wall" to keep illegal immigrants out fits in with Cancerian's need for a shell to protect itself.

It's no accident that the rise of fascism in the 1930s coincided with the 20+ year transit of Pluto in Cancer. Though the entrance of Pluto in Leo coincided with the start of WWII, the groundwork had been laid during Pluto in Cancer.

posted January 21, 2017 08:56 PM            

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Originally posted by peony:
I'm not a historian, but I think Trump is the only president-elect who had the entire establishment, including his own party, the deep state, the intel community, and the corporate media against him, which is indicative of a Sun-Saturn opposition.

Saturn-Pluto cycles are linked to war, terrorism, and severe economic constrictions, but since the U.S. has been at war continuously for decades, that may not be a meaningful prediction. But, it's likely we'll see an economic and/or political crisis that Trump will have to deal with given the upcoming Saturn-Pluto conjunction beginning at the end of 2018, transiting the U.S. 2H (Sibley chart) at the same time as it opposes Trump's natal Venus-Saturn conjunction.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Beautiful_Light:
Great points, thank you. Personally, the Saturn opp Sun transit was extremely tough for me, so knowing that I was quite worried for him. But he seems to have dealt with all that pretty well. Would you say Saturn opp Venus would be of a more personal nature?

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Well, Trump is coming in at a time when the country is hurting, as well as facing economic issues that have never been resolved since the 2008 banking crisis. I think that's what the Sun-Saturn opposition is speaking to. Sun-Saturn transits in an individual chart are about facing reality, among other things. So, I think the Saturn transits to his Sun and Moon are why he's tuned in to the nation's ills. On the negative side, his Sun-Uranus conjunction in Gemini suggests to me a trickster quality to Trump, that and the Mercury-Neptune square, but on a more positive note, Gemini is perceptive and a quick study.

Without having substantial data regarding public figures, I'm not sure about the answer to your question. But, in my opinion, I think it is difficult to separate "personal" from "public" when it comes to world leaders or influential public figures.

What comes to mind is President Obama's 2008 presidential campaign. He was undergoing a Pluto transit in opposition to natal Venus. As we know, his opponent in the 2008 race was Hillary Clinton, who as you may already know has a natal Venus-Pluto square. It seems to me this is an example of a transit being obviously about his political life and yet personal also if you recall the nature of the Clinton campaign's attacks.

posted January 21, 2017 09:15 PM            

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Originally posted by Belage:
A lot of Cancer in a chart can be a marker for despotism and fascism.

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posted January 21, 2017 09:33 PM            

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Originally posted by peony:
I agree that there is a correlation between Pluto and fascism, but that despotism or dictators is ascribed to Leo.

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I say temporarily because Pluto can be a tricky planet. At first, it empowers when it makes contact, and then, it proceeds to systematically destroy until the planet or sign it touches goes through a death process and gets reborn again, for better or for worse.

posted January 21, 2017 10:53 PM            

quote:

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On the negative side, his Sun-Uranus conjunction in Gemini suggests to me a trickster quality to Trump

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Another manifestation could be the **SURPRISE** result of the election. Everyone thought he was going to lose, then **SURPRISE** he won. Thus his election, and Presidency is viewed as a shock to the establishment, as they never took him seriously. IMO, in such an environment the more positive side of Uranus will come out as its revolutionary energy was allowed expression.

quote:

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Without having substantial data regarding public figures, I'm not sure about the answer to your question. But, in my opinion, I think it is difficult to separate "personal" from "public" when it comes to world leaders or influential public figures.

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4th house is private life. 10th house is public life. This is still true. In the US with its "FREE PRESS" this line is blurred. However, in the UK, which has strict privacy laws, there is definitely a distinction between private and public life. Eg. The Royals family have private lives and a public profile. In the notorious column there was Hitler & Stalin BIG personalities who managed to separate the private from the public.

posted January 21, 2017 11:06 PM            

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I agree that there is a correlation between Pluto and fascism, but that despotism or dictators is ascribed to Leo.

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Do we know what we're talking about here?

Hitler, Franco, Mussolini were the Fascists. Franco groomed Juan Carlos to succeed him. Hitler was a fan of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, kept his German aristocracy intact, desired a grand global alliance with the British Empire. Mussolini was deposed by the King of Italy. All the Fascist leaders were in love with the old systems, and kept them unharmed. That is not Plutonian behavior. Stalin was not a Fascists but his communist revolution THAT was Plutonian, not the fascist experiment in western Europe.

posted January 21, 2017 11:15 PM            

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I say temporarily because Pluto is a tricky planet. At first, it empowers when it makes contact, and then, it proceeds to systematically destroy until the planet or sign touches goes through a death process and gets reborn again, for better or for worse.

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Pluto isn't tricky at all.

Pluto is a planet of power and revolution. Pluto will give you the power to destroy Saturn's outdated structures. Caveats:

posted January 21, 2017 11:40 PM            

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Originally posted by Nine:
Pluto isn't tricky at all.

