posted May 17, 2015 09:15 AM            

I ask because there is CLEAR bias behind this thread being moved.

posted May 17, 2015 09:18 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Maybe you should request this thread to be closed here then, and start a new one, but without the discussion of your personal experience, which invites people giving their opinions on what happened to you.

---

posted May 17, 2015 09:21 AM            

It doesn't even matter anymore that it happened to you.

Suggesting, even suggesting there can be a love/emotional connection between the pedophile and his victim is not the truth and obviously condones pedophiles?

I was subjected to rape and attempted murder, I am lucky to be alive. The man "loved" me and decided he didn't want to share me with the world and decided it's preferable to kill me instead.

What do I do now, a "romanticized" synastry to show our special connection, thus promoting rape and murder, because I don't have the courage to accept I loved and was "loved" by a violent, potentially criminal man, that what he did was 100% wrong, it's too difficult for me to face the facts?

I can discuss the synastry for rape, violence and abuse, but for what she put in the OP?

I am sorry, but you need to continue your therapy, you are still in a wrong place; get out of there, don't let this man win!

posted May 17, 2015 09:24 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Gabby and Voix, are you for real?

It doesn't even matter anymore that it happened to you.

Suggesting, even suggesting there can be a love/emotional connection between the pedophile and his victim is not the truth and obviously condones pedophiles?

I was subjected to rape and attempted murder, I am lucky to be alive. The man "loved" me and decided he didn't want to share me with the world and decided it's preferable to kill me instead.

What do I do now, a synastry to show our special connection, thus promoting rape and murder, because I don't have the courage to accept I loved and was loved by a violent, potentially criminal man, it's too difficult for me to face the facts?

I can discuss the synastry for violence and abuse, but for what she put in the OP?

I am sorry, but you need to continue your therapy, you are still in a wrong place; get out of there, don't let this man win!

I am through with this.

---

Are you telling me that you were not emotionally connected to your abuser?

Are you telling me that there is never a cross over between emotion and sex?

posted May 17, 2015 09:25 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Auntanomalia, and Aries23 were prepared to actually honour the thread and discuss the astrology.

NOW, I have to be subject to further invalidation and scrutiny.

This is an abuse of perceived power.

To presume you know better from one thread, than those who spent YEARS working with someone is preposterous.

I request that my thread be moved back, so that I may continue to discuss the synastry with those members who were brave and respectful enough to go there with me.

If anyone else wants a debate, have enough respect to do so in your own thread.

I feel I have been thrown to the lions here.
I would appreciate it if posters would have enough humility to reflect on that.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Has Randall been consulted on this, as was indicated prior?

I ask because there is CLEAR bias behind this thread being moved.

I would like an impartial decision please.

---

posted May 17, 2015 09:25 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Gabby and Voix, are you for real?

It doesn't even matter anymore that it happened to you.

Suggesting, even suggesting there can be a love/emotional connection between the pedophile and his victim is not the truth and obviously condones pedophiles?

I was subjected to rape and attempted murder, I am lucky to be alive. The man "loved" me and decided he didn't want to share me with the world and decided it's preferable to kill me instead.

What do I do now, a synastry to show our special connection, thus promoting rape and murder, because I don't have the courage to accept I loved and was loved by a violent, potentially criminal man, it's too difficult for me to face the facts?

I can discuss the synastry for violence and abuse, but for what she put in the OP?

I am sorry, but you need to continue your therapy, you are still in a wrong place; get out of there, don't let this man win!

I am through with this.

---

I never once said there was love between anyone at that time or today. She didn't either...she was saying how he made her feel while she was under his spell of abuse, the "love" he made her feel was part of the abuse!!!!!! Remember that!!

posted May 17, 2015 09:25 AM            

I am deeply sorry about what you've been through, Voix.

Same goes for all the other ladies - Gabby, Auby, LeeLoo, Bluejay...

You are all very strong and I wish the best for you all. May you find healing and serenity

I'm not sure I should express my thoughts on the "debate" that has taken place here... But I will say that I can understand Voix's and Gabby's position (interestingly I'm also a Virgo Moon) and it seems to be the healthiest one, to me... Now onto the astrology.

I would like to see both natal charts, if possible.

