posted May 16, 2015 02:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
I don't understand this statement?

I think the fact that others are struggling to accept that I have made peace with my past, says more about others than myself.

But, I done it for me. Acceptance is always nice, but I've come through worse than rejection!

---

posted May 16, 2015 02:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
I don't understand this statement?

I think the fact that others are struggling to accept that I have made peace with my past, says more about others than myself.

But, I done it for me. Acceptance is always nice, but I've come through worse than rejection!

---

Forgive my overstepping my bounds for a moment here, but I'm going to grab my clipboard and virtually place you upon my couch. Feel free to get up at any time, but I feel you could use the perspective.

This post is not peace. This is not acceptance. This is the denial that emerges from the inability to accept; the inability to cope. Now, it very well MAY be the wording of your post; I'm perfectly able to accept that -- in fact, I'd be glad for it. But, going merely off of that post, this is what I determine without knowing anything further.

You were given roles, but you did not have to embody them. You could have stated 'he tried to make me X, Y, and Z'. You can even have sympathy for what was clearly a mentally ill and emotionally disturbed man. You can also seek understanding, astrologically-speaking, to continue with your healing.

I feel the disconnect occurred when you showed, not only acceptance, but appreciation, by your words, 'this overtook any moral, spiritual, or sensible constraints'. This is too logical, too plain, too devoid of any emotion. This isn't acceptance or understanding, but distance -- AND I DON'T BLAME YOU. There are several people here in relationships (including myself) which transcend traditional moral, spiritual, and 'sensible constraints'. It's uncomfortable to lump these disparate events in any way. One is abusive and tragic, the others may be innovative, and for entirely different reasons, between consenting adults.

posted May 16, 2015 02:31 PM            

considering the swathes of threads on abusive people, I did not think this would be inappropriate.

I am not 4 any longer, so not sure how that is an issue.

Anyway, my healing should not be in question.
That is not the purpose of this thread.

The fact that people are implying, or outright telling me that my mind is still distorted, is really quite insulting.

I done the work. Some is ongoing, but the big dragons are slain. And my perception is honest.

posted May 16, 2015 02:36 PM            

The threads you may be referencing are regarding abusive relationships between consenting adults. That's apples and oranges from victimised children. It simply is due to the nature of human psychology.

If you cannot understand, or perceive that, then this sort of thread may not be appropriate for this forum. There is an empathetic disconnect here between your post and this forum.

Those who have contributed, please do offer your input here. Would you like to continue discussing this matter? Can you do so in a purely astrological fashion? I would never close a thread that is enjoyed or appreciated by the forum, but I suspect this may be crossing some boundaries, even still.

posted May 16, 2015 02:38 PM            

he has intercepted aries/libra in his 6th/12th houses.

aries/libra = ASC/DSC axis = me/us feeling mixed with 6th/12th houses.

it looks quite interesting and i don't know how to put it but it gives me the feeling that he just doesn't know how to serve,help,assist someone and doesn't know how to stop at me and you so goes the wrong way for us?

posted May 16, 2015 02:43 PM            

Voix de la Mer, I can understand finding the "humanity" in your abuser seems to be an important step now for you; however, your therapy should continue, for this cannot and will not be the conclusion of such a therapy. You will at some point understand that the relationship between you and such a man does not matter, it is not personalized, from his point of view; for child abusers, the child is just a sexual object and it's their status as "child" that matters, not who they are, it is impersonal. This is the core of such a severe psychopathic sexual deviation. Love is out of the question.

Because it is so impersonal, it also means he didn't want to hurt you or whatever he wanted, in particular; it was not directed at you, specifically; you are free from this man, untouched. Only those who love you and SEE YOU (and saw you as you were, a child) can touch you.

Let his deeds wash like water. I hope you understand discussing the synastry between an abuser and his victim is a very sensitive issue - there is a message in this to other abused children and it is important for you to consider: what message do you want to convey? In my opinion, the synastry between you and this man does not matter, not as you put it. As a child, you were a heroine: it was in your destiny to encounter a monster, a demon, and to survive, to overpower him, to win and become the woman you are today. This is the story of child abuse. I am a psychologist and pedophiles are sick people, yes; I also know we are sometimes "demons" (metaphorically speaking) born to bring destruction and pain; or all of us doing this sometimes, to others, at some point in our lives. I am choosing to speak from the perspective of the child now, when I call this man the monster, the dragon, you had to meet as a child and survive. We can look at his natal chart, to see astrological markers for child abuse.

