posted November 26, 2010 10:57 PM         

You know, LL has gone through so many ups and downs, shouts about censorship, anger, people being banned, a few mass exoduses (is that a word) and yet it remains.

PlutoSquared,

You remind me a lot of me when I first started on LL. You can ask any of the other old timers about how full of p1ss and vinegar I was (and sometimes can still be). I had (and still have at times) a very sharp keyboard (since I am not talking I can't say "tongue").

I like the sweet peas forum and would have really loved it 8 years ago when I was posting a few too many umm... sexual things (like Sextrology) but I learned. I had my fingers knocked to the dirt a few times for my lack of tact while posting. I also saw myself as the great defender of LL and anyone I saw as a troll I wanted to slice into two pieces. LOL... but, then I learned that I am not the great defender and people learn on their own accord. My Sag Sun / Aries moon has mellowed out over the years.

Hang in there- it will all even out and as far as LL... well, things will even out here as well. They always do.

posted November 26, 2010 10:59 PM         

quote:

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Character is tested in situations like this. So is leadership. Everyone in a position of leadership here is being tested right now.

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I agree. We are always being tested, sometimes it`s the biggie like this.

We will have knee jerk reactions with resulting bloody noses. Either we reflect and face our personal issues first then address the whole or we will continue the process until we get it right or our soul bleeds to death.

Healing comes from with in and spreads outwards. This is the golden opportunity for a cleansing of self and community. Use it, abuse it or lose it

May we all pass the tests of life/self and advance to a greater level of understanding of our human sisters and brothers.

juni

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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted November 26, 2010 11:04 PM         

quote:

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being a moderator is a hard job. We're given a few sentences in the beginning then given our Excaliburs. It means biting the bullet, being VERY objective, its no different than working customer services.

you are here to serve the forum and its members.

i see power tripping, and squabbles.

if you are a moderator, and you are keeping personal - personal conflict with a member out of your relation to them and remain objective and solution-searching as possible, you are likely doing your job very well.

a moderator should be able to take a step back, evaluate maturely waht is going on and make the right decision that brings the temprature down, not heat it up (and create more outrage to be defused :-\ ).

members will be unfair to moderators at times [and they might even CRITICIZE!! EEEK THE END OF THE WORLD!!] but they will be dealt with or punished if necessary to resolve the situation. in that position as a moderator, you have to be able to handle this, not let your personal subjective sensitive (over)reaction to whats taking place, get ahold of you.

most importantly, a moderator needs to know when to let it go.

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New Mods here originally learned the ropes by closely interacting with the veteran mods. Since by now, I'm not sure how many of us older/ex-mods would relish walking into such a "teaching" position, given the "compassion" dressed in hobnail boots I've seen members endure here for the past week, I fear the new regime will have to strive to live up to their great honor and serious jobs without the benefit of much of the wisdom of the past and the ones who went before. As most of you new mods reject what we veterans have to say anyway, without even completely hearing us out, I guess there's very little left to say except Good Journey.

Except one thing from me: If you email me, PlutoSquared, to ask questions or gather opinion, I will answer you. Regardless of my voluntary lack of standing at this place now, I STILL CARE about LL and want to see if we can arrive at a compromise that most can work with. I understand the reasons for your defensiveness, your gloating and your power-tripping, though you might think I don’t. Perhaps this thread has opened eyes today, and that tomorrow LL can begin healing.

posted November 26, 2010 11:11 PM         

quote:

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StarofVenusgirl,
Please be specific. Do you want Randall do dismiss the new moderators? Is that what you think is best?

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With all due respect, that solution is incredibly simplistic.

I would like for a sincere effort to be made to understand the various gripes of the members and ex-members, and for a deeply respected member of the overall community to attempt to negotiate a resolution that will be acceptable to all, with a consensus. And then for that resolution to be implemented, as a final resolution.

I know this is not a democracy. But it is a community. And that's how communities function. Together.

EDIT: An 11:11 post. That's always an excellent sign (on page 11 too).

Carry on...

posted November 26, 2010 11:22 PM         

Because if I do feel that way, it wasn't until VERY recently.

But even if I do feel that way, there are also multiple new mods on which to provide an opinion...and I am also only one member.

posted November 26, 2010 11:25 PM         

if you dont mind me asking, what has made you feel this way?

posted November 26, 2010 11:28 PM         

Mods are chosen from a group of members that hopefully will represent the works of the community ie Linda Goodman.

It is not a special status but trust placed in an individual to uphold the best interests and behaviors of the Community.

Truely, it is that simple.

There is only an attack where one sees one. Or, one could see it through a cleaner filter and see a possable chance to grow beyond the current behavior/belief system.

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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted November 26, 2010 11:31 PM         

Randall, that's fine. But that's what it feels like to me. I don't quite feel like a hostage negotiator, but certainly like a diplomat engaged in some very delicate and complex talks and both parties are armed with nukes and have their finger on the button.

posted November 26, 2010 11:31 PM         

no, dont worry star, i'm not upset, i respect your opinion and it would be unfair of me to be upset over a minor thing as moderatorship

posted November 26, 2010 11:35 PM         

Lara already posted it! here

People are not seeing/reading the full story, (still) but that really isn't the point anymore is it?

Re: juni

quote:

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I have seen the comings and goings here for quite some time. Oh so many storms weathered. But I have never seem an attempt of such control. That I believe is the root issue.

Candidly, I don`t for one second, believe it is because of the new forum. Issues may have spun off it but it did not cause it.

