posted May 17, 2015 05:47 AM            

I looked at your synastry and these aspects caught my attention most:
his Jupiter conjunct your Pluto and your Jupiter square his Uranus - 2 planets with the strongest destructive potential in hard aspects to the planet associated with morality
his Venus trine your Mars - I would've expected it to go the other way
his Moon possibly square your IC ruler Uranus in Sagittarius which is ruled by Jupiter

posted May 17, 2015 05:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
Thank you!
When you come out on the other side, the world is an amazing place. Even though we are not perfect or totally healed we do see life in a completely new way. I feel very blessed for that.

---

Yes it is. My environment acted against me every step of the way, no one thought I would make it, yet I have already achieved more than I ever believed possible, way beyond survival - LIVING.

posted May 17, 2015 06:19 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aunt Anomalia:
It's ridiculous what this thread turned into. I'm sorry you got such a treatment here, Voix.

I looked at your synastry and these aspects caught my attention most:
his Jupiter conjunct your Pluto and your Jupiter square his Uranus - 2 planets with the strongest destructive potential in hard aspects to the planet associated with morality
his Venus trine your Mars - I would've expected it to go the other way
his Moon possibly square your IC ruler Uranus in Sagittarius which is ruled by Jupiter

---

Thank you Aunt, I guess we never know how a thread will go. People are so complex, and the internet can be a dark place to walk.

Of course! I always forget the morality of Jupiter, in favour of his potential for learning. Although I guess they are one and the same in a sense.

Uranus doesn't like rules, and targets the heart of morality in the chart - Jupiter. That makes sense.

Another thing people don't like to admit is the sexuality of children.
Children HAVE sexuality whether we like it or not, that is what puberty is.
I am not condoning early activation of sexuality - let me make that clear.
But it is in development prior to age-appropriate sexual activity.

So, in a healthy relationship, activation of Pluto by Jupiter, may be a safe learning curve, where the child learns respect for their sexuality.

I would have expected Mars to be involved here, I'm struggling to see how this activation manifested immorally.

posted May 17, 2015 06:33 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aunt Anomalia:
It's ridiculous what this thread turned into. I'm sorry you got such a treatment here, Voix.

---

Excuse me? Can you point a "ridiculous" post about this story in this thread? Thanks!

posted May 17, 2015 07:00 AM            

Well then it`s simple.
No, we can`t see childhood sexual abuse in synastry, as those planetary configurations could come up in different relationship as well and express differently. (though certain synastric aspects surely will make us direct our attention asking: What`s really going on here?)

But we can`t say with certainty if we see a synastry chart (without knowing anything about the participants), if there was childhood abuse.

posted May 17, 2015 08:13 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Excuse me? Can you point a "ridiculous" post about this story in this thread? Thanks!

Voix, are you suggesting the people commenting here as they did, (what is that Jupiter morals rant?), did it because "morals" and the fact they can't accept and are afraid of the "sexual relationship" between you, a 4y old and your abuser, an adult man, they don't understand the emotional and love connection between you, that you were "his partner, his confidante, his comrade, his sexual partner"? and that they are afraid to accept this because of "morals"?

---

No LeeLoo. I was discussing the Jupiter aspects in the synastry that Aunt highlighted.

I made no reference in that post toward members of this site.

I am discussing the astrological energies between my stepfather and I.
Sexual abuse is immoral, not LL members.

Just because some members do not want to discuss those energies astrologically, does not change the fact they exist.

This is an opportunity to learn more about astrology.

As said before, we look at parent-child ALL THE TIME.

Why are we saying we cannot look at this parent-child?

Don't you see how discriminatory that is? How invalidating?

I said before, if this thread is causing actual harm to survivors, then close it.

If it is closed based on fear of seeing either that we CAN see sexual abuse, or fear of the "traditional" "positive" placements in synastry, being shown to be more complex than originally thought - then that is the wrong reason.

Growth is good.

It is clear astrology is not black and white.

I am trying to see this astrologically, it is far from a "rant".

You have a very fixed perception of my OP.

I have tried throughout this entire thread to help you understand where I am coming from, but you are refusing to step into my shoes.

That is a shame. How ANY trauma plays out and ends up is individual.

posted May 17, 2015 08:21 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Is this thread meant to be about synastry?

Well then it`s simple.
No, we can`t see childhood sexual abuse in synastry, as those planetary configurations could come up in different relationship as well and express differently. (though certain synastric aspects surely will make us direct our attention asking: What`s really going on here?)