I am sorry if my words hurt you in any way, but suggesting that someone like this can actually have feelings and love for a child, any child in such a situation is the wrong path to understanding these issues. It is the opposite of it: it's a "purely sexual" deviation, so ferocious, that it goes beyond any instinctual (paternal, most people have protective instincts towards children in general) emotional, physical, social considerations; it is even beyond survival (of the species) instincts. Only considering the selfishness in it...the degree of selfishness is unimaginable for the most average person, with an average brain. These people are self-gratifying psychopaths; their brain activity is literally pathological. I am sorry, dear, I have to speak the truth about this.

BTW, thank you so much for sharing your story with us, it is so important for all of us!
With the synastry, are you trying to understand/find certain markers in your chart pointing to this experience for you?

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

LeeLoo's Esotericorner

posted May 16, 2015 02:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Forgive my overstepping my bounds for a moment here, but I'm going to grab my clipboard and virtually place you upon my couch. Feel free to get up at any time, but I feel you could use the perspective.

This post is not peace. This is not acceptance. This is the denial that emerges from the inability to accept; the inability to cope. Now, it very well MAY be the wording of your post; I'm perfectly able to accept that -- in fact, I'd be glad for it. But, going merely off of that post, this is what I determine without knowing anything further.

You were given roles, but you did not have to embody them. You could have stated 'he tried to make me X, Y, and Z'. You can even have sympathy for what was clearly a mentally ill and emotionally disturbed man. You can also seek understanding, astrologically-speaking, to continue with your healing.

I feel the disconnect occurred when you showed, not only acceptance, but appreciation, by your words, 'this overtook any moral, spiritual, or sensible constraints'. This is too logical, too plain, too devoid of any emotion. This isn't acceptance or understanding, but distance -- AND I DON'T BLAME YOU.

Your words are heartbreaking, Voix. Do you blame the kind, genuine, loving folks here to have their hearts broken by them?

---

OK Aubyanne. You're on.

First, I DID embody them. I was prepared to adapt to any role given to me to be loved. My mother taught me perfection.
This fed into the roles I was given by my stepfather, and created a huge amount of energy with which I could fulfil what was expected of me.

I said before: these are the roles I was given. I executed them well. Fear, is also a powerful motivation. I feared for my life every day. So, of course, I done what I had to, THEN, to survive.

Yes. He was obsessed with me. It's not difficult to spot. Whether it was the lure of the forbidden sexual, a revolt against society, a sickness through maternal neglect, a rage through paternal violence, his diagnosis of schizophrenia, his alcoholism, etc, etc. He viewed me as the answer.

Perhaps I provided relief or release from his demons. Whatever you want to call it.

His urge to possess me, was stronger than the law, morals, principles, my safety and wellbeing, etc. That is all I meant in my OP.

His love letters that he would write me when I refused to see him after he and my mother separated, which he gave to my mother to give to me, were interesting to say the least. She never read them. But his audacity proves the lengths he was willing to go to to retain whatever it was he got from the relationship. My mother did not know what had happened at this point, and when she found out, she contacted the police immediately. So he was taking a huge risk.

I don't think I am special, that is not what this is about.
I am well aware that I was used for his purposes. What seems to be confusing people is that I understand his purposes were not simply a sickness. He was hurt and dis-empowered, and sought solace and power from me.

I know this is hard to hear. And I understand why some are suspicious of my perceptions, believe me I do.

It's just such a shame that no one has been prepared to take that leap of faith, or simply accept my position.

I would never have expected that rather than celebrate a survivor's victory, people would be so afraid that they would tell the survivor they are still sick.

I did not want to upset anyone, I apologise if I have.

posted May 16, 2015 02:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
I'm offering you respect. I ask that you respond with good judgement.

The threads you may be referencing are regarding abusive relationships between consenting adults. That's apples and oranges from victimised children. It simply is due to the nature of human psychology.

