posted November 26, 2009 03:30 AM            

<<
Thank you. Well i hope so too cos my 8 yr old has had a temp of 104 for 2 days with tummy ache, headache and flu like symptoms. No my eldest is feeling hot. I have had about 4 hrs sleep a night since Sunday.
>>
You must give him plenty of Vitamin C.
At least 3 grams a day.

posted November 26, 2009 04:57 AM            

For the numerology we have the same Heart number. My Lifepath number is his Birth number. And my first name is his last name. Thanks for your help!

posted November 26, 2009 05:04 AM            

Starr - yes! Thats beautiful. I love my birthforce being the same as his destiny/heart/personality in normal numerology.
Not sure why chaldean is better!

posted November 26, 2009 05:53 AM            

So I checked the Saturn Shift for basics.
Dana's Saturn Shift Sun conjuncts Superman's Saturn Shift Moon.

And Superman's Venus Shift Sun conjuncts Dana's Venus Shift Moon.

How amazing is that? These two may even be twinflames, they died within 2 years of each other and set so many evolutionary examples for humanity.

------------------
Soul Mate Love Calculator

posted November 26, 2009 06:52 AM            

You are right; I also think that the latter two of the Juno / ASC / Karma aspectgs are more karmic than anything else.

Anyway I was thinking; I think there probably will always or frequently be aspects in the Saturn Shifts chart in every synastry.
But if Saturn Shifts mean "karmic baggage" and Twinflames don`t have karma together, does that mean that people with Saturn Shift aspects can NOT be twinflames?

Well, the question is rhetorical, cause I don`t believe this to be the case.
But I was having two thoughts:

1. it depends on the overall picture; if the Saturn shift is the strongest by far, and there are no balancing Venus Shift aspects then maybe it DOES mean that these two people are "just" karma-mates.

2. maybe a strong SAturn Shift PLUS a strong Venus Shift chart could signify Twinflames in "preparation-mode"?
Twinflames who are not YET ready to reunite and have to finish some things first?

IQ,

what an amazing example (Dana and Christopher Reeves)!
Wasn`t it similiar with Johnny Cash and June Carter? I think they died shortly after each other, too.

BTW what does the secondary chart signify?
Is that some subconscious personality of ourselves? (If so, then my subconsciousness is heavily Scorpionic, which would even make sense as Scorpio is in my 12th house along with Mars. Coincidentally my secondary chart is very similiar to my sidereal one).

posted November 26, 2009 07:29 AM            

I was toying around today with my aspect list and then had the idea to note repeated DW`s or linked aspects in the different shift charts.
The results were interesting.
I think those may be the most prominent connection, as they "run through" more than just one chart?

Anyway my list looks like this:

PAUL:

my MOON conjunct his SN (tropical)
my x SN Conjunct his MOON (secondary)
my NN conjunct his x MOON (Pluto shift)

my x DESC conjunct his MOON (secondary)
my x ASC conjunct his MOON (Saturn shift)

my x SN conjunct his JUNO (secondary)
my x NN conjunct his JUNO (Saturn Shift)
my x JUNO conjunct his x SN (Pluto Shift)

my x VALENTINE opposite his KARMA (secondary)
his x VALENTINE opposite my KARMA (Pluto shift)

his x PLUTO conjunct my SUN (chartruler shift)
my x MOON conjunct his x PLUTO (Saturn Shift)

his x SUN opposite my VALENTINE (Moon Shift)
my x SUN opposite his x VALENTINE (Pluto Shift)
my x VALENTINE conjunct his MOON (Pluto Shift)

his x VALENTINE oposite my VENUS (Moon Shift)
his x VENUS conjunct my VALENTINE (Pluto Shift)

ANDY

my VENUS conjunct his EROS (tropical)
mx x EROS conjunct his VENUS (Pluto shift)
my EROS conjunct his x VENUS (Pluto shift)

my x PLUTO conjunct his PLUTO (secondary)
hix x PLUTO conjunct my PLUTO (chartruler shift)

my x PLUTO opposite his x VALENTINE (Venus Shift)
my x VALENTINE opposite his PLUTO (Venus Shift)

- there are not many, I know, but those that are there seem very intense, transformative, and "carthatic" to me