Pluto is a planet of power and revolution. Pluto will give you the power to destroy Saturn's outdated structures. Caveats:

1. You MUST destroy the old system and replace it with something revolutionary (completely different)
2. You aren't allowed to use Pluto's power for selfish ends.

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Most of the people who are harnessing Pluto's power are doing so for ego gratification or selfish ends.

Pluto is also a planet that symbolizes death of some sort. Pluto/Hades rules the underworld.

Revolution? Not so much, though it could be said that death is a form of revolution as it is the ultimate change. But Uranus to me symbolizes revolution more than Pluto. After all, Uranus was discovered around the time of the American and French revolutions which were a turning point in human consciousness. Pluto wasn't discovered until more than a century later, around the time of the making of the atomic bomb...which can inflict death on a scale never seen before.

posted January 21, 2017 11:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Nine:
Another manifestation could be the **SURPRISE** result of the election. Everyone thought he was going to lose, then **SURPRISE** he won. Thus his election, and Presidency is viewed as a shock to the establishment, as they never took him seriously. IMO, in such an environment the more positive side of Uranus will come out as its revolutionary energy was allowed expression.

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It remains to be seen going forward, but already he's been underestimated in winning the election as you point out. I say this as someone who didn't support or vote for him and who was just as surprised as everyone else. This election has been a good lesson for me which is that hard Saturn transits, in this case Saturn to Sun and Moon did not prevent Trump from ascending to the presidency. Secondly, the elevated NN in conjunction with his Sun must have exerted a powerful benefit influence in his favor.

Speaking of Uranus and surprises, he called out the entire ruling establishment in his inaugural speech! Yet, in contradiction to a populist message in that speech, he just signed an executive order overturning a mortgage fee cut that helped new FHA and VA loan home buyers.

quote:

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Originally posted by Nine:
4th house is private life. 10th house is public life. This is still true. In the US with its "FREE PRESS" this line is blurred. However, in the UK, which has strict privacy laws, there is definitely a distinction between private and public life. Eg. The Royals family have private lives and a public profile. In the notorious column there was Hitler & Stalin BIG personalities who managed to separate the private from the public.

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Nine, I think you're making a different point, but thanks for your comment. I'm thinking of the public and private manifestations of a transit in the life of a public figure, as illustrated by the Obama example, aside from house positions. Probably heresy, but interesting.

posted January 22, 2017 12:07 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Nine:
Pluto is a planet of power and revolution.

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Pluto equates with power, agree. But Uranus and Uranus-Pluto cycles correlate with revolutions - Pluto empowering the revolutionary impulses of Uranus, and Uranus liberating the Plutonic energies of the unconscious or shadow, in other words, a mutual activation.

posted January 22, 2017 12:15 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
Pluto is also a planet that symbolizes death of some sort. Pluto/Hades rules the underworld.

Revolution? Not so much, though it could be said that death is a form of revolution as it is the ultimate change. But Uranus to me symbolizes revolution more than Pluto. After all, Uranus was discovered around the time of the American and French revolutions which were a turning point in human consciousness. Pluto wasn't discovered until more than a century later, around the time of the making of the atomic bomb...which can inflict death on a scale never seen before.

Events around the time of a planet discovery tells us about the nature of the planet.

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posted January 22, 2017 02:32 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Nine:
Do we know what we're talking about here?

Stalin was not a Fascists but his communist revolution THAT was Plutonian, not the fascist experiment in western Europe.

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The October Revolution in Russia took place in 1917, during a Saturn-Neptune conjunction and Saturn opposing Uranus. Briefly, to be expected, Uranus, the planet of revolution, is an integral part of the configuration. Saturn/Uranus is seen in the contradictory authoritarian flavor of enforced "freedom." Neptune/Saturn/Uranus is seen in an attempt at creating a political system (Saturn-Uranus)based on the ideals of common ownership of the means of production and social equality (Neptune).

The Pluto transit to Russia's Sun correlated with the fall of the Soviet Union in December, 1991, which was predicted by astrologer, Liz Greene.

I make the connection between Pluto and fascism based on the following, although to be precise this is a Saturn-Pluto manifestation: Pluto was discovered in 1930. The Saturn-Pluto opposition from 1930 to 1933 correlated with the rise of Hitler and the Nazi Party in Germany.

posted January 22, 2017 07:42 AM            

But I doubt it's gonna be in a good way right away....

Now we see all these things about the media, and the fight about who tells the truth. Well for me it is obvious who tells the truth, but hopefully it will lead towards some kind of showdown, where the public just cannot take it any longer... and then THAT will bring a change, hopefully for the better.

posted January 22, 2017 07:48 AM              

I suppose that is another meaning of that Moon/Pallas opp Mars in synastry, and the Moon/Mars theme I mentioned in regards to the combined charts. What I forgot to mention was that there was an actual Moon in Scorpio/Pisces Mars trine yesterday, which remarkably mirrors the siamese Moon/Mars trine in Trump vs USA. Another important resonance to that is his own Sun/Moon opp.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted January 22, 2017 07:56 AM              

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...