If you cannot understand, or perceive that, then this sort of thread may not be appropriate for this forum. There is an empathetic disconnect here between your post and this forum.

Those who have contributed, please do offer your input here. Would you like to continue discussing this matter? Can you do so in a purely astrological fashion? I would never close a thread that is enjoyed or appreciated by the forum, but I suspect this may be crossing some boundaries, even still.

That's why I ask for genuine input.

---

My judgement has been the best I have, throughout all my responses.

posted May 16, 2015 02:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
My judgement has been the best I have, throughout all my responses.

Yes, I think asking the other posters is a good call. I do not want others to be upset.

---

posted May 16, 2015 02:59 PM            

I cannot do your full post justice at the moment, however, my psychologist, through working with me, was able to understand this.
It took two years, but we got there.
And I left free, released.

Perhaps it is simply too complex for words on a screen.

posted May 16, 2015 03:07 PM            

All,
This fear of understanding I have seen in this thread, has to be overcome. Otherwise, we will never have any true power to protect future victims.

I don't know if I can even post here anymore.
How can I possibly be taken seriously now that two moderators (one a therapist, one a psychologist) have just shown me how "ill" I am?

Is this even ethical?

posted May 16, 2015 03:12 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Dear Voix de la mer, your position is a classical Stockholm syndrome and it is not your fault. It was imposed on you, from the beginning. Release it, be free of it. Think how you would feel about someone doing the same with your daughter, your son, or any other 4 year old. Would you still see their humanity? No. This helps you understand this is a wrong path. I think you are almost there, so close to a great victory against evil, against the trials of life

---

posted May 16, 2015 03:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
LeeLoo,

I cannot do your full post justice at the moment, however, my psychologist, through working with me, was able to understand this.
It took two years, but we got there.
And I left free, released.

Perhaps it is simply too complex for words on a screen.

I also work in trauma, so I understand your fear. If you think this thread could harm other survivors at earlier stages of healing, then you have a duty of care to close it.

---

All of the above.

posted May 16, 2015 03:19 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Thanks for responding guys.

I will briefly comment on love-abuse/rape.

I know the difference.

What I said was HE felt he loved me. Sure, he knew sex with me was wrong - we discussed it at length. Like I said, I was his confidante.

I know this is difficult to understand, and you may think I am a poster-child for Stockholm syndrome. But I have done some very deep, hard work, in and out of therapy. I assure you, this is my truth.

All the "have-to's" I believed to get through have been broken down.

So, I ask you to accept my position.

I am not glorifying, idolising, or crazy-making.

What I did was understand him. The child in me connected with the child in him.
Simple as that.

I have gone through all the fires that abuse lights in your path. There is nothing to be angry about now. I value my experiences. He initiated more growth in 9 years about all realms of life, than I have learned in 20 years since.

So please, do not tell me that I am waylaid, confused, distorted, etc.
That is invalidating, and a gross dishonour to the level of healing I have achieved.

I would like to focus on the synastry, please.

---

I understand where you are coming from!
Sometimes when you've been hurt so much that your completely obliterated, torn to shreds...healing absolutely has to include finding a reason, finding something positive to focus on so you can move forward. Your past the desire to blame, past the desire to hurt, past the desire to feel like a victim. You just want to feel ok, be ok, and see how it helped you grow.
The fact is you've forgiven him and now your trying to comprehend why he did what he did. Your not making excuses your trying to see the full picture, emotionally disconnect so that you can see it from his perspective and trying to have empathy.
That empathy is what will help you to genuinely let go and realize there is not negativity needed anymore, you just want to find the bright spots focus in them and move on with the extra insight, depth, wisdom and understanding you learned from your the pain you went through.

I get it....I've had to do the same thing. We need to see why they did it, if we don't find a logical reason(their pain, their mental issue, etc...) we continue to wonder if it was us, we blame ourselves and hold onto guilt like it was our fault.

posted May 16, 2015 03:25 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
I understand where you are coming from!
Sometimes when you've been hurt so much that your completely obliterated, torn to shreds...healing absolutely has to include finding a reason, finding something positive to focus on so you can move forward. Your past the desire to blame, past the desire to hurt, past the desire to feel like a victim. You just want to feel ok, be ok, and see how it helped you grow.
The fact is you've forgiven him and now your trying to comprehend why he did what he did. Your not making excuses your trying to see the full picture, emotionally disconnect so that you can see it from his perspective and trying to have empathy.
That empathy is what will help you to genuinely let go and realize there is not negativity needed anymore, you just want to find the bright spots focus in them and move on with the extra insight, depth, wisdom and understanding you learned from your the pain you went through.

