posted May 14, 2009 05:04 PM         

how could you identify with the semisquares and sesisquares?

posted May 14, 2009 05:31 PM         

but now that i red it,they seem to be felt.

on one it said we were instantanesouly bonded - yup it was.

the saturn/moon kikx is also true and there is the sun/saturn semisk which is a little...difficult but at the same time can glue the couple together.

i think that our report was majority positive and the less ones,said that needed a balance.

for all,an equilibrium then isnt it?

posted May 14, 2009 08:22 PM         

Do you think if the composite ASC conjuncts the IC (under 2) in an individuals chart, it may still qualify as twin flame potential...or close?

Thanks

posted May 14, 2009 09:59 PM         

I see a few distinct things, my Leo sun is conjunct his Asc. and is located in his 12th house, and his Leo Sun is located in my 8th house, is this good?

posted May 15, 2009 03:42 AM         

I was also surprised about the semisquares / sesisquares, some were really on target, especially the close ones.
Will get back to my own synastry later.

Kismet,

no, I don´t think that an aspect from composite to natal shows a Twinsoul.
It shows how you are affected by the relationship, but Twinsoul would be another person, not a relationship.
Compoosite ASC on IC would affect you deeply though. This relationship might hit you to the core.

Vesta,

what do you think it means?

Vertiver,

posted May 15, 2009 04:02 AM         

http://ryoin.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/synastry-aspects-for-soulmates-and-twinflames/

http://www.synastry.us/soulmate_indicators.asp
http://www.skygrooves.com/articles/soulmates.html
http://www.throughnightsfire.com/Misconceptionofsoulmate.html

posted May 15, 2009 08:57 AM         

it is not the rulers of the first and seventh in aspect.

However,

the ruler of his first is conjunct my DSC
and
I have the ruler of his DSC and IC, conjunct his ASC.

The rulers of the ASC are in aspect DW
( not ASC and DSC)

and Persephone is (2)conjunct Pluto
persephone is conjunct the NN (0)
(pluto is the ruler of my 7th and his is trine the ruler of my 1st venus (3).

I have the ruler of his 7th and 4th, Mercury conjunct his ASC. in his first aspecting the ruler of his first in my seventh.

and the ruler of his seventh is in my first.

also, not sure what it means but my ninth Harmonic sun is conjunct his natal sun (1).

and his ninth harm sun is conjunct my ninth harm sun (3)

I figured out the orb diffrence between his NN and my ASC is (0.03) very tight.

NN square NN (0)

posted May 15, 2009 11:05 AM         

That explains Johnny Depp so much.
My saturn is trine his neptune (0) opp his moon(0).

Karma sextile karma

Eros/Iris - Psyche Iris

My saturn is trine George ASC (0)and neptune (3) my venus opp his Neptune (0)

posted May 15, 2009 11:05 AM         

EDIT.... 2 post

posted May 15, 2009 11:55 AM         

"the ruler of his first is conjunct my DSC
and
I have the ruler of his DSC and IC, conjunct his ASC."
Very strong attraction, more from you to him, though.
He embodies (his ASC) what you are attracted to (Your DSC).

Any DW or complimentary aspect with the ASC is good.
It just struck me that in the synastry with R, my ASC ruler conjuncts his Psyche, while his ASC ruler opposes my Eros. lol

"and Persephone is (2)conjunct Pluto
persephone is conjunct the NN (0)"
Strengthens the Pluto-Persephone aspect even more.

"I have the ruler of his 7th and 4th, Mercury conjunct his ASC."
Well, I would rather look to your rulers of your houses aspecting his rulers of his houses.

"and the ruler of his seventh is in my first."
Means you embody what he finds attractive.

"also, not sure what it means but my ninth Harmonic sun is conjunct his natal sun (1).

and his ninth harm sun is conjunct my ninth harm sun (3)"
Your Suns are in 9th harmonic aspect, like the novile or binovile or trinovile (that is a trine actually). 40, 80, 120 degree from each other.

