posted June 13, 2015 05:03 AM            

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Originally posted by CosmiqPhuz:
Cmon ladies. Do you really want to believe that those lusty feelings of turning into a sexomatic-Venus-freak are purely because of culture and society?

That feeling in your loins has to be coming from something more wild, more innate, more untamed.

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how do you explain men being attracted to super model skinny women over more full-figured curvier women from an evolutionary perspective?

posted June 13, 2015 08:41 AM            

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Originally posted by bansheequeen:
Is that really why? And how do you know sexual opportunities are that hard to come by for other men in America? A lot of foreigners seem to think Americans are easy.
Ppp
You say "put up with female bs to get laid" like men are entitled to stick his **** into women without putting up with their "bs." So what, we should just lay there with our legs open so men can just **** us whenever they wNt, regardless of if we actually WANT to or not?

And seriously? It's not sad to you that some women have to sell an intimate experience like that for money. And that man will pay a woman to have something done to her that she probably doesn't want but is only doing it for the money? And also, sex trafficking is a huge problem in those countries, and in America too believe it or not... People are being kidnapped to be forced into a life of prostitution.

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posted June 13, 2015 10:47 AM            

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Originally posted by CosmiqPhuz:
Well, Bansheequeen, if I must repeat myself again, what's another time, right?

I never said humans' desires are nothing more than their animal instincts. I said that primal instincts are one piece of the puzzle. Read my posts carefully, I'm not contradicting myself. I even gave an example that big breasts aren't a deal breaker for me. Do they make me turn my head and go "shwing"? Sure, I can't help it.

Also, if a woman tells me I'm handsome, I'm pretty sure she's not creeped out.

And I also am not saying that rich men are necessarily cheating on their linear wives. But it's possible. All I'm saying is that you can't take everything at face value. I mean, c'mon, 50% of marriages end in divorce. That means not every couple you see walking down the street is happy/content/satisfied. You will never know what is exactly going in anyone's mind except your own.

Aquacheeka, we're gonna have to agree to disagree. Everything is NOT cultural/learned/nurtured. What do you think the first humans did to survive? They relied on primal instinct. There was no culture to follow. Women chose strong males as partners for protection because there weren't laws/USA/Japan/cops/rules/etc back then! Just because you prefer Brandon Boyd from Incubus doesn't prove anything. Or perhaps it does. Why don't you have a thing for Mike Einziger, the shorter, smaller statured guitarist? He's thoughtful, smart, seems gentle.

Aquaguy, all I'm gonna say is good luck man. People are gonna believe what they wanna believe. At least we tried.

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posted June 13, 2015 10:54 AM            

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Originally posted by mercuranian:

how do you explain men being attracted to super model skinny women over more full-figured curvier women from an evolutionary perspective?

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posted June 13, 2015 10:57 AM            

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Originally posted by CosmiqPhuz:
As for the argument that the Japanese have entirely different attraction principles due to culture, you must also be aware that caucasians and asians have slight genetic differences. Slight, but enough to create different biological traits. As do Africans and so on.

While I am not dismissing the fact that culture plays a large part, a lot of it stems from a biological difference.

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posted June 13, 2015 10:59 AM            

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Originally posted by mercuranian:

how do you explain men being attracted to super model skinny women over more full-figured curvier women from an evolutionary perspective?

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I believe he would claim that this is nonsense and they're all lying to themselves when they choose skinny women . But are following their gut instincts when they choose women who are younger. No contradiction there, right?

posted June 13, 2015 11:13 AM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[QUOTE
Because I've talked to enough men and seen enough men to know that the average guy in America isn't getting laid with any kind of regularity. Sure the average guy might get the occasional hook-up or end up in a relationship every so often but they go through long dry spells spanning months or years.

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I have a friend who goes a year or two between relationships because he only wants to date skinny women who are significantly younger than he is. He says his d**k won't get hard for a girl unless her body is reasonably tight and that that's not voluntary. He's in his mid-30's and rather hefty himself. This same friend used to years ago (he doesn't anymore or I doubt we'd still be friends) try and guilt me by saying that I'd probably "give him a chance" if he were skinnier, because we get along so well as friends. Completely overlooking the fact that his house is a mess and he's a smoker, both of which mean that no, I wouldn't date him even if he DID have a lower BMI than he does. But even if I preferred men who aren't as large as he is, so what? I work out hard and why shouldn't I be able to date a man who is also fit and active like me? I mean, he is the one specifically pursuing women whose bodies look nothing like his.

posted June 13, 2015 11:34 AM            

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:

So even there, such a claim would be flat-out wrong. Humans are not three races.

