posted May 16, 2015 10:26 AM            

We had a sexual relationship when I was age 4 to age 13.

I do not have his birth time, and he is now dead.

I have not added any "dark" asteroids, as if this can be seen, surely it can be seen with the planets.

I have added "love" asteroids, because I think it is interesting how we always perceive love to be a positive influence.

I know he truly thought he loved me. He treated me as a partner, a confidante, a comrade, a sexual partner. Our relationship was very emotional, it wasn't all sex.

Completely inappropriate of course, however, I was the centre of his world, and this overtook any moral, spiritual, or sensible constraints.

I find it interesting that his VENUS conj. CHIRON conjuncts my SUN. I think he was trying to overcome a wound by attaching to me. And I did at times see him blossom, but the burden of the relationship was too much for my young mind and body, and I really just needed a daddy.

Anyway, I thought it would be interesting to offer an actual synastry of this, for anyone who'd like to study it with me.

posted May 16, 2015 10:36 AM            

I hope he died horribly.

posted May 16, 2015 11:16 AM            

I know how it feels to have conflicting emotions in situations like this. My father is a sexual predator, but as a child I worshipped him. I spent years feeling guilty for cutting him out of my life completely in my teens, but he refused to admit any wrong doing or get counseling. I offered to support him and help him face his demons, but he couldn't even acknowledge what a monster he was. He's the most manipulative person I've ever met, and has made it impossible for me to ever fully trust another human being. Molesters know what they are doing!

posted May 16, 2015 01:00 PM            

For me, it was age 7 to 12. Like you, I thought it was love then. I was told he adored me, and, had I retained those memories (long story as to why I didn't, but suffice it to say, I'm an amnesiac) I would have likely believed it. Of course, I went on to be a therapist, and had to face the hard, hard reality of what love is and isn't. (Spoiler alert: a LOT isn't love.)

posted May 16, 2015 01:24 PM            

In fact,it seems there is a lot of understanding that you to extend to you stepfather.

And I found this fascinating as the title of the thread is termed "abuse"???

Are you labeling it "abuse", because you are responding to the judgment of others? In other words what society believes and defines as "abuse"?

Or are you labeling it "abuse" because of experience you had with him? Uncomfortable, violating your sense of identity,evoking feelings of shame,guilt and warped perceptions of father/ daughter relationships?

posted May 16, 2015 01:47 PM            

I will briefly comment on love-abuse/rape.

I know the difference.

What I said was HE felt he loved me. Sure, he knew sex with me was wrong - we discussed it at length. Like I said, I was his confidante.

I know this is difficult to understand, and you may think I am a poster-child for Stockholm syndrome. But I have done some very deep, hard work, in and out of therapy. I assure you, this is my truth.

All the "have-to's" I believed to get through have been broken down.

So, I ask you to accept my position.

I am not glorifying, idolising, or crazy-making.

What I did was understand him. The child in me connected with the child in him.
Simple as that.

I have gone through all the fires that abuse lights in your path. There is nothing to be angry about now. I value my experiences. He initiated more growth in 9 years about all realms of life, than I have learned in 20 years since.

So please, do not tell me that I am waylaid, confused, distorted, etc.
That is invalidating, and a gross dishonour to the level of healing I have achieved.

posted May 16, 2015 01:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
It's interesting [b]Voix_de_la_Mer,as you don't sound angry at all in you post.

In fact,it seems there is a lot of understanding that you to extend to you stepfather.

And I found this fascinating as the title of the thread is termed "abuse"???

Are you labeling it "abuse", because you are responding to the judgment of others? In other words what society believes and defines as "abuse"?

Or are you labeling it "abuse" because of experience you had with him? Uncomfortable, violating your sense of identity,evoking feelings of shame,guilt and warped perceptions of father/ daughter relationships?

I ask this because you also describe it as a "relationship":Saying that it was also very "emotional"?[/B]

---

posted May 16, 2015 01:49 PM            

I have just seen your post.
Interesting question. I will come back and answer.

posted May 16, 2015 01:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
It's interesting [b]Voix_de_la_Mer,as you don't sound angry at all in you post.

In fact,it seems there is a lot of understanding that you to extend to you stepfather.

And I found this fascinating as the title of the thread is termed "abuse"???

Are you labeling it "abuse", because you are responding to the judgment of others? In other words what society believes and defines as "abuse"?

Or are you labeling it "abuse" because of experience you had with him? Uncomfortable, violating your sense of identity,evoking feelings of shame,guilt and warped perceptions of father/ daughter relationships?

I ask this because you also describe it as a "relationship":Saying that it was also very "emotional"?[/B]

---

I'll just respond now.

The relationship was abusive, as it hurt me - body and mind. The sex hijacked my development, and propelled it into dark worlds where I had no bearings.
Whether he had the capacity to understand just how deep the wound would be, is questionable.

It was emotional, because we were like two close friends, aside from sexual acts.
He confided in me when he and my mother were having problems, and he shared his successes also.

There was also overt grooming, separate from anything above. I assure you, I know the difference.

posted May 16, 2015 01:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Aries,

I have just seen your post.
Interesting question. I will come back and answer.

---

Incidentally, you can't be a true confidante or comrade, and there's NO way you should be a sexual partner -- during childhood.

I might understand your level of acceptance, were you 15 to 24, for example. But age 4 to 10, you have NO idea what's going on with the world. None. You start beginning to intuit an idea from your own perceptions (which are mostly false) from age 11 to 13. Something happens between 13 and 15, with adolescence taking hold, and real growth and development beginning to occur, which will reflect a burgeoning adulthood.