I get it....I've had to do the same thing. We need to see why they did it, if we don't find a logical reason(their pain, their mental issue, etc...) we continue to blame ourselves and think we had some guilt or fault in the event.

---

Gabby,

you are an angel.

You have articulated this much better than I did.

Thank you deeply for your post.

posted May 16, 2015 03:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
I'll just respond now.

The relationship was abusive, as it hurt me - body and mind. The sex hijacked my development, and propelled it into dark worlds where I had no bearings.
Whether he had the capacity to understand just how deep the wound would be, is questionable.

It was emotional, because we were like two close friends, aside from sexual acts.
He confided in me when he and my mother were having problems, and he shared his successes also.

There was also overt grooming, separate from anything above. I assure you, I know the difference.

Now, the synastry ...?

---

Well, I wanted to put that to rest because the approach you have towards the subject, is very much calm.

I think a lot of people here are "angry" on your behalf.

The outrage I believe is latent and many are projecting their own views of sexuality /abuse and all that on to you.Hence the emotive response. So don't mind them.

I have to say that each chart tells a different story.But I do not know of any chart that will tell a specific story of sexual abuse.

But what a chart can often allude to,is an event or an early upbringing that may have brought on some challenges- either psychological,physical or otherwise.

I won't look at his chart.I actually believe that the abuse was really about YOU. Not him.

In fact, I believe every realtionship is about the person and not about whom the "other" is that we enter into that relationship with.

But it is all about YOU in relative to the person.

"Relationship" in the sense of environment surroundings, siblings, Mom/Dad, neighbors etc.

I want to look at the 1st house all the way to the 4th.

The 1st through to the 4th is our elementary beginning and everything we learn from childhood that prepares /pre-paves our perceptual experience of the world- relative to it .

I also want to look at Pluto/Mars/Saturn action.That unpredictable Uranus and shifty Neptune.

Would you mind posting chart your chart positions? I use the whole house system and this chart type is challenging for me to read.

posted May 16, 2015 03:28 PM            

I won't comment on your therapy, because I don't know what it is. But in my experience and opinion, a therapy/post-traumatic healing for such an ordeal starts with the understanding of a simple fact (it is the therapist's duty to make this fact clear from the beginning): some people are born (or develop) with severe malformations. This sounds like a harsh truth, but it is the truth: you can see this in nature as well; from the point of view of the species and species survival, they are rebuttals (perhaps genetically) It's more complicated, perhaps they play a certain role in the greater scheme of things, genetically; but let's stay to a strict point here: the sexual psychopaths are this kind of accidental malformations. It was part of your destiny to be in the presence of such a person (anyone else in their presence would have had the same fate); it is neither your fault, or something to live all your life with. It was just a (terrible) trial for you; you were like a lamb, at sacrifice; this kind of sacrifice is important, it wasn't random, because it means your life is very important to help others; we all suffer and our pains have this higher meaning: how can we cure something or help a certain kind of evil disappear forever from this world if we don't feel it ourselves? sometimes it's part of our path to feel it ourselves, to be the victim. It's probably part of a long journey of seeing both sides of the coin.

posted May 16, 2015 03:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Gabby,

you are an angel.

You have articulated this much better than I did.

Thank you deeply for your post.

EDIT: you also have a Virgo Moon, do you not?

---

Yes I do, unaspected in 12th house conjunct Child and Dejanira....weeeeeeee lol

posted May 16, 2015 03:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
You can never be ill with what happened to you You've never had an illness about this. It is only trauma and post-traumatic healing.