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quote:

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Kat:
i have said it before but i think lara has done this site a HUGE service in keeping the question open. someone had to do it. sweeping things under the rug creates a truce, not peace OR understanding

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quote:

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Unmoved:
And, for sure, if I didn't give Randall the benefit of the doubt with his choices, and if I wasn't a Mod, I'd be banned because PlutoSquared disrespected not only the people she was addressing, but everyone who had tried hard to keep this community evolved.

---

AG stated in another one of these threads I have been reading that (paraphrase)

LL is a sum of it's parts. That no-- one-- person is Lindaland, we are Lindaland. Something that he has mentioned before that really rings with me.

I just saw the locked thread in Astro2 - Lala was handling things quite well- here

I do not understand the police state. And perhaps it is because I always question authority.

posted November 26, 2010 11:38 PM         

We put forth our personal feelings or perceptions and call it truth .

What happened her has been brewing for a while and took hold with the last mess. It`s not about who~s mods or not. I admit, for many, it is a muddied blob and and can only be perceived through their owm filters.

I understand that

So we listen and learn from all and reach an objective solution. Hopefully, that`s the goal we are reaching for.

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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted November 27, 2010 03:30 AM         

what i FEAR is that someone will say something, speak their mind, and it will be called contention or dissent and they will be jumped upon in the name of this new seeming pseudo-peace.

randall and pluto you've made admirable attempts at hearing us out and i hope it is genuine and comes with some deeper understanding that is needed. i don't think anyone on this 'side' is opposed to your ideas in principle and i really do feel we are all on the same page in terms of not wanting anyone to be insulted and for there to be peace; it's just the methods used, the force with which they were executed and the seeming hypocrisy in some of these acts that are difficult, if not impossible to swallow. and i feel that is what we felt like we were being told we had to do, which is why this got so out of hand.

posted November 27, 2010 06:36 AM         

not insulting: if you are tired go to bed

insulting: you suck, get some sleep and lets see if you suck less tomorrow.

the new mods have to gain a better understanding of inflamitory catch words. new mods should not be fast to call someone insulting, rude, flamer or anything else unless they see it plain as day and it really is an issue.

the new mods should not suggest members find the door. as many left when they did. smart people with life experience who do not wish to be talked to in such a manner.

new mods should understand the basics of debate, how it is done, what is acceptable.

new mods should be consistantly nuetral.

new mods should never refer to randall as daddy, that grosses people out.

new mods should take the time to look something up prior to correcting people if they don't know the subject matter fully, they should be willing to educate themselves, learn and grow as part of a community.

but mostly, new mods should be respectful listeners. injecting peace, injecting fairness, injecting kindness, injecting things that will make the site better and boost morale instead of destroy it with harsh strong words used inappropriately.

mods should not be suggesting members leave, as a diverse community is to be desired and a worthy goal.

censoring of self prior to censoring of others.

ask yourself, is this an actual insult, or do i just feel insulted because i was wrong?

ask yourself, do i look up stuff i don't know that much about, or do i fly off the handle and insist i am right when i may not be?

is my interference in this matter necessary?
no name calling, no cursing, maybe not, maybe i should let grown ups who are debating properly although not agreeing alone to work it out or come to an understanding.

no matter the age, some maturity needs to be shown for the position.

and yes, i suggest that those who can not do this, should not have the position.

words like attack, rude, insulting, flamers ..are not necessary every single day or in many many of the situations that they are bandied about so carelessly.

Randall, do you agree with me? honestly, i don't think ami should be a mod. nor nickig. pluto squared is learning, that i can dig from what she wrote in this thread.

ami and nickig consider people to be rude and insulting when they are not, which is counter productive.
then ami always offers the door, just leave. again counter productive
then gives her email and ask everyone to be her friend. which is passive aggressive and very confusing as it does not make sense or line up at all with her other words. consistancy
self control
consideration of words used
fairness.

if they are not capable of these things, then no, they shouldn't be moderators. one must first moderate themselves prior to moderating others.

a person of integrity and understanding would get what i am saying. a person of ignorance would see what i said as insulting, rude or attacking. which it is clearly not.

these are the problems with the new moderation here. v was fairly new when she took the job, however, she never uses those types of word, tactics or communicates in a manner people find offensive. consider my words please.

posted November 27, 2010 08:15 AM         

True sometimes people are unnecessarily rude and inflammatory and these people would deserve to be banned.

But there have been times lately on LL when such angry reactions were triggered by passive-aggressive behaviour that is not very obvious.

Such passive aggressive people can also be trolls..and you should keep a look out. That was partially my point in the other thread. Because one passive aggressive person can incite 20 to anger.. And so you might ban the 20... But is that really the best thing to do?
I am not saying that this is definitely what happened, but I have the sense that it could be a very real possibility.
I mention this primarily because I have heard about this person's past forum.. And they seem to have been involved in it's destruction.
As per my thread - it could just be coincidental..
My hunch is that it isn't. *******

posted November 27, 2010 12:15 PM         

I hope the new mods can take that ESSENTIAL information to heart, examine their own motives/ego/humility BEFORE they start typing each reply post in a sensitive situation, ask their inner higher power for clarity, THEN say what they wish to say.

Members look to the mods for leadership - you just aren't "one of the rabble" anymore ;D
You are held to a higher standard, and it lets the whole community down if you cannot live up to and maintain that standard.

And just a small informational note: once upon a time, Randall made Valus a Mod, then demoted him for behavior unbecoming a Moderator and Representative of Lindaland.....