What you have suffered is a tragedy, Voix. Perhaps the greatest acceptance you can take from this is the understanding that your soul chose this path. It may help you, over time, come to understand how this will help you to become the individual you're to be -- wounds, warts, tragedies, and all.

You're only a titch younger than I am, so I do understand how long and arduous this process can be.

posted May 16, 2015 02:01 PM            

I wouldn't give that monster the satisfaction of knowing it, but, unfortunately, our first experiences shape us. Not a whole helluva lot of control I've had over the situation. But, oh, have I diligently tried. Every damned day of my life. 34 years.

The least we can do is call a spade a spade and not sugarcoat anything.

posted May 16, 2015 02:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
And I found this fascinating as the title of the thread is termed "abuse"???

Are you labeling it "abuse", because you are responding to the judgment of others? In other words what society believes and defines as "abuse"?

---

Do you seriously think there's a line that separates pedophilia from abuse/rape as long as the child thinks they're consenting?
And that society is just wrongfully judging such relationship bc of conservative thoughts?
Are you kidding me?

A child doesn't have the mental, emotional and physical maturity for a sexual relationship.

posted May 16, 2015 02:10 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
To this day, my sexuality is properly f*cked, by the bye.

---

It's so common for victims to engage with older abusive men in order to recreate the trauma bonding.

posted May 16, 2015 02:10 PM            

I did not say anyone SHOULD be any of those things.

Those are the ROLES he gave me. It is how he TREATED me. Rightly, or wrongly.

I know you mean well, but really, I understand what went on. I do not need to substitute my understanding with another's so I upset less people.

You seem to be assuming I haven't even taken the first step toward healing, which is interesting.

Perhaps those of you who are in touch with iQ should contact him, and inquire about my sanity. He knows me fairly well.

ANYWAY, is it just me, or are we avoiding discussing the synastry?

posted May 16, 2015 02:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by midnightvenus:
Do you seriously think there's a line that separates pedophilia from abuse/rape as long as the child thinks they're consenting?
And that society is just wrongfully judging such relationship bc of conservative thoughts?
Are you kidding me?

A child doesn't have the mental, emotional and physical maturity for a sexual relationship.

---

PLEASE, don't do this here.

Aries was addressing me.

Lets talk about the astrology.

posted May 16, 2015 02:15 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by midnightvenus:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aubyanne:
[b]To this day, my sexuality is properly f*cked, by the bye.

---

It's so common for victims to engage with older abusive men in order to recreate the trauma bonding.

I can only wish to OP and you all the happiness and love you both deserve.[/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks, MV. I am, finally. My husband is a bit older (7 years) and I became aware that I was trying to heal that early trauma. He wasn't abusive, per se, but it took him a lot of learning and growing to be able to accept my asexuality against his sexual addiction. We had to work with each other. He has his own abuse history, and thus, it became even more convoluted.

I'm not sure if Voix is familiar with trauma bonding. I've been able to form trauma bonds with men my own age -- or even younger -- frankly.

posted May 16, 2015 02:17 PM            

Perhaps, Voix, the topic is too emotionally charged to view the astrology objectively. And, to be frank with you, I can't view my own synastry with such objectivity, unless I've shut my emotions down completely.

posted May 16, 2015 02:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bluejay:
I'm so sorry that you went through that Voix. No child should ever have to be used for someone's sick perversions. I think the most heartbreaking part is that you were his victim, yet he was obviously so good at grooming you, that your perception of the situation is totally warped. There is absolutely no love there, he was only satisfying his own sick sexual fantasies. I find it interesting that your most exact conjunction is his Mercury conjunct your Neptune. It seems that he was able to mentally manipulate you into not seeing him for the monster that he was. That's definitely Neptune in action. His Venus/Chiron conjunction could show abuse from a woman in his past, which could explain him being drawn to sexually abusive situations. Maybe he was incapable of having healthy romantic relationships with women, and blurred the lines of love and abuse in his eyes. Your Sun/Venus double whammy probably added feelings of goodwill between the two of you, but no one that loves a child would use and abuse them in such a perverse way. They would do anything to protect them from situations like this. No amount of rationalization on his part can change the fact that he committed a horrendous crime. He was a very sick man!

I know how it feels to have conflicting emotions in situations like this. My father is a sexual predator, but as a child I worshipped him. I spent years feeling guilty for cutting him out of my life completely in my teens, but he refused to admit any wrong doing or get counseling. I offered to support him and help him face his demons, but he couldn't even acknowledge what a monster he was. He's the most manipulative person I've ever met, and has made it impossible for me to ever fully trust another human being. Molesters know what they are doing!

I see you have Sun square Chiron, which can be abuse from the father. I have the opposition.

---

Bluejay,

thank you for sharing your astrological insight.

Your VENUS/CHIRON interp is interesting.
He was bullied by his father, but failed by his mother - she failed to protect him.
BUT, he also had 5 sisters. Not ONE of them were ever disciplined physically, only him. So, yes, a wound connected with women for sure.

This info was from his sister, not him, incidentally. She was trying to understand how he became the man he became.

posted May 16, 2015 02:21 PM            

That's hardly to say you're 'insane'. Consider it a perception-mismatch. Nothing more than that. You can take from it what you will.

I'm not sure the synastry of a four year old girl engaging in sexual relations with a man in his twenties is ... appropriate for this forum.

I'll ask Ceri, Lee, and Lotis to weigh in, with Randall giving the final decision. But this is my precursory view.

posted May 16, 2015 02:23 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:

The fact that you can may be more revealing than anything we could say.

---

I don't understand this statement?

I think the fact that others are struggling to accept that I have made peace with my past, says more about others than myself.

But, I done it for me. Acceptance is always nice, but I've come through worse than rejection!