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Author
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Topic: Depression...
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Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted February 28, 2001 03:09 PM
 
I have doubts about differences in brain chemistry between normal individuals and those that are depressed. Brain scans show differences, but does a imbalance of chemicals cause depression, or does the act of thinking depressing thoughts cause the chemical imbalance? Which came first, the chicken or the egg? I say that if we focus on thoughts that depress us for prolonged periods, it temporarily alters our brain chemistry. We are what we think about on a daily basis. Depression is still very real, though! So, how can we combat it? Well, coping with Life is a learned skill. Happiness is a derivative of how we manage to cope with the obstacles Life throws at us. We all get a little down at times. But there is also a nutritional basis to depression. Pellagra (depression and dementia) can be cured with a simple niacin supplement. Let's face it, the brain needs ample B vitamins to cope with Life. No drugs, just a simple B vitamin supplement! A study was conducted recently that showed that all but one mental patient was deficient in folic acid and other B vitamins! Normally happy individuals go into depression when fed diets that deprive them of folic acid. Take your B's, and enjoy the carousel! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!  ------------------
Consider the circle, measure it please,
All its three hundred and sixty degrees.
Wasn't that fun, and haven't you found
You can do it again, the other way 'round? Now that we know how many degrees,
Must be accounted for nice as you please
Here come astrologers, what do they say?
Divide the degrees in precisely this way.
Take thirty degrees for each of the signs
It makes a nice wheel divided by lines. Chris Angelino IP: Logged |
gooberlily
Knowflake Posts: 2296
From: Brooklyn, (and Norwich) NY, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted February 28, 2001 09:56 PM
Whoa, wait a second, hold your horses. A normal thirteen year old does not go from playing with Barbies or baseballs to playing with nooses and knives. Depression has a few causes, environmental can be one of them. For true depression though, for someone who is majorly depressed and prone to major depressive periodic episodes, there is usually a hormonal or chemical imbalance as a cause, and a bad family/home life can aggravate it. People who are depressed do not get depression from reading depressed things, or watching depressed things, or being around depressed people. If those things are noticed, you should be made aware that likely the person was depressed to begin with and sought out those things on some level to help them make sense of their feelings and feel less alone. As someone personally, who has been on many legal drugs prescribed for depression (I haven't been taking anything since the age of 18, so that's six years), some drugs helped me for a little while, some did not. Sometimes I was overmedicated by a doctor or two. Prozac was a good drug for my depression, while I was on it, until it stopped working. Then I swallowed the whole bottle of pills  Depression is one thing I have a lot to say about, thank you for starting the thread! It is important to mind your vitamins, but in the case for someone who is schizophrenic, or borderline schizo-typic, such as my father, I believe prescribed drugs are in order. If you doubt this, live one week with my father when he refuses to take his medicine. We know right away, he'll deny it, and then confess and start taking his medicine again. Or, live one week like my dear friend Sherry, whose mother is schizophrenic, refused to take her medicine and now is homeless and missing, wandering somewhere out there. Not all drugs are bad in my opinion, just when they are given to people who don't need them, or are given too much.IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted February 28, 2001 11:54 PM
Interesting information, Purple.Thanks for the Enlightening information, Goober! I personally think that thought preceeds brain chemistry and not vice versa, but that's coming from a different perspective. I do see a link between hormonal changes and depression possibly. Other than that, I'm neutral (having never experienced depression at all). This is a touchy subject, so you guys keep it Light.  ------------------
Consider the circle, measure it please,
All its three hundred and sixty degrees.
Wasn't that fun, and haven't you found
You can do it again, the other way 'round? Now that we know how many degrees,
Must be accounted for nice as you please
Here come astrologers, what do they say?
Divide the degrees in precisely this way.
Take thirty degrees for each of the signs
It makes a nice wheel divided by lines. Chris Angelino IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted March 01, 2001 10:36 AM
We need a thread like this here, so let's talk about things like depression and help One another. Linda was often very depressed, and I think she would want us to talk about the subject--but make all differences of opinion in the Spirit of loving debate.  Feel free to tell us more, Goober! As a person who has never been truly depressed, I would like more info. Thanks!  ------------------
Consider the circle, measure it please,
All its three hundred and sixty degrees.
Wasn't that fun, and haven't you found
You can do it again, the other way 'round? Now that we know how many degrees,
Must be accounted for nice as you please
Here come astrologers, what do they say?
Divide the degrees in precisely this way.