I can already see the Mars/Saturn/Pluto conjunction in Voix's chart, right on the ASC, with Mars and Saturn in the 12H, reflecting the hidden nature of the abuse and consequently, Voix's "hidden" strength and power of action (that she seems to have successfully gained back and developed - very admirable).
Pluto retrograde pointing to a loss of power in early life that she's had to get back, through internal reflections and inner work.
Perhaps also reflecting a very "personalized" view on abuse, power, transformation and healing (coming to a conclusion through personal experience as opposed to objective or "social" views on such subjects).

Interesting to note that both have a Virgo Moon; I would think he has a Moon/Pluto conjunction reflecting early emotional trauma and more literally "sexual attraction/abuse (Pluto) towards (female) children (Moon)".

Pluto, Uranus and Venus retro... A "personalized" view on those themes - in this case even distorted - sexuality, power, abuse, social deviance, what's acceptable or not, love given and received, difficulties in love (and self-love, most probably) and relationships, especially with Chiron so close to Venus (in the the sign ruled by Uranus, no less).

I can't tell if the Mars/Saturn conjunction is too wide in the abuser's chart, but I would probably count it nonetheless. Tendency towards lack of empathy, immorality, narrow-minded or negativistic thinking (especially with Mercury in the mix), possible substance abuse (alcohol?) and deep, deep resentment and frustration at early experiences that somehow took away his will and deeply hurt his ego (probably affecting his view of himself as "manly man").

That's it for now.

Hopefully this isn't triggering or offending to anyone.
I am of course not condoning or "justifying" this man's acts, at all.
Just sharing some astrological thoughts.

posted May 17, 2015 09:29 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
First:

I am deeply sorry about what you've been through, Voix.

Same goes for all the other ladies - Gabby, Auby, LeeLoo, Bluejay...

You are all very strong and I wish the best for you all. May you find healing and serenity

I'm not sure I should express my thoughts on the "debate" that has taken place here... But I will say that I can understand Voix's and Gabby's position (interestingly I'm also a Virgo Moon) and it seems to be the healthiest one, to me... Now onto the astrology.

I would like to see both natal charts, if possible.

I can already see the Mars/Saturn/Pluto conjunction in Voix's chart, right on the ASC, with Mars and Saturn in the 12H, reflecting the hidden nature of the abuse and consequently, Voix's "hidden" strength and power of action (that she seems to have successfully gained back and developed - very admirable).
Pluto retrograde pointing to a loss of power in early life that she's had to get back, through internal reflections and inner work.
Perhaps also reflecting a very "personalized" view on abuse, power, transformation and healing (coming to a conclusion through personal experience as opposed to objective or "social" views on such subjects).

Interesting to note that both have a Virgo Moon; I would think he has a Moon/Pluto conjunction reflecting early emotional trauma and more literally "sexual attraction/abuse (Pluto) towards (female) children (Moon)".

Pluto, Uranus and Venus retro... A "personalized" view on those themes - in this case even distorted - sexuality, power, abuse, social deviance, what's acceptable or not, love given and received, difficulties in love (and self-love, most probably) and relationships, especially with Chiron so close to Venus (in the the sign ruled by Uranus, no less).

I can't tell if the Mars/Saturn conjunction is too wide in the abuser's chart, but I would probably count it nonetheless. Tendency towards lack of empathy, immorality, narrow-minded or negativistic thinking (especially with Mercury in the mix), possible substance abuse (alcohol?) and deep, deep resentment and frustration at early experiences that somehow took away his will and deeply hurt his ego (probably affecting his view of himself as "manly man").

That's it for now.

Hopefully this isn't triggering or offending to anyone.
I am of course not condoning or "justifying" this man's acts, at all.
Just sharing some astrological thoughts.

~

---

posted May 17, 2015 09:34 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
I never would have thought the response to the way you've healed would have been so extreme. Had this have been my thread I would have ended up in tears wondering if I was in the wrong for the way id healed and perhaps I wasn't as healthy as I'd thought.
Then eventually I'd realize it wasn't me that was in the wrong but it would take some time to recognize that and a lot of unnecessary hurt.
I don't understand how come others don't see it...to me it's so simple and straight forward. We did what anyone would do while fixing and cleaning something that's broken, first you take it apart, wipe all the yuck off it and slowly patiently put it back together in a way that allows it to work better. After you've done that you don't want to hang onto all the yuck that was making it not work and dirty...no you throw it away and allow a fresh start.
With your fresh start your perception of life is more realistic, you are able to stay in the present instead of everything triggering some old pain and extreme emotions that seemingly come from out of nowhere. You can get into heated conversations about things like this without completely falling apart or at least bounce back much quicker....because your healthy.
Honestly what I'm seeing here and I know your aware of it also is pain that has not been dealt with being triggered. The first response is to attack the trigger instead of attacking the emotional issue that's being triggered.