"I figured out the orb diffrence between his NN and my ASC is (0.03) very tight."
Yes, definitely very unique.

posted May 15, 2009 11:58 AM         

that Saturn-Neptune connection is odd. The trines seem to be more pleasant, not so painful.

In the synastry with Jude we have a wide Saturn-Neptune / NN-opposition (5 degree), an in the synastry with R there is an exact Saturn-Neptune-square, which also interlocks with that synastric Moon-Venus-conjunction opposing his Pluto.
It also docks at the composite Saturn and Chiron.

OUCH!

posted May 15, 2009 12:12 PM         

I remembered George and I have a Uranus/Chiron DW

That saturn/Neptune between me and Johnny hurt,
and it also trines our mercury/chiron conjunction.
I can only imagine what it would do to you.

one more question and I promise to stop bothering you.

concerning rulerships - can we use old rulers, co-rulers for those connections?

If so then George and I have 1st and 7th house rulers sign conjunct.

His jupiter (pisces-1st) sign conj my mars (scorpio-7th)

My venus (taurus-1st) sign conj his Mercury (virgo-7th)

then that NN trine ASC 0.03 orb would make sense as well as the pluto/persephone/node aspect.
His mars trines my NN (2)
ASC rulers DW
Eros/Venus DW
Venus/Pluto DW
Venus/Neptune DW - ASC rulers
Chiron/Uranus DW
NN square NN
names conjunct others nadir

you mentioned 1/2 degree orb for quincunx and sextile.
does that include the asteroid couples?

Eros quincunx psyche (0)
jupiter square juno (2)
Pluto conj persephone (2)

Does this sound like a yes? or NO?

posted May 16, 2009 12:35 AM         

That Mars-Pluto conjunction is tight (1 degree orb), but for example we have no Mars-Venus or Mars- Mars, so thats it.

The truth is that it was me who initiated things, but he immidietly said no and ran away You know, he has Venus conjunct Neptune, so i think a platonic relationship is quite convenient for him.

But as you said in an other thread, acceptance is the key when you need to let go sth... and now that i rediscovered my own needs, and this whole situation, i know that at this point in our lives its much better to be friends, cause thats the way we could help each other the most (especially that we are also colleagues).

posted May 16, 2009 07:04 AM         

But Vesta, you mentioned the 9th harmonic, you know that this is the "marriage chart" in Vedic astrology, right?
I also read in an article that it is your "soul-chart" and hence could point to your soulmate.

posted May 16, 2009 07:25 AM         

The Chart of the Soul Mate: the 9th Harmonic

by Cathy H. Burroughs

Fate means that my love for you shall be burnt into the deepest grain of my spirit by the most wonderful encaustic process of despair, hope, intoxicating joy, patience, absence, desperation, and some day – if God is good enough – this picture of a great love shall receive a transparent varnish of happy possession to bring out of its colours and keep them ever fresh. – Byron Caldwell Smith to Kate Stephens, April 2nd, 1875 (from Passionate Love Letters: An Anthology of Desire by Michelle Lovric)

I have long been fascinated by the concept of the Soul Mate, so it was with considerable exhilaration that I learned in an astrology workshop in the early 80's, that in fact, there was an astrological chart which did just this: served as both map and compass to this mysterious region. In this workshop, the brilliant, Florida-based astrologer Delphine Jay, author of Practical Harmonics, first unveiled this miraculous construct: the 9th Harmonic chart.

Covering the 5th, the 7th and the 9th harmonic charts in astrology, Jay revealed, in the course of an all day workshop in Baltimore, MD, these higher vibrational frequency charts. Like a series of photographic magnifications that build with heart-stopping crescendo, ultimately revealing what is at the heart of the matter, as in Antoinini's unforgettable cult film of the 60's, Blowup, these charts function in similar fashion: to reveal that which cannot always be seen.

While all three were absolutely fascinating, the 9th, the higher vibrational frequency of Pluto, was the one that totally mesmerized me. It shows in eloquent mathematical formulation that which completes us on the soul level, or according to Jay, our “destined unfoldment.”