JUDE

my SATURN conjunct his SN (tropical)
his x SATURN conjunct my NN (Pluto shift)

my Dr JUNO opposite his SUN (Draco)
his Dr JUNO conjunct my MOON (Draco)
my x SUN conjunct his x JUNO (Venus Shift)

my Dr JUNO conjunct his VALENTINE (Draco)
his x JUNO conjunct my VALENTINE (Pluto Shift)

my x SUN opposite his x VALENTINE (secondary)
my x VALENTINE conjunct his x MOON (Saturn Shift)

my x VENUS conjunct his x SN (secondary)
his x VENUS conjunct my SN (Pluto Shift)

his x SUN conjunct my NN (secondary)
my x MOON conjunct his x NN (Saturn Shift)

my x SUN conjunct his DESC (Saturn Shift)
my x MOON conjunct his DESC (Venus Shift)

his x VALENTINE opposite my EROS (Saturn Shift)
my x VALENTINE conjunct his EROS (Venus Shift)

my Dr KARMA conjunct his PLUTO (Draco)
my x PLUTO opposite his x KARMA (Moon Shift)

my x KARMA conjunct his MOON (Moon Shift)
my x SUN conjunct his x KARMA (Pluto Shift)

his x SATURN conjunct my MOON (Moon Shift)
my x SUN conjunct his SATURN (Pluto Shift)
mx x SATURN conjunct his SUN (Pluto Shift)

(used orbs are 2 degree for conjunction and 1 degree for opposition)

Lara,

posted November 26, 2009 07:55 AM            

IQ I didn't do any shift to shift calculations cos you said they weren't valuable!!! Now you are saying they are? lol

ok back to the calculation table

posted November 26, 2009 08:31 AM            

I think IQ only used tropical Sun, Moon and ASC for his stats, to see if the Shift charts work as a "filter"-rule for soulmates or even Twinflame.

posted November 26, 2009 08:35 AM            

No saturn shift aspects!!!!

my (shift) VENUS juno cj his (shift) VENUS AC 0’
my (shift) VENUS karma cj his (shift) VENUS AC 0’
my (shift) VENUS moon cj his (shift) VENUS moon 0’
my (shift) VENUS venus cj his (shift) VENUS moon 0’
my (shift) VENUS Saturn cj his (shift) VENUS venus 2’
my (shift) VENUS sun opp his (shift) VENUS AC 0’
my (shift) VENUS NN cj his (shift) VENUS venus 2’

my (shift) MOON sun opp his (shift) MOON NN (1)
my (shift) MOON valentine opp his (shift) MOON Saturn (1)
my (shift) SOLAR sun cj his (shift) SOLAR sun (0)
my (shift) SOLAR moon cj his (Shift) SOLAR juno (0)
my (shift) SOLAR venus cj his (Shift) SOLAR juno (0)
my (shift) SOLAR pluto opp his (Shift) SOLAR venus (2)

my (shift) PLUTO venus cj his (Shift) PLUTO sun (2)
my (shift) PLUTO AC cj his (shift) PLUTO saturn (2)

What do you think of these two"

my (shift) VENUS moon cj his (shift) VENUS moon 0’
my (shift) SOLAR sun cj his (shift) SOLAR sun (0)

posted November 26, 2009 09:10 AM            

I LOVE them.

Particularly because there is this beautiful balance between feminine and masculine planets.

posted November 26, 2009 09:18 AM            

So what aspects would we expect?

° strong aspects in the Venus and Pluto shifted charts; considereably less in Saturn shift chart

° Valentine - Pluto

° Valentine - True Node, Sun, Moon, or ASC

° Juno - True Node, Sun, Moon, ASC

° a Sun-Moon (linked) aspect

° and probably an Eros-Valentine, Eros-Juno or Eros-Venus aspect (the sexual attraction is very strong)

posted November 26, 2009 10:17 AM            

° strong aspects in the Venus and Pluto shifted charts; considereably less in Saturn shift chart

Turns out I was wrong in this point; the Saturn Shift chart is pretty strong, and there are also aspects to Saturn and Karma in the other charts.
Yet, the PLUTO chart is considerably stronger, the DRACO chart is also very strong, but the strongest chart may be the SECONDARY chart (just from the amount of aspects).