Take thirty degrees for each of the signs
It makes a nice wheel divided by lines. Chris Angelino IP: Logged |
LMB
Moderator Posts: 653
From: Cooltown, USA
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted March 01, 2001 01:04 PM
Well, as someone right in the middle of depression, and who will always struggle in life, I feel I have some things to say, but I don't know what they are. It's difficult for me to form and share my opinions, in any forum, because I was raised with a father who was very invalidating and minimalizing and who taught me that my opinions didn't matter. As for medication, that is a subject that's tearing my hair out right now. I'm on three medications and they've helped stabilize my mood (I missed a dose one night and had a horrible time of it hte next morning) but I now realize that in the past four years, it has severely handicapped my ability to concentrate and take in information and remember it. It is so very frustrating to be in school right now, nearing my degree and wanting to give it all up so easily. I believe people are born being more suseptible than others to the ebb and flow of life. some are more sensitive than others. Some are more able to take on life's winds and storms.
Starting at the age of three, you are starting to learn things you will be embedded with the rest of your life. By the time you are twelve, you have already learned it. So you see how parents have such an impact on how you view yours-elf and life. Environment has so much to do with it all. I'm not ruling out chemistry, either. I do think there's a tie, but it's different for everyone just as we are all different. I don't know if I've made any sense. I hope I have.  Much love,
LMB IP: Logged |
YIVY
Knowflake Posts: 4747
From: Louisiana
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted March 01, 2001 05:44 PM
For years I took medicine for depression and finally threw them all away. I admit I do take St. John's wort now, BUT...The best and cheapest remedy for depression is action. When I feel one of those 'black hole' moods coming on I tear into something physically...something that is hard and tiring. Yard work, remodeling, any new and intersting project. The trick is to not put it off. Even if you are about to jump off the bridge, just start something. At first it will be like 'why bother', but then you get so involved you lose yourself in it. The more physical the better. It is hard to be depressed when you are exhausted from heavy labor. It is like, I am too tired to think right now, so I will be depressed after a good night's sleep. This is experience talking...it is not exercise (which is boring and goes nowhere), but productive physical labor... It is worth a try...  ------------------ @~>~~
YIVY
"Witchy Woman" IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted March 01, 2001 06:48 PM
I like the way you describe how people react differently to the ebb and flow of Life, LMB. I agree. You did very well in describing how children develop their coping mechanisms early on in Life. By the way, your opinions DO matter, not just here but in general, too. What you think, feel, and say are all valid. ------------------
Consider the circle, measure it please,
All its three hundred and sixty degrees.
Wasn't that fun, and haven't you found
You can do it again, the other way 'round? Now that we know how many degrees,
Must be accounted for nice as you please
Here come astrologers, what do they say?
Divide the degrees in precisely this way.
Take thirty degrees for each of the signs
It makes a nice wheel divided by lines. Chris Angelino IP: Logged |
YIVY
Knowflake Posts: 4747
From: Louisiana
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted March 01, 2001 08:48 PM
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@~>~~
YIVY
"Witchy Woman" IP: Logged |
gooberlily
Knowflake Posts: 2296
From: Brooklyn, (and Norwich) NY, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted March 01, 2001 09:44 PM
I believe everyone here is doing a wonderful job discussing their feelings on the topic. I'm sorry if I sounded grouchy in my post, I didn't mean to There are so many things that contribute to depression, and going back to your whole thing Randall, "which came first, the chicken or the egg"...I do believe that certain people are born predisposed to depression, and I believe depression isn't caused by an outside source (such as media, etc.) BUT, I do have to say something important on influence...how an influence can foster and cause depression...if the person is a child (such as LMB or myself) and their self-image is damaged by someone close to them, in that sense depression can be caused by an influence outside the self. But, then it becomes part of the self, the persons own perception of the self is damaged, many times without repair. We are told millions of times over, that we are the only ones who are responsible for our lives and our mistakes. It's true, to a large extent, however, I think it's important for those who are depressed and come from an abusive background to realize that it was not their fault. A lot of therapists mistakenly tell their patients "Yes, but that was all in the past. We're talking about now. You are responsible for the way you feel now." The hurt has to be traced to its root and dealt with...you have to start at the beginning and move forward, not try to heal in a backwards fashion. Or, at least those are just my opinions. Everyone has depression at some point in their life. There's the: I have no money, I have no job, I have no life depression. There's the: Nobody will ever love me for who I am depression. There's the: I'm a loser who will never amount to anything, and my opions mean nothing depression. There's the: I don't know why I'm depressed, but I am. I don't want to be here anymore depression. They all have different reasons, and different ways of making sense out of them. It's hard. And I think it's an excellent idea YIVY, to do something if you feel a little depression coming on. The challenge in this life for me is to turn something de-structive into something con-structive. Hang in there folks, and I apologize again if I sound snitty at any point, I'm not mad, just being self-protective, because if I feel my feelings aren't validated, I'm not validated as a person. That's my soft spot IP: Logged |
YIVY
Knowflake Posts: 4747
From: Louisiana
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted March 02, 2001 12:03 AM
GooberLily...OK, my childhood 'sucked' big time...I know where you are coming from.And, yes, a lot can be traced back to that, BUT...it can be overcome.
