posted November 25, 2009 08:37 AM            

IQ, i think i can say i have it in almost every chart too but i will check. This is why i'm not sure the calculation works - or maybe it does and it's closer with more aspects?

posted November 25, 2009 08:37 AM            

IQ, i think i can say i have it in almost every chart too but i will check. This is why i'm not sure the calculation works - or maybe it does and it's closer with more aspects?

posted November 25, 2009 03:58 PM            

Sorry hon, i am juggling kids, working out the rest of the results and a possible swine flu outbreak in my household!

posted November 25, 2009 04:22 PM            

I hope it is false alarm - the possible swine flu outbreak I mean.

Sending you good vibes.

posted November 25, 2009 04:30 PM            

quote:

---

Let us use the following:
1. Tropical
2. Draconic
3. Secondary Chart
4. Chart Ruler Shifted Chart
5. Saturn, Venus, Pluto and Moon Shifts.

---

ok i'm lost.

Draconic is draconic to natal/both ways or draco/draco too?

Secondary chart? What's that please?
So we are only doing saturn/pluto/venus and moon shifts now? LOL I just worked out the whole damn lot HAHAHA
Also is this only SHIFT PLANET TO NATAL or SHIFT PLANET to SHIFT PLANET?!!

!!!!!!!!!

ok so here are mine :S
Don't scream at me if i got it all wrong... i'm struggling with brain fart syndrome from working it all out!!!
(i hate maths!!)

SUN
my SOL sun opp 

his n NN (2)
my SOL pluto opp 

his n sun (2)
his SOL NN opp 

my n pluto (2)
MY SOL PLUTO

 opp HIS SOL VENUS (2)

MOON
my MOON sun cj his n sun (3)
my MOON AC opp his n NN (3)
his MOON sun 

 opp my n moon (3)
his MOON sun opp my n venus (3)
his MOON NN 16' cj 

my MOON SUN (1)

MERCURY
My MERCURY Moon opp his n AC (2)
My MERCURY Venus opp his n AC (2)
His MERCURY AC opp my n moon (2)
His MERCURY AC opp my n venus (2)

VENUS
my VENUS sun

 opp his n AC (2)
my VENUS moon cj his n venus (2)
my VENUS venus

 cj his n venus (2)
my VENUS NN
 cj his n venus (0)
my VENUS saturn
 cj
 his n venus (0)
his VENUS saturn
 opp my n saturn
(0)
his VENUS saturn
 opp my n NN (0)
MY VENUS SUN OPP
 HIS VENUS AC (0)

MARS
His MARS sun 20’ pisces opp my n Pluto (0)

JUPITER
His JUPITER venus opposes my n venus (2)
His JUPITER venus opposes my n moon (2)

SATURN
my SATURN mars 3' cj his n NN (1)
his SATURN AC opposes my n SATURN shift
NN/MOON/VENUS/SATURN (1/2') 



URANUS
My URANUS NN cj his n Pluto (2)
My URANUS AC opp his n venus (1)

NEPTUNE
His NEPTUNE Sun opposes my n moon (0)
His NEPTUNE Sun opposes my n venus (0)
His NEPTUNE AC opp my NEPTUNE AC (1)

PLUTO
my PLUTO sun opp his n moon (2)

MY CHART RULER
My MERCURY Moon opp his n AC (2)
My MERCURY Venus opp his n AC (2)

HIS CHART RULER
His CHART RULER (pluto) Sun cj my n Pluto (0)
His CHART RULER Moon cj my n sun/moon midpoint (0)

ok there is a lot hitting midpoints/my osiris also. hmmm

posted November 25, 2009 04:57 PM            

I sent IQ a list of my aspects with Jude, Paul and Andy.

I did the tropical, Draco, secondary chart, Saturn, Venus, Moon and Pluto chart as suggested; I considered also Shift planets to shift planets, but kept religiously to the orb of 2 degree for conjunction and 1 degree for opposition, and only used the suggested asteroids.