But we can`t say with certainty if we see a synastry chart (without knowing anything about the participants), if there was childhood abuse.

For any other debate, there are other forums to do that.

---

Why then do we discuss astrological markers of abuse between adults?

Why can we not see it between an adult and a child?

Why are we not prepared to look for it?

Sorry about all the questions, but I am utterly baffled by most of the responses to this thread.

Members appear to see it fit to question my mental health, and capacity to make sense of my experiences.

And then tell me there is no astrology here.

I presented astrology, shared part of my journey and work that I am proud of, and received judgement.

Baffling.

ADDITIONALLY: I am not interested in debating anything with anyone.

Let me be VERY clear: NO ONE here has the right, nor the expertise to judge my mental health on scanty information on a thread on the internet.

posted May 17, 2015 08:34 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Auby,

If you are participating in this thread again, I hope it is with more balance than before. You deleted one of your posts, but I read it.

It implied that you were very angry at the path I have grown along.
In another post you put in quotes that I said those who didn't take the same path as me were weak - [b]that is utterly incorrect.
I did not say that anywhere.

I welcome your astrological input, as you are well-informed, but I am not inviting criticism or defamation from anyone.

It may seem as if I don't feel anything, but I do.

The responses to this thread that WERE an attack on my way of being, hard-fought for perceptions, decision-making capacity, and current state of mind, upset me enough to disturb my sleep last night.

So, I am asking respectfully that you and others recognise if you cannot respond sensitively, then to step out.

A lot of fear was triggered by this topic, which is understandable, but that is because that fear already existed around this topic - this thread did not create that fear.

I think it is clear that Gabby and I are strong, and healthy, and stable. THAT means something.

It's not wise to pathologise something simply because we don't understand it.

[/B]

---

I never would have thought the response to the way you've healed would have been so extreme. Had this have been my thread I would have ended up in tears wondering if I was in the wrong for the way id healed and perhaps I wasn't as healthy as I'd thought.
Then eventually I'd realize it wasn't me that was in the wrong but it would take some time to recognize that and a lot of unnecessary hurt.
I don't understand how come others don't see it...to me it's so simple and straight forward. We did what anyone would do while fixing and cleaning something that's broken, first you take it apart, wipe all the yuck off it and slowly patiently put it back together in a way that allows it to work better. After you've done that you don't want to hang onto all the yuck that was making it not work and dirty...no you throw it away and allow a fresh start.
With your fresh start your perception of life is more realistic, you are able to stay in the present instead of everything triggering some old pain and extreme emotions that seemingly come from out of nowhere. You can get into heated conversations about things like this without completely falling apart or at least bounce back much quicker....because your healthy.
Honestly what I'm seeing here and I know your aware of it also is pain that has not been dealt with being triggered. The first response is to attack the trigger instead of attacking the emotional issue that's being triggered.

posted May 17, 2015 08:35 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Why then do we discuss astrological markers of abuse between adults?

---

I don`t.

As for the other points.
You are at the point in your development and perception of things you are, and so are others.
It`s not my place to judge this. Of course I have my own perception and opinion but that is of little importance and wouldn`t add anything substantial to the topic of the thread.

BTW darkstar astrology had an example of a father-daughter-abuse-connection.
http://darkstarastrology.com/mackenzie-phillips-sexual-incest/

While it is without a doubt an interesting article, I think that sexual abuse was ONE possible manifestation of these astrological energies.
But there would have been other possibilities to express those energies in healthier ways.

posted May 17, 2015 08:41 AM            

What you describe as emotional connection, love, sexual connection, adoration etc. is actually the well-known and classical and scientifically proven pedophile grooming and emotional manipulation resulting in the Stockholm syndrome of sexually abused children. Not all pedophiles kidnap children, rape them and then kill them, in order to satisfy their urge, for this is a dangerous way to live. The smartest ones target a woman with a child of their preferred age and gender: the child becomes the target, everything is being planned in their mind all the time, you were targeted for your age, not for who you are. You didn't matter to him, only your age did. He was a predator.

The people who posted here, therapists or not, did it to help you see the truth, to help your healing. Calling their intervention "dark" is unfair and proves you are not ready at this point, this day, to accept the facts about your stepfather, that you were the victim of a child abuser. And this is perfectly normal and OK, post-traumatic healing after this takes a lot of work and time.

You were abused as a child, but you are not a child anymore, you are a woman surrounded by children, and it's time to woman up and face the facts in their true light and turn your experience into fighting against child abuse, if you wish, but not the other way around. The first thing you will learn with a specialist is the profile of such a predator and slowly they will help you understand the truth and set you free. But this cannot happen here on this forum, only with a specialist.