In that you are also right...what irks me is how a lot of people use that as an excuse for their present 'adult' behavior. Sure it takes determination and a lot of trial and error, but it doesn't have to completely taint your adulthood. The first thing is to say to yours-elf...RIGHT NOW I AM WHO I AM AND I TAKE MY OWN RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY ACTIONS. I CHOOSE TO BE WHAT I CHOOSE TO BE!! Much Kudos to you and LMB who have decided to take back their lives. All who have done so should be very PROUD of that...to those who still have trouble dealing with life, be hopeful and adament in your determination to create your own way. It can be done! 
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@~>~~
YIVY
"Witchy Woman" IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted March 02, 2001 02:02 AM
Goober, there is not (and never will be) censorship on this site. Say what you feel, and you never have to apologize for who you are, how you feel, or what you think. I don't want any Knowflakes to be afraid to speak their Mind (or their Heart). ------------------
Consider the circle, measure it please,
All its three hundred and sixty degrees.
Wasn't that fun, and haven't you found
You can do it again, the other way 'round? Now that we know how many degrees,
Must be accounted for nice as you please
Here come astrologers, what do they say?
Divide the degrees in precisely this way.
Take thirty degrees for each of the signs
It makes a nice wheel divided by lines. Chris Angelino IP: Logged |
financechick
Knowflake Posts: 643
From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted March 09, 2001 09:57 PM
I have much to say on the subject as well...I am currently being treated for depression..I have been on the drug effexor since right before the holiday's..I have never been depressed or been on anti-depressant medication in my life...and my depression is/was caused by a traumatic event in my life that I won't elaborate on at this moment..but the point is....this "thing" happened and sometimes things happen that ,you are mentally unable to handle and the brain either shuts down in some way, malfunctions or overloads...this is my situation.....I mean..I suffered terribly from anorexia as a teenager and the doctors wanted to put me on anti depressant meds...but I said no..despite the low recovery rate for people with anorexia...I chose to do it on my own and DID...I am very mentally strong...but there are things that can just crush you mentally....I'm hoping to be off of the effexor in a few months...I just needed something to get me thinking clearly again....without them I feel "plugged in" all the time like fireworks going off inside my head....due to mental anguish....I do believe in chemical imbalances in the brain for people with manic depressive disorders/ bi polar or whathaveyou....anything is possible.I don't like taking pills...never have...but sometimes you have to make some tough choices...I will not use the drugs as a crutch and I will not become dependant on them. The human psyche is very complex, I don't think we can generalize about depression and mental disorder...is it genetics or environment or a ocmbination of both? Who knows...all I know is that I'm sure I wouldn't have gotten depressed had I never had the "truamatic" experience that I had. and that's all I have to say about that. SHERRY  IP: Logged |
gooberlily
Knowflake Posts: 2296
From: Brooklyn, (and Norwich) NY, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted March 10, 2001 12:24 AM
Great post Sherry. You reminded me that there are many different causes and reasons for depression. And, whatever causes it...once it's there it is a day to day thing, taking one step at a time, seeing what helps and works for the person and what doesn't. If you're on something right now, and it's working for you, I'm happy for ya'. Take it easy and hang in there.  IP: Logged |
LMB
Moderator Posts: 653
From: Cooltown, USA
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted March 26, 2001 01:51 PM
So I've been having bad back problems for a while now and I have this groovy holistic chiropractor place I go to called Healing Hands. My usual person was booked so I said I'd try this new guy out. HE was FABULOUS. Very kind eyes and I immediately knew he was good.
He does deep tissue muscle bodywork and scans for energy (a lot like Reiki which I like). He spent time holding my ankles and bringing them together various times. Just repeating that. It was funny, I think he was asking my feet questions and they were answering them!
He did some heavy duty deep muscle work which hurt like the dickens but afterward it felt SO much better. He said I have lots of knots and inflammation. So why is this under the depression column? Because of this: he explained to me (and I don't know much about anatomy) that there is this tube or something around our brain and our spinal cord (chord) and when that gets twisted or turnred it can cause us alot of pain AND make us more prone to depression and anxiety.
Interesting, no?