Anyway, I think that maybe the conjunctions / oppositions to tropical Sun, Moon and ASC may be the most telling.
Also maybe what chart is most prominent.

For example, Jude and me have a Saturn and Pluto chart that is just insane. Maybe that points towards karmic issues between the two of us?
Of course it could also point at past life karma, not sure about the Saturnic chart yet.

"Secondary chart? What's that please? "
It is basically an arabic parts chart.

The calculation for Moon would be:
ASC + Moon - Sun

for Pluto it would be:
ASC + Pluto - Sun

"o we are only doing saturn/pluto/venus and moon shifts now?"
And chartrulers.

Like IQ I observed that the Mercury, Neptune and Uranian charts are not that telling. The Jupiter one gave great results in my case, but then Jupiter is my chartruler.

I think, meeting IQ`s requirements, these would be the most significant aspects:

my VENUS sun

opp his n AC (2)
- think 2 degrees would be okay, sine it is a conjunction with DESC

my VENUS moon cj his n venus (2)
my VENUS venus

cj his n venus (2)
my VENUS NN
cj his n venus (0)
my VENUS saturn
cj
his n venus (0)
his VENUS saturn
opp my n saturn
(0)
his VENUS saturn
opp my n NN (0)
MY VENUS SUN OPP
HIS VENUS AC (0)

- your Venus-chart is so unbelievably strong!
I really think that the Venus chart will be the one we will end up looking at for romantic relationships or love relationship between Twinflames.

My MERCURY Moon 15’ Taurus opp his n AC (2)
My MERCURY Venus 15’ Taurus opp his n AC (2)

His CHART RULER (pluto) Sun 21’ leo cj my n Pluto (0)

posted November 25, 2009 05:02 PM            

congratulations on your new family member.

posted November 25, 2009 05:03 PM            

Remember that my MERCURY chart is my chart ruler SO effectively, my SHIFT chart ruler moon/venus is opposing his AC (pluto) and his SHIFT chart ruler is cj my pluto (his chart ruler)!
Seems like some kind of inter-connected stuff going on there with our favourite planet PLUTO

OK so the secondary chart is also worked out by hand? AARRGGHH!!!! hahaha

So no draco for now? I have a free hour if you want me to work them out?

posted November 25, 2009 05:11 PM            

1.

MOON
my x Pluto opposite his x Karma
my x Karma conjunct his Moon
his x Saturn conjunct my Moon
his x Pluto conjunct my DESC

VENUS
my x Sun conjunct his x Juno
my x Moon conjunct his DESC
my x SN conjunct his Pluto
my x Valentine conjunct his Eros

2.

MOON

my x ASC conjunct his x Pluto
my x Venus conjunct his x Eros
my x Sun conjunct his Karma
my x Venus conjunct his Moon
his x Sun opposite my Valentine
his x Venus conjunct my Karma
his x Valentien opposite my Venus

VENUS
my X ASC conjunct his x Eros
my x NN conjunct his x Eros

3.

MOON
my x Karma opposite his Moon
his x NN conjunct my Saturn
his x Valentine conjunct my Karma

posted November 25, 2009 05:15 PM            

valentine/karma/eros/psyche? Damn,.. i think i missed a whole lot of posts on here

posted November 25, 2009 05:36 PM            

I just did the asteroids for the shift VENUS chart... lol

my VENUS juno cj his n AC (2)
my VENUS karma cj his n AC (1)
my VENUS valentine opp his n NN (3)
his VENUS eros cj my n moon (0)
his VENUS eros cj my n venus (0)
his VENUS karma opp my n eros (1)
his VENUS valentine cj my n kaali (0) and opp my n groom (1)

oh i forgot to do it the other way so i'm editing -

posted November 25, 2009 05:44 PM            

With Jude:
in the Pluto chart (his x Juno on my x DESC)

With Paul:
in the Saturn chart ( my x ASC conjunct his Juno)

With Andy:
in the chartruler chart (his x Karma conjunct my x ASC=

posted November 25, 2009 05:55 PM            

I also found these in the shift VENUS:

posted November 25, 2009 08:02 PM            

I think you missed my questions. Why must you make me think for myself?