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I'm not saying humans are three races. I'm saying when you're trying to figure something out as complex as attraction in humans, you have to take into account the differences between the different genetics. So in a way, you have to treat them like different species or breeds.

For example, when leukemia and lymphoma patients are waiting for a bone marrow donor, the doctor is searching the registries made of people with the same ethnicity. There's more chance an Asian donor is gonna match an Asian patient than a white donor. It has to do with the different protein content and genetic material.

Politically and ethically, all humans are equal. Biologically, they are not.

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
I believe he would claim that this is nonsense and they're all lying to themselves when they choose skinny women . But are following their gut instincts when they choose women who are younger. No contradiction there, right?

We can't extract the individual from their culture, and thus can't determine what aspect of attraction is "primal" and genetic and what isn't. The only theory I personally subscribe to is that humans have an inborn and universal attraction to faces that reflect the "golden ratio." That attraction exists independent of gender. Anything else, like preferences for body type, body art, height, muscle mass, accents, races, etc. is cultural and influenced by the average in our immediate environment, as well as the media.

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See my response above.

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:

Who says I don't like him? Brandon, Mike and their bassist Ben Kenney are my favourites in the band, but I don't particularly like Einziger's facial features enough to isolate him as a crush. However, my most enduring celebrity crush is on Chris Carrabba of Dashboard Confessional who I've loved since I was 15 and am going to see in concert on Monday.
He's very handsome, pensive, sensitive, brilliant, and 5'4.

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Haha ok, but whose picture did you put up?

I liked Incubus with their original bassist Alex (Fungus Among Us, Science, Make Yourself, Morning View). They seriously turned into a boy band after they got Ben.

And god, I hate Dashboard Confessional. So whiney.

posted June 13, 2015 11:51 AM            

1. They're looking at it as a black-and-white issue and keep thinking that I'm claiming it's the only factor in attraction.

2. I can't help but suspect that maybe the ladies who are arguing this also don't necessarily fit the 2 examples I gave of big breasts and wide hips and they're taking it personally. There's other attractive features, not just those 2!

posted June 13, 2015 11:56 AM            

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Originally posted by CosmiqPhuz:
Haha ok, but whose picture did you put up?

I liked Incubus with their original bassist Alex (Fungus Among Us, Science, Make Yourself, Morning View). They seriously turned into a boy band after they got Ben.

And god, I hate Dashboard Confessional. So whiney.

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Well I agree that Morning View was Incubus' best album but they've still made some worthwhile stuff since then imo like Anna Molly, Admiration from the Stealth soundtrack and heck, even their latest single Absolution Calling I really like.

posted June 13, 2015 12:08 PM            

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
As for Dashboard I've doubt you've heard enough of their stuff to really make a proper judgment, or if you have there's no accounting for taste , but their massive success should prove that many women are not attracted to stoicism, but prefer emotional honesty and vulnerability in a man (as would be expected since we all have differing astrological signatures). So much for ag's alpha theory .

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Sure, music has to be emotional to be worth a damn to me. The feeling-sorry-for-yourself and melodramatic stuff just doesn't appeal to me. But to each their own.

posted June 13, 2015 12:25 PM            

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Originally posted by CosmiqPhuz:
Yes exactly, I think the different biological predispositions would affect the natural primal preferences in attraction. Almost like, you have to treat the different ethnicities as different species in a way. Due to the natural habitat and food available in Asia, especially when it was still isolated, a man would rarely develop the bone structure and muscle mass equivalent to a man living in Europe with different climate and foods.

So in turn, the biological differences helped influence the cultures' development. And culture has evolved and changed.

And with the world becoming more of a melting pot, people mixing races, having different foods available to them that their ancestors didn't have, living in different environments, more cultures being discovered, it's a wonder anyone can pinpoint the main factor in attraction.

So, if there is one point I am trying to drive home after this long grueling discussion, it's that there is indeed a primal instinct in our attraction along with everything else.

To say that a primal instinct doesn't exist is ignoring thousands of years of evolution before culture or civilization. And to claim that culture is the main factor in attraction is only speculation.