° Valentine - Pluto

his TROPICAL Valentine conjunct her TROPICAL Pluto precisely on 11 Virgo

"After The Wedding, The Groom Snatches The Veil Away From His Bride" (!)

° Valentine - True Node, Sun, Moon, or ASC

his DRACO Valentine exact conjunct her Sun
his SAT Desc conjunct her SAT Valentine
his SEC Valentine opposite her Moon
his RULER Valentine exact conjunct her RULER NN

° Juno - True Node, Sun, Moon, ASC
his Moon exact opposite her Juno
his DR Juno conjunct her SN (so much for: no past lives )
her SAT Juno conjunct his Sun
his RULER Sun conjunct her RULER Juno

° a Sun-Moon (linked) aspect
his VEN Moon conjunct her VEN Pluto
his VEN Pluto conjunct her VEN Sun

his SEC Sun conjunct her SEC Moon

° and probably an Eros-Valentine, Eros-Juno or Eros-Venus aspect

his DR Valentine opposite her DR Eros
his SEC ERos conjunct her Valentine

posted November 26, 2009 02:27 PM            

Interestingly their Venus Shift chart is also not all that strong. It only has these aspects:

his VENUS Pluto conjunct her VENUS Eros
his VENUS Moon conjunct her SN
her VENUS Eros opposite his Karma

Instead their Draco and Saturn Shift chart is very prominent (I haven`t checked their Pluto Shift chart though).
There are some interesting aspects:

his DRACO Moon opposes her DRACO Sun exactly (so another couple with Sun-Moon aspect, IQ)

his DRACO Moon conjunct her Juno
her DRACO Juno conjunct his DESC
his DRACO Juno conjunct her Pluto
her DRACO Saturn conjunct his Moon

his SATURN Sun conjunct her SATURN Valentine
his SATURN VAlentine conjunct her SATURN Karma
his SATURN VAlentine conjunct her Karma
her SATURN VAlentine conjunct his Karma

As a matter of fact this Valentine-Karma-conjunction also appears in their tropical charts

Lara,

I liked these aspects of yours best:

my (shift) VENUS juno cj his (shift) VENUS AC 0’
my (shift) VENUS karma cj his (shift) VENUS AC 0’
my (shift) VENUS moon cj his (shift) VENUS moon 0’
my (shift) VENUS sun opp his (shift) VENUS AC 0’

y (shift) SOLAR sun cj his (shift) SOLAR sun (0)
my (shift) SOLAR moon cj his (Shift) SOLAR juno (0)
my (shift) SOLAR pluto opp his (Shift) SOLAR venus (2)

posted November 26, 2009 03:39 PM            

I am still having a problem getting my mind to accept Saturn links as a twin flame aspect simply because Saturn stands for everything a twin flame relationship ISN'T!

My love wrote me the sweetest letter today and it was all moon/Venus/Pluto in tone and there was nothing Saturnian - binding, lessonlike nor karmic about it.

When I look back at my exes the worst and most painful relationships were all full of Saturn cjs and opp!!! Or no Saturn at all and they flopped.

This one is just like a cup of hot chocolate in front of a log fire on fur rug... the lessons are issues within myself and not with him. He banishes my darkness and replaces it with light. All my other relationships didn't make me feel like a shining star on a dark night at all.

That article I trust and it says that twins have no karma. I feel that. I have learnt about me and now I'm learning to grow with 'us'. We are one and as one we have nothing repelling us. I even love his faults and I'm such a perfectionist, so I don't know.

I still feel that Saturn is binding karma not binding love lol

posted November 26, 2009 03:55 PM            

and my draco PETER is cj my dr NN and his draco (my surname) is cj his dr SN lol

posted November 26, 2009 04:23 PM            

"My love wrote me the sweetest letter today and it was all moon/Venus/Pluto in tone and there was nothing Saturnian - binding, lessonlike nor karmic about it."
Sweet.

And I don`t know, but is SAturn ALWAYS unpleasant lesson? Ah I don`t know. Better ask IQ. He is the SAturn-expert. I find SAturn pretty mystifying to be honest.

"When I look back at my exes the worst and most painful relationships were all full of Saturn cjs and opp!!! Or no Saturn at all and they flopped."
So Saturn is needed to make a relationship work and last?
But too much of Saturn is a downer.