 LMB
IP: Logged |
YIVY
Knowflake Posts: 4747
From: Louisiana
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted March 26, 2001 08:37 PM
Most interesting....  ------------------
@~>~~
YIVY
"Witchy Woman" IP: Logged |
gooberlily
Knowflake Posts: 2296
From: Brooklyn, (and Norwich) NY, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted March 27, 2001 12:23 AM
Great info LMB, thanks for sharing!  IP: Logged |
financechick
Knowflake Posts: 643
From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted March 27, 2001 08:29 AM
yes..I used to see a specific chairopractor...only adjusts the 2 vertabrae (I KNOW I spelled that wrong!!!) in your neck...says that BRAIN STEM can create malfunctions if those bones are pressing on it....kind of makes sense if you think about it...TROY ( my Chairo) says to imagine as if the brain stem had a "kink" in it like a water hose....all the "water" can't get by...realte this to the brain stem...if those bones are pressing on it....all the "messages" can't get through...or CAN but just not Correctly...causing headaches...tiredness...muscle tension....pretty logical if you ask me!! IP: Logged |
gooberlily
Knowflake Posts: 2296
From: Brooklyn, (and Norwich) NY, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted March 27, 2001 10:01 PM
How interesting! Gotta get me one of those chiro-people  I get a stiff back a lot, and every night before I go to sleep I have to crack one of my lower vertebrae (probably didn't spell that right  ) before I go to sleep, or I toss and turn all night. IP: Logged |
financechick
Knowflake Posts: 643
From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted March 27, 2001 11:09 PM
Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm getting off of my anti-depressants...time to face reality you K-NOW? I think I'm strong enough to handle it now and accept things. You K-NOW, sometimes things happen to you that you just don't know how to deal with, you just don't want it to be a part of you...but ultimately, you have to find some happy medium, you have to find peace with yourself and don't let the bad things get the best of you...becasue then the BAD GUYS WIN and we can't have that happen.You know, I always thought that I was invincable to a degree, that the really HORRIBLE things happen to other people but that's not the case, that's not how life is, Bad things happen to all kinds of people and we are faced with things that we never want to have to face. For a long time I felt like I was on the outside looking in but I'm starting to see that isn't the case anymore but I'm still an observer...a visitor. I'm learning that. I have to stop "beating myself up" and I have to stop looking for the method to the madness...some things just can't be explained...you know...Ihave to become better at "accepting the things I cannot change....the courage to K-NOW the difference..." a wise man once said: "It is not the critic who counts nor the man who points out where the stong man stumbles, nor where the doer of deeds could have done better. On the contrary, the credit belongs to the man who is actually IN the arena-who's vision is marred by the dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiatly, who errs and comes up short again and again, who knows the great devotions the great enthusiasims, who at best K-NOWS the triumph of great achievement. However, if he fails, at least he fails by daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who K-NOWS neither victory nor defeat." IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted March 27, 2001 11:30 PM
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"The ancestor to every action is a thought." EMERSON IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted March 28, 2001 01:52 AM
By the way, FC, I'm not sure if you caught this, but the "blue pill or red pill" reference is from The Matrix. A great movie for you sci fi fans out there.  ------------------
"The ancestor to every action is a thought." EMERSON IP: Logged |
gooberlily
Knowflake Posts: 2296
From: Brooklyn, (and Norwich) NY, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted March 28, 2001 11:27 PM
FC, I wish you lots of success in dropping the meds. I stopped 6 or so years ago, and have been doing quite well coping ever since! So, as long as you feel that you're ready for it, I'm behind you all the way.I love your quote, who wrote it? It's great! IP: Logged |
financechick
Knowflake Posts: 643
From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted March 29, 2001 08:06 AM
GB...Theodore Roosevelt said it at some speech.I have been off of the meds for 3 days...I found out last night..I got a 64 on my Accounting midterm  ...I have not had a score that low since my freshman year of high school...the only thing I can attribute it to is that darn medicine!!! Made me like a zombie..though it did help to numb my emotions which I needed at the time...so now I have to work TWICE as hard to pull my grade up so I can at least get a B for the semester.... GOOD GRIEF!!! IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted March 29, 2001 03:51 PM
I get a VERY strong feeling that you will consider this grade to be a Blessing (even though you are now thinking, "Yeah, right!") ------------------
"The ancestor to every action is a thought." EMERSON IP: Logged |
gooberlily
Knowflake Posts: 2296
From: Brooklyn, (and Norwich) NY, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted March 29, 2001 09:14 PM
No wonder why I liked the quote, my great grandpa was good friends with Teddy Roosevelt! My great grandpa Charles Swan Devoy was a judge in the Supreme Court in NY, (before they became all strict with qualifications to be a judge, when laws changed during the beginning of the 20th century my g-grandpa had to step down from the bench). The family went to Teddy's house in the summer, and Teddy wrote a recommendation letter for my g-grandpa when he was looking for a new job  Anti-depressants used to make me space out quite a bit FC, (more than usual, I guess ) Everything will straighten itself out, hang in there! You're a very intelligent person, I'm sure your next grade will be higher than your last one. Don't be discouraged! IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
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