Having know-it-all wannabees here giving their opinion on the matter when you and other victims need so much healing, love and proper counsel is a bad idea. At least most people had the decency to understand you don't comment on these matters unless you know what you're talking about, either through personal experience or knowledge.

I would like to move this thread to Sweet Peas for you to discuss the impact of child sexual abuse or, if you wish, close the thread.

posted May 17, 2015 08:45 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

I would like to move this thread to Sweet Peas for you to discuss the impact of child sexual abuse or, if you wish, close the thread.

---

posted May 17, 2015 08:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
And what are your shoes? that your stepfather loved you, worshiped you, you were his friend, his partner, his confidante? That you "triggered" something in him (synastry) for you to be abused as a child? that he was not a sick sexual predator of the worst kind?

What you describe as emotional connection, love, sexual connection, adoration etc. is actually the well-known and classical and scientifically proven pedophile grooming and emotional manipulation resulting in the Stockholm syndrome of sexually abused children. Not all pedophiles kidnap children, rape them and then kill them, in order to satisfy their urge, for this is a dangerous way to live. The smartest ones target a woman with a child of their preferred age and gender: the child becomes the target, everything is being planned in their mind all the time, you were targeted for your age, not for who you are. You didn't matter to him, only your age did. He was a predator.

The people who posted here, therapists or not, did it to help you see the truth, to help your healing. Calling their intervention "dark" is unfair and proves you are not ready at this point, this day, to accept the facts about your stepfather, that you were the victim of a child abuser. And this is perfectly normal and OK, post-traumatic healing after this takes a lot of work and time.

You were abused as a child, but you are not a child anymore, you are a woman surrounded by children, and it's time to woman up and face the facts in their true light and turn your experience into fighting against child abuse, if you wish, but not the other way around. The first thing you will learn with a specialist is the profile of such a predator and slowly they will help you understand the truth and set you free. But this cannot happen here on this forum, only with a specialist.

Having know-it-all wannabees here giving their opinion on the matter when you and other victims need so much healing, love and proper counsel is a bad idea. At least most people had the decency to understand you don't comment on these matters unless you know what you're talking about, either through personal experience or knowledge.

I would like to move this thread to Sweet Peas for you to discuss the impact of child sexual abuse or, if you wish, close the thread.

---

No LeeLoo.

I understand how his past, his wounds, and emotional make-up led to my abuse.

I understand what he sought from me.

He was a little boy who got hurt and sought to take back his power from a little girl.

This DOES NOT condone the abuse. It is an understanding of the mechanisms that led to it.

Nothing happens in a vacuum.

He was not born an abuser. He was created.

And, incidentally, he was a situational abuser, he did not have an exclusive attraction to children.

This was the conclusion of a specialist who worked with him.

posted May 17, 2015 08:52 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
And what are your shoes? that your stepfather loved you, worshiped you, you were his friend, his partner, his confidante? That you "triggered" something in him (synastry) for you to be abused as a child? that he was not a sick sexual predator of the worst kind?

What you describe as emotional connection, love, sexual connection, adoration etc. is actually the well-known and classical and scientifically proven pedophile grooming and emotional manipulation resulting in the Stockholm syndrome of sexually abused children. Not all pedophiles kidnap children, rape them and then kill them, in order to satisfy their urge, for this is a dangerous way to live. The smartest ones target a woman with a child of their preferred age and gender: the child becomes the target, everything is being planned in their mind all the time, you were targeted for your age, not for who you are. You didn't matter to him, only your age did. He was a predator.

The people who posted here, therapists or not, did it to help you see the truth, to help your healing. Calling their intervention "dark" is unfair and proves you are not ready at this point, this day, to accept the facts about your stepfather, that you were the victim of a child abuser. And this is perfectly normal and OK, post-traumatic healing after this takes a lot of work and time.

You were abused as a child, but you are not a child anymore, you are a woman surrounded by children, and it's time to woman up and face the facts in their true light and turn your experience into fighting against child abuse, if you wish, but not the other way around. The first thing you will learn with a specialist is the profile of such a predator and slowly they will help you understand the truth and set you free. But this cannot happen here on this forum, only with a specialist.

Having know-it-all wannabees here giving their opinion on the matter when you and other victims need so much healing, love and proper counsel is a bad idea. At least most people had the decency to understand you don't comment on these matters unless you know what you're talking about, either through personal experience or knowledge.