Ah as I said, I dςn`t know. In my own synastry I prefer a bit of Saturn, but not too much.
Or actually I prefer some strong Saturn aspects and many many strong loving aspects.

Saturn without love is restriction and really, purely, lesson-like, and nothing I want in my life.

"That article I trust and it says that twins have no karma."
Let me modify this for me. Twins have no karma in the life when their union takes place.

They could have Karma in lives, when they were not ready for each other.
Let me exemply this:
Imagine, two twins meet, and one of them is not really ready for the totality of their union and this one starts running away; something that seems to be not such a rar occurance according to almost every article I ever have read on Twinflames.

Anyway if one of them is not ready and will not enter the union with his Twin, his Twin would probably be very sad about this. If the twin her- or himself is truely ready, he or she would probably accept that the other one needs some more time, but nevertheless it would be a painful experience.
And this experience of pain alone would be some sort of Karma that has to be solved (probably forgiveness meditations would work very well in this instance).

But as I said, I also believe that no Karma (in the sense of "lessons") is between Twinselves, as the word "lesson" implies the inequality of a teacher and disciple-relationship, and for me the very basis of Twinflame relationships is equality.

"I still feel that Saturn is binding karma not binding love lol"
Yes, one part of me feels the same.
And the other part feels like Saturn can also be the "lifeline".

Just think of Johnny Cash and June Carter, who in my opinion were soulmates at the very least. I wouldn`t dare to speculate about Twinflames-status though.

Their Saturn-aspects make very much sense to me, as Johnny seemed to need the stabilizing, structuring influence of June in his life.
I guess their Valentine aspects were just as necessary, as they showed that the reason really was love and nothing else.
I would say Saturn on its own is pretty neutral, it depends on which planets he is aspecting.

BUT I also see that Saturn can sometimes be scary and so demanding that it makes us reject and repell Saturn`s qualities.

So I really don`t know about this planet.

posted November 26, 2009 04:40 PM            

"and my draco PETER is cj my dr NN and his draco (my surname) is cj his dr SN lol"
Doesn`t that mean that PETER is conjunct your NN in tropical, too? And your surname in his chart is conjunct his tropical SN, too?

I guess it means that someone with the name Peter would be very significant for your lifepath. I wonder which Peter this might be? Peter Fonda? Peter Jackson? Peter Riley?

Funny though, Andy and me have something similiar.
His name in his chart (and in my chart, they are exact conjunct) is conjunct my NN, while my name in my chart is conjunct his NN (and my name in his chart is quinkunx his NN).

Another thing that made me go. WTF? is the fact that Andy`s and my name are EXACT conjunct in Paul`s chart and also exact conjunct Paul`s Chiron and opposing his Pluto (and I believe this is his ASC-DESC axis as well).

oh and my name in my chart is exactly opposite Paul`s name in his chart; it is exact to some seconds! And this opposition falls along ΐndy`s nodal axis (with my name on his NN and Paul`sn ame on his SN) and it squares Paul`s nodal axis, who actually has Jude`s name on his SN. lol

BTW I once lexied Jude`s and my name together, and if you put our name together, you get "eternal Twinselves". Only if put together, though, none of us has these words in their own names. ROFL

posted November 26, 2009 06:55 PM            

quote:

---

Doesn`t that mean that PETER is conjunct your NN in tropical, too? And your surname in his chart is conjunct his tropical SN, too?

---

YES!!!!

my NN 18' aries
my saturn 18' aries
my PETER 20' aries
my moon 21' aries
my venus 21' aries

his (my) surname 3' leo
his NN 4' aquarius

No idea what it means...

OK, i will have to reply to your bit in a while as i'm a bit drunk but here are my saturn shift as i finished working them out before my girl friend turned up for dinner!

my SATURN (shift) saturn/NN cj his SATURN (shift) saturn 0'
my SATURN (shift) moon/venus cj his SATURN (shift) saturn (3)
my SATURN (shift) moon/venus cj his SATURN (shift) eros (0)
my SATURN (shift) eros opp his SATURN (shift) karma (2)

posted November 26, 2009 11:40 PM            

I'd really love to find out how to do my own Saturn shift chart.