I will give it a go.

Two questions.
1. How would you interpret this for a couple: Saturn Shift Asc's are conjunct.

I'd say this means both are living a similar karmic path, similar baggage and lessons to learn. Since conjunct, transits will be affecting them at the same time. This means they'll be encountering karmic lessons at the same time.

2. How are these shift charts different from persona charts?

Persona charts, being based on the tropical, offer a minute description of our personality. The shift charts refer to the "personality" that remains from our cumulative incarnations. It's our evolution in those specific areas (Saturn, Venus, etc.) - where we've come from and where we're going. In the present, we'll feel our personality as our tropical and its personas. We'll feel our place and mission as our shift/draconic charts. Contact with those charts will feel important to us. We'll be captivated, even if not consciously aware of the reason for feeling so deeply touched.

There, I tried. Your turn, please!

posted November 25, 2009 10:48 PM            

is this right?
(i only did draco (shift) VENUS for now as seems to be most interesting shift for me....

SECONDARY CHARTS - NATAL/SHIFTS

His secondary chart AC cj my n moon (1)
His secondary chart AC cj my n venus (1)
His secondary chart VENUS opp my (shift) SATURN valentine (1)
His secondary chart NN cj my n briede (1)
His secondary chart MOON cj my n valentine (1)
His secondary chart EROS cj my n boda (1)
His secondary chart EROS cj my (shift) VENUS Pluto (1)
His secondary chart VENUS cj my n eros (1)
His secondary chart VENUS opp my (shift) SATURN valentine (1)
His secondary chart JUNO cj my n juno (3)
His secondary chart JUNO opp my (shift) VENUS moon (1)
His secondary chart JUNO opp my (shift) VENUS venus (1)
His secondary chart JUNO cj my (shift) PLUTO AC (0)
His secondary chart SUN cj my (shift) VENUS juno (2)
His secondary chart SUN opp my (shift) VENUS sun (1)
His secondary chart PLUTO opp my (shift) MOON Saturn (1)
His secondary chart PLUTO opp my (shift) MOON NN (1)
His secondary chart PLUTO cj my (shift) SOLAR juno (2)

his secondary chart KARMA cj my draco n boda (1)
his secondary chart EROS opp my draco n Saturn (1)
his secondary chart VENUS opp my draco n moon (1)
his secondary chart VENUS opp my draco n venus (1)
his secondary chart PLUTO/CHART RULER cj my draco n IC (1)

my secondary chart SUN cj his (shift) VENUS sun (2)
my secondary chart SUN opp his (shift) SOLAR saturn (1)
my secondary chart VENUS cj his (shift) VENUS sun (2)
my secondary chart VENUS cj his (shift) SOLAR saturn (1)
my secondary chart AC cj his (shift) SATURN venus (0)
my secondary chart VALENTINE cj his (shift) MOON venus (2)

my secondary chart SATURN cj his draco n karma (2)
my secondary chart NN cj his draco n karma (2)
my secondary chart CHART RULER cj his draco n venus (0)
my secondary chart AC cj his draco n sun (1)
my secondary chart JUNO opp his draco n VENUS (1)
my secondary chart KARMA opp his draco n VENUS (0)