---

I guess there are also stereotypes for "victims" or "survivors".

posted May 17, 2015 10:05 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
I guess there are also stereotypes for "victims" or "survivors".

We do not fit those stereotypes, so those who think they are in the know, are suspicious, as we do not fit their schema for "survivor/victim".

---

Do you have a direct NN Voix? I'd love to compare our charts I've always wonder what made me able to heal the way I have, it'd be interesting to see what aspects, other than 12th house virgo moon, we share. I'm sure don't find many ppl like you!

The cycle of healing...
1st-your an innocent happy child without anger or hate

2nd-the abuse happens, your caught in the cycle whatever cycle that is

3rd-eventually, emotionally you wake to realize you were abused

4th-you go through cycles of healing, denial, anger, grief, acceptance and then find ways of coping...most ppl get to this place and stall out, they don't get beyond this.

5th-get sick of limping along, pull all the pain back up, see it and look at it, try to define who you really are and how the pain/abuse changed you

6th-decide you don't want to be those changes

7th-find all the things that need to be pulled out of you to get you back to your original or core person

8th-realize anger, hate for even the abusers was not part of your original person...you would not have those feelings if it wouldn't have happened.

9th-allow yourself to see the abuser through emotionally intelligent eyes and try to find a way to understand why he did what he did. Try to find the Christ like compassion and understanding for EVEN them. Your greatest challenge and if accomplished your greatest gift.

10th-take this understanding and use it to free yourself from the anger, see the abuser as a human being trying to navigate his own karma, pain and issues, realize he failed at this. See him connected to all humanity instead of the abuser.

11th-freedom from all the yuck that the abuse put in you. Return to who you would have been had the abuse not happened, the happiness, the freedom, the peace but now you have a depth of wisdom that makes you a better person than you would have been.

posted May 17, 2015 11:13 AM            

He has been described as a well meaning, confused child inside of a man that only wanted to show love to a young girl, due to his own childhood trauma. That the child in you touched the child in him...I'm sorry, but that statement makes my stomach turn. This is textbook grooming. Child abusers are master manipulators, and are skilled at actually making their own victims take pity on them. I think that's the point that many here have tried to make, although it may come across as insulting your mental state. I don't think that anyone has that intention. Regardless of his own possible suffering or issues that he may have experienced as a child, he is still a grown man that knew what he was doing was wrong, and all that he cared about was his own sexual gratification. There was no love involved, that was simply a tactic that he used to get what he wanted. If you believe that he was coming from a place of love(even if in his own mind), then you are still under the influence of his emotional manipulation.

He was a sick, selfish child predator, and does not deserve the level of compassion that you have given to him. I understand that some feel that forgiveness is necessary in the healing process, but forgiveness does not mean making excuses for a man that is using classic grooming techniques and emotional manipulation. It may not have been your intention, but your description of him suggests that you are cutting him way too much slack. He's a perverted child molester that made a 4 year old feel loved so that he could satisfy his disgusting sexual urges. There's just no way around that. This was not the case of a well intentioned man being influenced by the energy of a certain child. I think that is the reason that many people aren't able to focus on the synastry, because it was a crime of opportunity, not attraction to a specific child.

I feel that your synastry with him speaks more to you being able to view him in a compassionate light than what actually triggered the abuse. Especially the Sun conjunct Venus double whammy, and the exact Mercury/Neptune. These aspects make it difficult to view him as a monster, no matter how inexcusable and vile his behavior was.

posted May 17, 2015 11:26 AM            

please do not mix-up astrology with more attempts to convince me I am distorted.

I understand that perhaps my wording had led people to believe I have romantised my abuse, but I have repeatedly explained how this assumption is WRONG.

If people would read without blinkers they may actually understand - however, that would involve meeting their own darkness head-on.