I won't comment on your therapy, because I don't know what it is. But in my experience and opinion, a therapy/post-traumatic healing for such an ordeal starts with the understanding of a simple fact (it is the therapist's duty to make this fact clear from the beginning): some people are born (or develop) with severe malformations. This sounds like a harsh truth, but it is the truth: you can see this in nature as well; from the point of view of the species and species survival, they are rebuttals (perhaps genetically) It's more complicated, perhaps they play a certain role in the greater scheme of things, genetically; but let's stay to a strict point here: the sexual psychopaths are this kind of accidental malformations. It was part of your destiny to be in the presence of such a person (anyone else in their presence would have had the same fate); it is neither your fault, or something to live all your life with. It was just a (terrible) trial for you; you were like a lamb, at sacrifice; this kind of sacrifice is important, it wasn't random, because it means your life is very important to help others; we all suffer and our pains have this higher meaning: how can we cure something or help a certain kind of evil disappear forever from this world if we don't feel it ourselves? sometimes it's part of our path to feel it ourselves, to be the victim. It's probably part of a long journey of seeing both sides of the coin.

But what matters is that you are not the psychopath here; you are not the malformation; you don't have to live your life around this malformed person. You can choose to turn this experience into great knowledge and healing for the world, for this is the only higher meaning such a trial was given to you. This doesn't change the true nature of your encounter: a monster-child encounter. Understanding what these people are and how their mind works is the beginning of such a therapy. It's like meeting a thief in a dark alley; only for you it was a long and unbelievable trial; this doesn't change the fact that this man is just a thief in the alley; this is how the therapy starts.

---

Can you consider that there may be another stage beyond your understanding of "healed"?

If not, please read Gabby's post.

Everything you have said, I felt. And then I continued on.

posted May 16, 2015 03:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
Yes I do, unaspected in 12th house conjunct Child and Dejanira....weeeeeeee lol

My main abuser(step-dad) is dead also!

---

Mine is also in the 12th.
I have Child conjunct Sun, and Dejanira conjunct IC/MERC.

posted May 16, 2015 03:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Mine is also in the 12th.
I have Child conjunct Sun, and Dejanira conjunct IC/MERC.

I really respect how much you have grown btw, it was hard for me to get to this level of healing, so imagine you struggled also.
I'm glad someone understands.

---

posted May 16, 2015 03:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Can you consider that there may be another stage beyond your understanding of "healed"?

If not, please read Gabby's post.

Everything you have said, I felt. And then I continued on.

---

posted May 16, 2015 03:59 PM            

I've done extensive trauma work myself -- as both one who has suffered, and experienced the suffering of others. Another arena in which we find severe polarisation is regarding homicidal personalities. I've worked with a few; I was befriended by others still. One of my oldest childhood best friends also participated in the murder of her stepson with her husband.

I believe there's a fine line between healthy acceptance and helpless acknowledgement. I'm not even sure I understand the difference just yet. Being able to forgive one for the damage done to us is complex, but I don't think you can blame others, calling them 'too weak' because they cannot wrap their heads around what you've termed healing. To each their own, ultimately.

Knowing what we all know, you're just not going to 'win' this one, Voix. Take your own personal truth and accept that it may be a lonely road.

I've had similar but entirely different experiences, with the discovery of a friend of mine having committed homicide -- being such a personality, who delighted in it. No guilt, no remorse. You find that you're viewing them through an entirely different lens now, in the light of this information. I've tried to understand him. Tried to have sympathy. Tried to understand why he killed, and why he enjoyed it. He wasn't ALL bad, you could say. He has a girlfriend now. A steady job. Either his last homicide was in the mid-'90s, or the early naughts -- depending upon what's true.

Was it his rough childhood? The neglect and abuse he also suffered? His obvious schizophrenia? His tormented personality?

He was kind to me -- obsessive, but kind. He actively attacked, threatened, and nearly killed those who sought to harm, or harmed, me. Unfortunately, he also harmed or sought to harm those who loved me, or monopolised my attention.

How do I feel, overall, about him? Like I dodged a bullet by refusing to become further involved. That I'm grateful for his leading me to my eventual destiny of becoming a criminal profiler. Thanks to him, I learnt to fight monsters.

Am I at peace? What is peace? Have I accepted it? What is acceptance?

That sort of complication is not far from a man taking advantage of and victimising a helpless child, who is only seeking love and guidance. We have very little 'acceptance' for such types -- almost as a general rule.