posted November 25, 2009 11:29 PM            

his draco VENUS (shift) SUN cj my MOON (shift) sun (1)
his draco VENUS (shift) SUN cj my SOLAR (shift) moon (1)
his draco VENUS (shift) SUN opp my SOLAR (shift) pluto (0)
his draco VENUS (shift) VENUS cj my SATURN (shift) PLUTO (2)
his draco VENUS (shift) VENUS cj my MERCURY/chart ruler (shift) sun (1)
his draco VENUS (shift) SATURN opp my VENUS (shift) NN (1)
his draco VENUS (shift) SATURN opp my VENUS (shift) SATURN (1)
his draco VENUS (shift) SATURN opp my n sun/moon mp (0)
his draco VENUS (shift) VALENTINE cj my n eros (0) awwwww
his draco VENUS (shift) cj my sun/moon mp (2)
his draco VENUS (shift) SUN cj my draco n briede (1) ☺
his draco VENUS (shift) VENUS cj my draco n AC (2)
his draco VENUS (shift) VALENTINE opp my draco n moon (2)
his draco VENUS (shift) VALENTINE opp my draco n venus (2)
his draco VENUS (shift) VALENTINE opp my draco n venus/mars mp (2)
his draco VENUS (shift) KARMA cj my draco n sun/moon mp (0)
his draco VENUS (shift) JUNO cj my draco n AC (2)
his draco VENUS (shift) JUNO opp my SATURN (shift) NN (1)
his draco VENUS (shift) JUNO opp my SATURN (shift) PLUTO (1)
his draco VENUS (shift) JUNO opp my MOON (shift) VENUS (1)

My draco VENUS (shift) SUN cj his n AC (2)
My draco VENUS (shift) SUN opp his VENUS (shift) AC (0)
My draco VENUS (shift) MOON cj his n venus (2)
My draco VENUS (shift) MOON cj his SATURN (shift) MOON (2)
My draco VENUS (shift) MOON cj his VENUS (shift) VENUS (0)
My draco VENUS (shift) MOON cj his SATURN (shift) MOON (2)
My draco VENUS (shift) MOON cj his VENUS (shift) VENUS (0)
My draco VENUS (shift) SATURN opp his draco n valentine (0)
My draco VENUS (shift) SATURN cj his n venus (1)
My draco VENUS (shift) SATURN cj his SATURN (shift) MOON (1)
My draco VENUS (shift) NN cj his n venus (0)
My draco VENUS (shift) NN opp his draco n valentine (1)
My draco VENUS (shift) PLUTO cj his MOON (shift) AC (0)
My draco VENUS (shift) PLUTO cj his SOLAR (shift) MOON (0)
My draco VENUS (shift) VALENTINE cj his SOLAR (shift) SUN (1)
My draco VENUS (shift) EROS opp his SATURN (shift) PLUTO (1)
My draco VENUS (shift) EROS opp his SATURN (shift) NN (1)
My draco VENUS (shift) EROS cj his PLUTO (shift) NN (0)
My draco VENUS (shift) EROS opp his draco n moon (0)
My draco VENUS (shift) KARMA opp his n sun/moon mp (0)
My draco VENUS (shift) KARMA opp his SATURN (shift) NN (1)
My draco VENUS (shift) KARMA opp his PLUTO (shift) NN (1)
My draco VENUS (shift) KARMA cj his draco n PLUTO (1)
My draco VENUS (shift) JUNO opp his n sun/moon mp (1)
My draco VENUS (shift) JUNO cj his SATURN (shift) PLUTO (2)
My draco VENUS (shift) JUNO opp his SATURN (shift) NN (0) !!!!!!
My draco VENUS (shift) JUNO opp his PLUTO (shift) NN (1)
My draco VENUS (shift) JUNO opp his draco moon (1)
My draco VENUS (shift) JUNO cj his draco n PLUTO (2)
My draco VENUS (shift) AC opp his SATURN (shift) SATURN (0)
My draco VENUS (shift) AC opp his MOON (shift) PLUTO (1)