In much the same way that Alice's fall down the rabbit hole gave her access to an allegorical and magical world which mirrored back to its readers the real world, this profound instrument, the 9th Harmonic, reflects our true non-self or destined path, “through parallel symbology*.”

It may come as a surprise, that these contacts between the natal or birth chart, and the 9th harmonic chart, can be found, not only between intimate partners, but also between family members, and even amongst our rosters of most meaningful connections; these may include our cherished dogs or cats, teachers, best friends, or even those whom you may have met only briefly or in passing. I even see relationships that never make it out of the etheric realm, into the realm of day-to-day reality.

Delphine Jay found that she often got more clarity about her husband when she looked at transits to her own 9th Harmonic Chart, than by looking at her husband's actual natal chart. She felt this harmonic demonstrated, in high relief, just how interrelated we actually all are.

Soul Mates/Twin Souls

Of course, the vast number of clients I see regarding their love life want to know about the Soul Mate, and there is an abundance of literature on the subject. Some say there is one true partner; others say we have many Soul Mates, and only one Twin Soul. Others, talk about Soul Families, Kindred Souls, Over Souls and Karmic partnerships.

One who has written in specificity on the subject is the Washington state-based counselor and minister, Robert Detzler, the creator of Spirit Release Therapy and author of Soul Re-Creation. He goes into great depth on the exact formation of the Soul Family.

From Detzler's spiritual research, contrary to popular belief, he has determined we can each have up to nine Twin Flames, and 72 Flame Mates in one's Soul Family. He further talks about Oversouls, Soul Mates, Soul Essences, Siamese Flames, and the addictive energy of Flames. He believes, even of the nine Flame Mates, there is only one true mate in the group. He also adds that even if you are with a Twin Flame, this is no guarantee of the idyllic emotional completeness we all dream. These couplings can, more often than not, provide deeply challenging evolutionary opportunities that carry the past shared and sometimes complicating experiences of many incarnations and dimensions together.

From my own experience and practice, there are a range of relationships that I see frequently. One is the Twin Flame which can be very challenging on the earth plane. It's almost as if this is a higher vibrational frequency relationship that has difficulty functioning in the density of the earth plane. I do also see Soul Mate or partial Soul Mate, even Soul Brother and Soul Sister relationships, where there is a soul connection, and both parties feel it. Sometimes I do see sublimely happy relationships that describe themselves as Soul Mates, but I can count those couples on one hand.

The other type relationship that comes up frequently is a Karmic relationship, which often shows strong Saturn aspects, in its synastry. In these partnerships, we find couples coming together to work through wounds or unresolved past life traumas. The psychologist and creator of Imago Relationship Therapy, Harville Hendrix, writes about the function of intimate relationships to heal childhood, and, I believe, past life, wounds. These relationships, may indeed, also be Soul Mate, Twin Soul or Soul Family partnerships, or Karmic, as well.

I have also seen a final category of relationship where they may not have soul connections or shared past lives, but come together out of a shared compatibility and shared mission. These can be very happy relationships, without the baggage of numerous shared lifetimes, fresh and clear, but not always feeling the depth, or complication of the other types.

How to Use the 9th Harmonic Chart

He who gets wisdom loves his own soul; he who cherishes understanding prospers. Proverbs 19.8

The Harmonic Charts were first written about by the British astrologer John Addey, and encompass fairly sophisticated theories of physics to explain their impact. His approach provides a conceptual basis for how aspects work, and how to look at a chart with the emphasis on one aspect for a deeper underlying meaning.

Delphine Jay's compelling comments on the 9th Harmonic indicate that the 9th is the 3 x 3 fold, representing the holy trinity. This formula brings chemistry which can lead to marriage, a heavy, meaningful partnership or brings the characteristics to test you.

According to Jay, this charts describes by parallel symbology your mate, or if unmarried, what turns you on to your destiny. Either marriage, or learning to live with the not self, serves as an earth test for completion.