I will not apologise for going into the dark, it saved my life.

I am using the terms "sexual" and "relationship" in the cold hard definitions of the words.

Is astrology not attempting to be a science?

Are we not dealing with definitions here?

My stepfather and I related, and there were sexual relations. NO WHERE in this thread did I say I it was NOT abuse.

Ever heard the phrase: "sexual relations with a minor"?

It is just straightforward language.

That's how I speak.

The title of the thread states "Childhood Sexual Abuse".

YES. I understand that the damage done to him when he was a child, is what drove the damage he done to me.

YES. He was trying to take back the power that was taken from him.

This is simply understanding.

If you cannot comprehend this, then please step out.

There is NOTHING anyone can say to me that will make me think otherwise.

posted May 17, 2015 11:51 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
First:

I am deeply sorry about what you've been through, Voix.

Same goes for all the other ladies - Gabby, Auby, LeeLoo, Bluejay...

You are all very strong and I wish the best for you all. May you find healing and serenity

I'm not sure I should express my thoughts on the "debate" that has taken place here... But I will say that I can understand Voix's and Gabby's position (interestingly I'm also a Virgo Moon) and it seems to be the healthiest one, to me... Now onto the astrology.

I would like to see both natal charts, if possible.

I can already see the Mars/Saturn/Pluto conjunction in Voix's chart, right on the ASC, with Mars and Saturn in the 12H, reflecting the hidden nature of the abuse and consequently, Voix's "hidden" strength and power of action (that she seems to have successfully gained back and developed - very admirable).
Pluto retrograde pointing to a loss of power in early life that she's had to get back, through internal reflections and inner work.
Perhaps also reflecting a very "personalized" view on abuse, power, transformation and healing (coming to a conclusion through personal experience as opposed to objective or "social" views on such subjects).

Interesting to note that both have a Virgo Moon; I would think he has a Moon/Pluto conjunction reflecting early emotional trauma and more literally "sexual attraction/abuse (Pluto) towards (female) children (Moon)".

Pluto, Uranus and Venus retro... A "personalized" view on those themes - in this case even distorted - sexuality, power, abuse, social deviance, what's acceptable or not, love given and received, difficulties in love (and self-love, most probably) and relationships, especially with Chiron so close to Venus (in the the sign ruled by Uranus, no less).

I can't tell if the Mars/Saturn conjunction is too wide in the abuser's chart, but I would probably count it nonetheless. Tendency towards lack of empathy, immorality, narrow-minded or negativistic thinking (especially with Mercury in the mix), possible substance abuse (alcohol?) and deep, deep resentment and frustration at early experiences that somehow took away his will and deeply hurt his ego (probably affecting his view of himself as "manly man").

That's it for now.

Hopefully this isn't triggering or offending to anyone.
I am of course not condoning or "justifying" this man's acts, at all.
Just sharing some astrological thoughts.

~

---

It's OK Doux. I am thankful for the opportunity for growth that my experiences offered me.

Another Virgo Moon who understands - that IS interesting.

Pluto retrograde pointing to a loss of power in early life that she's had to get back, through internal reflections and inner work.
Perhaps also reflecting a very "personalized" view on abuse, power, transformation and healing (coming to a conclusion through personal experience as opposed to objective or "social" views on such subjects)

Ah, this makes a lot of sense.
I found there was a fine line between empathy and pity when it came to attitudes toward survivors of abuse.
There are so many stages to the process.

But yes, there comes a point where you have to truly own it - FIND a reason, integrate the lessons, and the growth.
I guess this is Pluto in action, like you say.

Perhaps Mars in the 12th was useful for pulling all this out of the unconscious for Pluto to transform?

This for me, was indeed a very personal journey. I had already completed this leg by the time I entered therapy, and thankfully, my psychologist recognised this as a strength.

His work with me will be used in his work with other trauma survivors because of how much he learned about healing.

I can't tell if the Mars/Saturn conjunction is too wide in the abuser's chart, but I would probably count it nonetheless. Tendency towards lack of empathy, immorality, narrow-minded or negativistic thinking (especially with Mercury in the mix), possible substance abuse (alcohol?) and deep, deep resentment and frustration at early experiences that somehow took away his will and deeply hurt his ego (probably affecting his view of himself as "manly man").