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Saying attraction is purely biological is speculation as well. Soy ours not driving any point home you're going around in circles.

When I find a certain type of man attractive I honestly don't think it's evolutionarily makes sense. Because honestly, I do like the kind of guy that's slightly unnaturally larger than the average guy. Someone that probably does take extra care to be more muscular lol. But that's actually not natural if you think about it. Because they have to work at it, they aren't made like that and certainly wouldn't become like that by fighting saber tooth tigers and hunting dodos alone,

posted June 13, 2015 12:30 PM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bansheequeen:
[b] Is that really why? And how do you know sexual opportunities are that hard to come by for other men in America? A lot of foreigners seem to think Americans are easy.
Ppp
You say "put up with female bs to get laid" like men are entitled to stick his **** into women without putting up with their "bs." So what, we should just lay there with our legs open so men can just **** us whenever they wNt, regardless of if we actually WANT to or not?

And seriously? It's not sad to you that some women have to sell an intimate experience like that for money. And that man will pay a woman to have something done to her that she probably doesn't want but is only doing it for the money? And also, sex trafficking is a huge problem in those countries, and in America too believe it or not... People are being kidnapped to be forced into a life of prostitution.

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No it's not jealousy of hookers that's making me argue against them lol. I don't want a male hooker. I would never pay a guy for sex lol. It's an emotional topic because women... No,,,, children get kidnapped all the time to be forced into prostitution. In some countries they get sold by their parents. I know you just like the idea of available sex, but the implication of it are more serious than you want road I to yourself. But I guess as long as you get to pay for sex, you're happy.

posted June 13, 2015 12:31 PM            

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Originally posted by bansheequeen:
Saying attraction is purely biological is speculation as well.

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For the last time, I'm not saying attraction is purely biological. You can even look at my post that you quoted, I'm saying it's a factor along with everything else. Jesus Christ.

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Originally posted by bansheequeen:
And it's been proven ~*~scientifically~*~ that humans are not different species.

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See my response to Aquacheeka above.

posted June 13, 2015 12:34 PM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
BansheeQueen,
Now to address what you said about foreigners thinking women are easier here. That is true if the man happens to be from the UK or Australia. Women here are obsessed with men with those accents. There's a significant number of women here who would hook up with a man from those places based on their accent alone. It's kind of like me.... I have a very thick southern accent and when I travel outside the region (southeast) I get positive reactions from women because they like my accent. Like I said women are obsessed with that kind of crap because its a novelty to them. So I have no doubt that I could go to a big city like New York and have women develop a superficial interest in me and maybe even get hook-ups based on my accent alone. For whatever reason men with British,Australian, and Southern accents have an almost universal appeal outside of their respective countries/regions. That doesn't apply to men from other places from what I have seen.

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First you say women here have iron vaginas, then you say we're so easy we'd sleep with a guy just for the novelty of his accent. I'm confused.

posted June 13, 2015 12:36 PM            

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Originally posted by CosmiqPhuz:
I don't know if super skinny vs fuller figure has anything to do with evolution. But if you're talking Victoria's secret models, most of them have wide hips, big boobs, and gorgeous faces. And they're nice to look at. From a sexual standpoint, a skinnier girl you can throw around in bed and do more positions. That's not to say a fuller figure woman can't be fun in bed either. They're certainly getting laid too.

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Okay but using your own logic here..... Wouldn't the fuller figure lady be preferred over the skinner Victoria's secret to of girl because she is biologically superior due to having larger breadth and hips? I mean that is the point you have been arguing for DAYS now. Daaaaayyyyysssss

posted June 13, 2015 12:42 PM            

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Originally posted by bansheequeen:
Okay but using your own logic here..... Wouldn't the fuller figure lady be preferred over the skinner Victoria's secret to of girl because she is biologically superior due to having larger breadth and hips? I mean that is the point you have been arguing for DAYS now. Daaaaayyyyysssss

And you talk about faces now. When did faces start existing for you? Is an aesthetic appreciation for faces biological? How does a nice face let you know how fertile or good at poppin out babies a woman is?i want to hear this because it's going to b ridiculous.

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The Victoria's Secret models are skinny AND have big boobs and wide hips. What's your argument here?

Read my posts above, I'm sick of repeating myself. It wouldn't take days if you'd just read.