The 9th Harmonic is the fruit of the tree: it is both the chart of the soul mate and the chart of the soul itself. Additionally, astrologer Addey, father of harmonics, said the 9th also represents some particular life work towards which you are heading, whether we know it or not.

In this chart, your 9th represents your mate and his or her's, represents you. Ironically, the 7th house of your 9th, also reveals how others see you. It is the “not self” of your own soul chart.

There is a detailed mathematical means for finding these harmonics by hand, but you can also create this chart fairly easily with existing software. It is important to choose an equal house system, as this chart is hypothetical or conceptual in nature. Because of this, it is vital to have the exact birth time, in order to have an accurate chart. Then choose harmonic, and the number nine. It is useful to work with both natal charts, as well as both 9th harmonic charts. You are looking for hits, or exact or nearly exact, conjunctions between the natal and 9th, and the 9th and 9th, of each person respectively.

You may also look for the traditional relationship aspects: sun/moon; mars/venus; 5th and 7th house planets; ascendant and nodal contacts, as well. You may also look at biwheel synastry, composites (the midway point of any two charts that becomes the chart of the relationship), transits, progressions and returns.

These charts are very profound, and actually give you a graphic depiction of your own deepest needs on the soul level. You may also look at the 9th harmonic as your soul itself, with the ascendent or rising sign being your actual umbilical connection or your first connection to life as we know it on this plane.

When you find one exact hit or conjunction, or a number of them, these depict the actual areas of soul connection. Other astrologers believe the 9th Harmonic demonstrates sexuality; while others believe it shows the capacity for joy and living life to the fullest or caring and warmth; still others believe this chart reveals the capacity to disengage in struggle or maintain a spiritually detached relationship to life. It is a general consensus, however, that this chart is particularly pertinent for understanding issues involving love and marriage.

Navamsha Chart or Marriage Chart

Western Astrology is not the only type of astrology that looks to the 9th Harmonic as the chart of the soul mate. In Vedic or Hindu astrology the 9th harmonic has been used for hundreds of years to match people up in holy matrimony in keeping with the Indian tradition of arranged marriage. Often, an astrologer would match up two individuals who both had difficult marriage aspects to try to ameliorate or lighten the karma of the two.

Conclusion

Jay presented the chart of John F. Kennedy as a means of understanding how to see both Jackie Onassis and JFK's destiny in this chart, which you may want to explore to practice the application of this interpretation.

The 9th Harmonic Chart is, after all, a paradox: how indeed can the soul, the soul's path, and the soul mate actually be authentically depicted by an astrological chart? This is a chart, similar to the natal chart, which takes a lifetime of study, of living, and of reflecting to reveal its many facets and dimensions. Do we ever truly know our own soul, our own soul's desire, or for that matter, our own soul mate? This chart pushes the study of astrology to the limit, and over the edge, to where astrology and mysticism co-mingle.

*quoted from Delphine Jay

To learn more about the 2nd Mystical Soul Journey in October 24-31 or Cathy Burrough's readings and classes, call 404.292.2000 or write cathyb108@aol.com.

Center for Inner Knowing
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posted May 16, 2009 12:14 PM         

don`t stop bothering me.
I love our exchange.

"ng rulerships - can we use old rulers, co-rulers for those connections?"
Yes, I think the old rulers still work.
I usually look at first at the new rulers, but keep an eye on the old ones, too.
Besides the old rulers are fast moving.

"you mentioned 1/2 degree orb for quincunx and sextile.
does that include the asteroid couples?
Yes.

For asteroid quinkunx and sextile I would only use 1 degrree and 30 seconds, now.
For asteroid conjunctions, oppositions, trins and squares 3 degrees (maybe 3°30 at most).

I have my own category system to filter out the intensity of the aspects, depending on orb and aspect.

I apply points:

For example:

conjunction: 5 points
opposition: 4 points
squrae: 3 points
trine: 2 points

(it is not about compatibility or even attraction, but about the strongest aspects)

and

0 - 1 degree: 5 points
1 - 2 degree: 4 points and so on

So, the Sun-Venus-conjunction of 1.3 degree in Judes and my synastry, would gain 5 points for the conjunction and 4 points for the exactness, makes 9 points (which I see as 90% intensity, so it`s very strong).