ALL AC ASPECTS: (to make it easier for IQ)

my (shift) MOON AC opp his n NN 3'
My chart ruler Moon opp his n AC (2)
My chart ruler Venus opp his n AC (2)
my (shift) VENUS sun 

opp his n AC (2)
MY (shift) VENUS SUN OPP 
HIS (shift) VENUS AC (0)
his (shift) SATURN AC opposes my (shift) SATURN NN/MOON/VENUS/SATURN (1/2) 


His (shift) NEPTUNE AC opp my (shift) NEPTUNE AC (1)

His secondary chart AC cj my n moon (1)
His secondary chart AC cj my n venus (1)
His secondary chart JUNO cj my (shift) PLUTO AC (0)
my secondary chart AC cj his (shift) SATURN venus (0)
my secondary chart AC cj his draco n sun (1)

his draco VENUS (shift) VENUS cj my draco n AC (2)
his draco VENUS (shift) JUNO cj my draco n AC (2)
My draco VENUS (shift) SUN cj his n AC (2)
My draco VENUS (shift) SUN opp his VENUS (shift) AC (0)
My draco VENUS (shift) PLUTO cj his MOON (shift) AC (0)
My draco VENUS (shift) AC opp his SATURN (shift) SATURN (0)

My draco VENUS (shift) AC opp his MOON (shift) PLUTO (1)

is that what you wanted?

Out of interest,
his n moon cj composite groom
my n briede cj composite briede
my secondary chart venus cj composite mars
his secondary AC cj composite venus/DC
my secondary valentine/pluto cj composite pluto
my secondary juno/karma cj composite boda
his SOLAR *shift* AC opp my n briede (2)
his MOON *shift* SATURN cj my n groom (2)
his MOON *shift* PLUTO opp my n briede (1)
his VENUS *shift* VALENTINE cj my n briede (3)

I'm sorry IQ, i am off topic now but what do you make of these extraordinary briede/groom aspects please?!

his sun/moon and venus/mars midpoints cj his n briede (0) LOL!!!!
my 9th harmonic GROOM cj his n BRIEDE (2)
my 9th harmonic BRIEDE cj his n LARA (1)
my SATURN NODE Valentine cj his n BRIEDE (3)
my n BRIEDE is cj my dr valentine (0)

my draco GROOM is cj his n GROOM EXACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF?
my draco BRIEDE is cj his n SUN (1) LOL
his draco BRIEDE is opp my n GROOM (3)

my antiscon AC cj his n BRIEDE (1)
my pr BRIEDE cj my pr AC/valentine
his pr AC opp my pr briede () LOL so my briede is cj exact his pr DC
his pr JUNO cj my n BRIEDE (2)
his pr AC opp my n BRIEDE (0)
his pr VENUS cj my n AC (1)
his pr UNION cj my n valentine (1)

posted November 26, 2009 03:21 AM            

<<
2. How are these shift charts different from persona charts?
>>
Persona Chart according to me explains the nature of the relevant planet.
A Moon Persona describes the "story" of the moon in our chart. I think Persona Charts should be understood along with the Sabian Symbol of that planet's degree.

Shift Charts to me are like "Event Crystallizations". I am not using them to understand anything in the Natal Chart, I am thinking of them like a combination of keys to unlock a trigger event in synastry or transits. Why do certain things happen and we do not see Transit Sun or Mars or Mercury or Venus [the event causers] conjunct any Tropical planet? Why should we scratch our heads searching for a 3 degree orb sesqui-qaudrate to sheepishly explain a "fated" event when a full blooded 0 degree orb conjunction occurs in the Saturn Shift chart?

<<
I have one more question. From the ones I've checked, my SO's shift charts contact my tropical more than mine do his. Mine always have one or two strong contacts with his natal (e.g., Shift Chart ASC cnj n.Venus). His have many with my natal. I know there's no imbalance in love between us, so I'm wondering what to make of this? Perhaps after viewing all the shift charts, contact will even up. But if it doesn't...Maybe it means that the shift chart person is the one who is changed more (on an evolutionary level) through the relationship?
>>