I've done my Draco chart on Astro.com (which I found to be spot on!) When I started reading about the Saturn shift chart (Saturn being my traditional natal chart ruler) my ears perked up and I knew I needed to do one!

If someone could tell me if I'm doing this correctly, I would be sooo very grateful!

If I understand, I need to shift Saturn to 270 degrees to make it 0? (I'm wondering if this is due to Capricorn's natural degree in a blank natal chart being at 270 degrees? If not then what does 270 stand for?

My natal Saturn is 10 degree Leo. If I subtract that from 270-10=260? At this point I move all my planets forward 260 degrees OR to make it easier, could I just minus 260 from 360 (and go backwards? (360 being the total number off degrees in any chart?) so Instead 360-260=100? which roughly would be a square plus 10 degrees?

As an example:

Natal Sun 29 Aries S.S = Sun 19 Capricorn?

posted November 27, 2009 01:49 AM            

So the calculation is 270 - 130 = 140.

posted November 27, 2009 04:37 AM            

"my NN 18' aries
my saturn 18' aries
my PETER 20' aries
my moon 21' aries
my venus 21' aries"
I think it means that the energetic frequence of PETER triggers all these planets, which are part of your lifepath, especially your feminine side, caring and attraction.

If YOUR Peter has strong aspects to this, preferably conjunctions or even oppositions of Sun, Moon, ASC, True Node, Mars or his own name, then he is most likely the one you identify with the energy of PETER.

Just an example:
In Jude`s chart my name is on 29 Sagittarius, which is conjunct my Sun. I would interprete it like I exhibit many traits (my Sun in Sag), that he identifies with the name DD.

"my SATURN (shift) saturn/NN cj his SATURN (shift) saturn 0'
my SATURN (shift) moon/venus cj his SATURN (shift) saturn (3)
my SATURN (shift) moon/venus cj his SATURN (shift) eros (0)
my SATURN (shift) eros opp his SATURN (shift) karma (2)"

so you also have Saturn shift aspects with your Twin. I think that shows that the presence of aspects in the Saturn shift chart doesn`t mean that two people canNOT be Twinflames.

But, big BUT, if you look at your aspects, they are neither many nor are they extraordinary.
BTW I probably wouldn`t consider the aspects to the Saturn shift Saturn, as this one is always on 00 Capricorn, in everyone`s chart.
So mainly you have two aspects with EROS in the Saturn shift chart.

Also there seem to be no aspects of the Saturn Shift charts to the tropical planets, which I find interesting.
you mentioned that you would consider the Shift- tropical aspects more significant than those being created between Shift-Shift planets, and so far I would agree.
I think the same about Draco planets (even though Draco-Draco could be pretty pure past life indicators).
The tropical chart is the one that "materializes" on earth, the one that "grounds" us in this physical area, some sort of anchor.

I definitely think that we should keep especially an eye on the Shift planets to tropical planets (not only Sun and Moon though).

In your case I think it is very clear to see that your Saturn Shift chart is much weaker than your Venus Shift chart, and that seems to fall into line with your obervations / feelings.

So, even though I still think Shift-Shift can be considered, probably they would need an "anchor" in the physical, which would be the tropical.
Just thinking...

posted November 27, 2009 04:44 AM            

Hi Lara,
<<
my SATURN (shift) saturn/NN cj his SATURN (shift) saturn 0'
my SATURN (shift) moon/venus cj his SATURN (shift) saturn (3)
my SATURN (shift) moon/venus cj his SATURN (shift) eros (0)
my SATURN (shift) eros opp his SATURN (shift) karma (2)
>>
Well, this just reconfirms my belief that this chart adds value to Twin Flame studies

Hi Astrobelle,
Just as DD mentioned, shift all planets ahead 140 degrees to create a Saturn Shift Chart.
Your Saturn Shift Chart will help you predict important dates as your chart ruler is also Saturn.

------------------
Soul Mate Love Calculator

posted November 27, 2009 05:00 AM            

"You should have been a scientist"
Maybe I was.

posted November 27, 2009 05:44 AM            

quote:

---

Well, this just reconfirms my belief that this chart adds value to Twin Flame studies

---

It does? Can i ask why? What is it that makes you say that, because these aspects (apart from NN/saturn) are not so strong!

DD - does my NN not count because it is conjunct my n saturn?