Yes. He abused alcohol to manage symptoms of schizophrenia. He had a preference for alcohol over medication. Probably because the medication compromised his ability to have sex.

So much of his sense of self was tied up with his sexuality and the power he could wield through sexuality. This also played out when he attacked my mother.
He would aim kicks/punches at intimate areas on her body.

I'm not sure if he entirely lacked empathy, when my brother was born, he was initially very caring, attentive, patient, and affectionate with him.
That did change though, when he realised the baby was getting more attention than he was. So he was definitely self-centred predominantly.

As for ego and his idea of what a man is.
That I believe was definitely skewed by his father beating only him, and not his 5 sisters. The beatings were severe - far beyond "discipline" (if there is such a thing - I don't believe in physical punishment, it teaches nothing about discipline IMO).
An interesting way that I think this played out is that he saw fit to view me as a sexual object and my brother as a rival. He resented my brother as his father appeared to resent only him.
He was violent toward me on occasions (aside from the abuse), but it was never as severe as his violence toward my brother.

Thank you for your insights Doux!

posted May 17, 2015 12:04 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
Do you have a direct NN Voix? I'd love to compare our charts I've always wonder what made me able to heal the way I have, it'd be interesting to see what aspects, other than 12th house virgo moon, we share. I'm sure don't find many ppl like you!

The cycle of healing...
1st-your an innocent happy child without anger or hate

2nd-the abuse happens, your caught in the cycle whatever cycle that is

3rd-eventually, emotionally you wake to realize you were abused

4th-you go through cycles of healing, denial, anger, grief, acceptance and then find ways of coping...most ppl get to this place and stall out, they don't get beyond this.

5th-get sick of limping along, pull all the pain back up, see it and look at it, try to define who you really are and how the pain/abuse changed you

6th-decide you don't want to be those changes

7th-find all the things that need to be pulled out of you to get you back to your original or core person

8th-realize anger, hate for even the abusers was not part of your original person...you would not have those feelings if it wouldn't have happened.

9th-allow yourself to see the abuser through emotionally intelligent eyes and try to find a way to understand why he did what he did. Try to find the Christ like compassion and understanding for EVEN them. Your greatest challenge and if accomplished your greatest gift.

10th-take this understanding and use it to free yourself from the anger, see the abuser as a human being trying to navigate his own karma, pain and issues, realize he failed at this. See him connected to all humanity instead of the abuser.

11th-freedom from all the yuck that the abuse put in you. Return to who you would have been had the abuse not happened, the happiness, the freedom, the peace but now you have a depth of wisdom that makes you a better person than you would have been.

This is a very generalized discription of the healing process I've never put into words so it's not very good, but it's a generalized idea.

---

This is a wonderful description of the process Gabby - thank for taking the time and effort to share this.
I can relate to every stage.

I too would be interested to compare our charts.

My NN is direct, yes.

posted May 17, 2015 12:10 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
This is a wonderful description of the process Gabby - thank for taking the time and effort to share this.
I can relate to every stage.

I too would be interested to compare our charts.

My NN is direct, yes.

Would you like me to email you my data for a comparison?

---

Definitely!
I have a direct NN also!! Wow

posted May 17, 2015 12:15 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
Definitely!
I have a direct NN also!! Wow

My Name asteroid, Gaea, Oriela, Aura, Horus, Vibhuti are all cancer@25-27....that's on your NN correct?

---

posted May 17, 2015 12:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
What is the significance of the NN being direct?

---

It fits very well with the fact that we both have death and rebirth(Pluto) on our AC, also we both have Karma on our AC, your Saturn and my asteroid Karma
Then I have Venus and you have Mars conjunct all in libra the sign of balancing energies.

posted May 17, 2015 12:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
[b]What is the significance of the NN being direct?

---

It fits very well with the fact that we both have death and rebirth(Pluto) on our AC, also we both have Karma on our AC, your Saturn and my asteroid Karma
Then I have Venus and you have Mars conjunct all in libra the sign of balancing energies.[/B][/QUOTE]

This is interesting.
iQ once said, after reading my chart, that its possible this may be the last incarnation.

I am unsure around reincarnation, so I don't know how I feel about this at present.

However, there has certainly been a LOT of "stuff" to work through in this life so far.

The abuse was only one thing.