Is anyone else here amused/frustrated by bansheequeen's lack of reading comprehension?

posted June 13, 2015 12:49 PM            

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Originally posted by CosmiqPhuz:
I'm noticing 3 things from the people arguing against primal instinct here:

1. They're looking at it as a black-and-white issue and keep thinking that I'm claiming it's the only factor in attraction.

2. I can't help but suspect that maybe the ladies who are arguing this also don't necessarily fit the 2 examples I gave of big breasts and wide hips and they're taking it personally. There's other attractive features, not just those 2!

3. I'm getting no arguments from men

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You kind of are. And you're fun to argue with. It's like you came up with these theories and you're getting but thirty that people don't think it's the bible.

Not really. Most western women I think are bombarded since childhood they need to have small bodies. Of course it doesn't really seem like men care in real life so much, but ask any woman and most will say that they think that is the ideal. And seriously, you aren't gonna smoke us out that way lol,you won't get us to post pics of our bodies to prove ourselves . But ok you can think of me as the mystery fat chick that also has no boobs or hips. If that makes more sense to you than the possibility you being wrong, save your ego ok?

posted June 13, 2015 12:54 PM            

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Originally posted by CosmiqPhuz:
The Victoria's Secret models are skinny AND have big boobs and wide hips. What's your argument here?

Read my posts above, I'm sick of repeating myself. It wouldn't take days if you'd just read.

Is anyone else here amused/frustrated by bansheequeen's lack of reading comprehension?

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posted June 13, 2015 01:26 PM            

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Originally posted by bansheequeen:
Yeah but compared to the average woman you see walking down the street, they actually don't. The average woman is much much curvier, and not fat curvy either. They barely have breasts or hips compare to MOST woman so using your logic, the average woman is biologically superior, but I know you don't see it that way because you just think they're hot and you want to prove yourself right so you are using big hips and boobs as the reason they are attractive. So to spell it out for you you're contradicting yourself all over the place.

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posted June 13, 2015 02:11 PM            

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Originally posted by bansheequeen:
Yeah but compared to the average woman you see walking down the street, they actually don't. The average woman is much much curvier, and not fat curvy either. They barely have breasts or hips compare to MOST woman so using your logic, the average woman is biologically superior, but I know you don't see it that way because you just think they're hot and you want to prove yourself right so you are using big hips and boobs as the reason they are attractive. So to spell it out for you you're contradicting yourself all over the place.

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I think you're too hung up on the "big breasts, wide hips" example. It's not like we only check out those 2 criteria and pay no attention to anything else. There's other attributes to look at. It's the whole package.

I'm not denying that I like those Victoria's Secret women. And I'm not blaming it all on primal desires (notice the keyword "all"). They have beautiful faces, that's why they're models. A lot of them are exotic looking.

I'm not saying the biggest is the best. An average woman with double D's is not gonna wow me.

This is what you ladies are perceiving from what I said: "big boobs and wide hips is beauty and the only things that matter". That's not what I meant at all.

posted June 13, 2015 03:35 PM            

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Originally posted by bansheequeen:
First you say women here have iron vaginas, then you say we're so easy we'd sleep with a guy just for the novelty of his accent. I'm confused.

Southern accents have universal appeal? Not true.

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posted June 13, 2015 03:35 PM            

I just think we're predisposed to find attractive a certain type or have certain criteria, usually to complement our own bodies (not even getting on to the personality issue here).

Eg, I am attracted to men with broad shoulders. If a man has narrow shoulders I usually dismiss them as a prospective long-term mate. That might sound shallow but it is what it is. I'm quite broad-shouldered myself (for a gal) and I don't really want to date a wimpy looking guy because it would make me feel too masculine or dominant. Similarly I like men taller than me (I'm 175cm).

I'm sure men have similar attractances. The thing about being attracted to women with large hips to waist ratio (and possibly bust to waist) is obvious. Child-bearing hips, a relatively narrow waist which suggests she's not likely to suffer from heart disease or other illnesses later in life (ie, she's fit), and the breasts from the fact that that is what makes us women different from men. Lots of men like to play with them too, or maybe it goes down deeper subconsciously and it's the maternal thing that they are attracted to. I don't know. Some men prefer small breasts on women. Everyone is different. Some men love tall women, others prefer shorter ones because it makes them feel more masculine.