I would like to move this thread to Sweet Peas for you to discuss the impact of child sexual abuse or, if you wish, close the thread.

---

LeeLoo, she knows it was abuse or else she would not have made this thread regarding abuse and then discussing their aspects. Sometimes your abuser does come in a loving manner, hers did. She is expressing what she felt as a child, he have her self esteem at the same time he was destroying her....that's some of the most horrific abuse of all because of the confusion and mind games.
I don't think today she would still say he was all those things to her...but that's what she felt as a child living in that illusion he created and the abuse and that's what she was expressing.

posted May 17, 2015 08:54 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

I would like to move this thread to Sweet Peas for you to discuss the impact of child sexual abuse or, if you wish, close the thread.

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I second this.

---

So that we can continue to judge my mental health?

No thank you.

This is neither warranted, nor welcome, nor requested.

I don't require further judgement.

I wanted to discuss synastry.

Those of you who believe you know more about my mind than I do, from a thread on the internet, are the ones who want to debate.

Go ahead and make your own thread. Those discussions are in the past for me.

I am content with my conclusions.
I am happy, loved, growing, productive, stimulated, and open-minded.

posted May 17, 2015 08:59 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
LeeLoo, she knows it was abuse or else she would not have made this thread regarding abuse and then discussing their aspects. Sometimes your abuser does come in a loving manner, hers did. She is expressing what she felt as a child, he have her self esteem at the same time he was destroying her....that's some of the most horrific abuse of all because of the confusion and mind games.
I don't think today she would still say he was all those things to her...but that's what she felt as a child living in that illusion he created and the abuse and that's what she was expressing.

---

Thank you Gabby.

Yes LeeLoo, that is what he expressed TOWARD me.

Roles I was expected to fulfil.

In practice was this what was happening?
Of course not. I was being abused.

That has never been in dispute.

posted May 17, 2015 08:59 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
No LeeLoo.

I understand how his past, his wounds, and emotional make-up led to my abuse.

I understand what he sought from me.

He was a little boy who got hurt and sought to take back his power from a little girl.

This DOES NOT condone the abuse. It is an understanding of the mechanisms that led to it.

Nothing happens in a vacuum.

He was not born an abuser. He was created.

And, incidentally, he was a situational abuser, he did not have an exclusive attraction to children.

This was the conclusion of a specialist who worked with him.

---

Well, your specialists suck, you need to change them. It is a known fact serial killers and sexual predators were sometimes abused as children, but this only matters to scientists, not for the victims. He was not a boy, he was a manipulative adult who made you believe he loved you in order to abuse you. Don't let him win.

I wish you all the best. None of this is your fault, including this debate.

posted May 17, 2015 08:59 AM            

Just as a reminder. The original question was:
"Can we see Childhood Sexual Abuse in Synastry?"

posted May 17, 2015 09:03 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Well, your specialists suck, you need to change them. It is a known fact serial killers and sexual predators were abused as children, but this only matters to scientists, not for the victims. He was not a boy, he was a manipulative adult who made you believe he loved you in order to abuse you. Don't let him win.

I wish you all the best. None of this is your fault, including this debate.

I am moving this to Sweet Peas.

---

It does not belong in Sweet Peas.

Yourself, and other members took it upon themselves to start a debate about my ability to analyse my abuse.

I asked about synastry.

Why on earth should this thread be moved when it was re-routed by those more interested in my mental capacities, than the OP?

posted May 17, 2015 09:09 AM            

NOW, I have to be subject to further invalidation and scrutiny.

This is an abuse of perceived power.

To presume you know better from one thread, than those who spent YEARS working with someone is preposterous.

I request that my thread be moved back, so that I may continue to discuss the synastry with those members who were brave and respectful enough to go there with me.

If anyone else wants a debate, have enough respect to do so in your own thread.

posted May 17, 2015 09:12 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
It does not belong in Sweet Peas.

Yourself, and other members took it upon themselves to start a debate about my ability to analyse my abuse.

I asked about synastry.

Why on earth should this thread be moved when it was re-routed by those more interested in my mental capacities, than the OP?

Unbelievable.

---

posted May 17, 2015 09:12 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
I am sorry, Voix but I already said what you're going through is not your fault and that you don't have an "illness" but the OP suggests this is not the time for synastry...why not taking a break and reflect on what everyone said, maybe there is truth in it? Everybody wants the best for you

---

Yes.

I understand that several members do not have the courage or the presence of mind to discuss the synastry.