It makes it easier to see what is really in the foreground.

"Pluto conj persephone (2)"
Let`s say the orb is 1- 2 degree. Usually I would apply 4 points for this, but since I use only the half or orb for asteroid-aspects, it would be 2 points; conjunction is still 5 points, so the intensity of this aspect would be 7 points or 70% - definitely on the strong side.

Well, of course we could discuss using half the orb for asteroids, maybe they deserve the same orb. But I still feel that a Moon-ASC aspect may be stronger than the same aspect involving Amor and Angel for example. But I could be wrong. If asteroids have the SAME strengths, I would use the same orb for them, too.

Vertiver,

posted May 16, 2009 12:21 PM         

very wisely spoken.

Yes, I think Mars-Pluto would need confirmation through tight aspects to Sun, Moon, Venus, Mars, ASC or Eros to be really felt strongly. Pluto is generational after all.

Vesta,

the 9th harmonic is said to represent your soul, as your birth chart represents your body (or you could say the 9th is the spiritual dimentions, the natal is the materialisation, the physical manifestation on this earth).

So with Sun`s in conjunction in 9th harmonic, it could mean that your souls are in close connection with each other. It could be a sign that you share something of the same soulessence.

Funny though, Jude and me have a Sun-Moon-conjunction (of 5 degree wide though) in the 9th harmonic. His Sun, my Moon. lol
In Pisces nevertheless.

I was fascinated with the 9th harmonics a year back, but then I also found the Draconic chart, and decided to concentrate on this one.
Both relate to the soul. So where`s the difference?
I never got my mind around that.

However, maybe - just a though- the Draconics is more dynamic in terms that it relates to our purpose and path, including Karma and past lives (where have we been? where are we going to?)
and the 9th harmonic may relate more to the soul itself, this inner core, that stays the same and materialises in the physical realtity (our natal chart) in order to fulfill the lessons and take the path we are to take (Draconic chart)?

posted May 16, 2009 12:22 PM         

very wisely spoken.

Yes, I think Mars-Pluto would need confirmation through tight aspects to Sun, Moon, Venus, Mars, ASC or Eros to be really felt strongly. Pluto is generational after all.

Vesta,

the 9th harmonic is said to represent your soul, as your birth chart represents your body (or you could say the 9th is the spiritual dimentions, the natal is the materialisation, the physical manifestation on this earth).

So with Sun`s in conjunction in 9th harmonic, it could mean that your souls are in close connection with each other. It could be a sign that you share something of the same soulessence.

Funny though, Jude and me have a Sun-Moon-conjunction (of 5 degree wide though) in the 9th harmonic. His Sun, my Moon. lol
In Pisces nevertheless.

I was fascinated with the 9th harmonics a year back, but then I also found the Draconic chart, and decided to concentrate on this one.
Both relate to the soul. So where`s the difference?
I never got my mind around that.

However, maybe - just a though- the Draconics is more dynamic in terms that it relates to our purpose and path, including Karma and past lives (where have we been? where are we going to?)
and the 9th harmonic may relate more to the soul itself, this inner core, that stays the same and materialises in the physical realtity (our natal chart) in order to fulfill the lessons and take the path we are to take (Draconic chart)?

posted May 16, 2009 12:42 PM         

"Pluto conj persephone (2)"
Let`s say the orb is 1- 2 degree. Usually I would apply 4 points for this, but since I use only the half or orb for asteroid-aspects, it would be 2 points; conjunction is still 5 points, so the intensity of this aspect would be 7 points or 70% - definitely on the strong side.

posted May 16, 2009 12:52 PM         

I have decided that I wanted to focus on the Draconic chart as well, I bought the book about draconic charts, have yet to recieve it in the mail. I have Hamblin's book about harmonics and it has aspects in there for the charts. I know vedic uses the 9th but I honestly think we should look to the seventh as well as the ninth harmonic.