posted November 27, 2009 03:23 PM            

Yes, because the tropical aspects are so 'tight' and conj/opposing - maybe then when you "shift" them they move further apart? Just a thought.....

posted November 28, 2009 07:26 AM            

For example, my parents have been married for 35 years now, and my Mum`s SAturn is conjunct his Mars. My Dad`s Saturn is conjunct my Mum`s Venus and Mars.
I think it gave them the strength to stay together.

With my best friend (whom I have known for almost 20 years now) I share some red flag Saturn aspects.
My Saturn exactly squares her Moon, which is her chartruler. Her Saturn widely opposes my Moon (but it is nearly 5 degrees, so I wouldn´t probably count it).
My Saturn also sextiles her Sun exact.

Event hough it was not easy at all times, I think these aspects provided the glue to stick it out together.
But I must admit, that even though there are one or two strong Saturn aspects, those are not too frequent and furthermore not overbearing to other gentler aspects.

I think it is all about balance. A bit of Saturn is needed to keep together, but too much of Saturn becomes stifling and overbearing.

posted November 28, 2009 10:08 AM            

TROPICAL
his Moon opposite her Sun (2)
his ASC conjunct her Venus (0) on 18 Virgo
his Saturn conjunct her Venus (0) on 18 Virgo
his SN conjunct her Saturn (0)
his Juno opposite her Eros (1)

it seems that Venus and Saturn are the strongest planets in their synastry (involved in the tightest conj / opp).

The Sabian for his ASC / Saturn on her Venus is:
A Swimming Race

I can`t really relate to this Sabian though.

SATURN SHIFT

his SAT Pluto conjunct her SAT SN on 29 Scorpio

his SAT Valentine opposite her Sun (1)
her SAT Sun conjunct his Valentine (2)
her SAT ASC conjunct his Juno (0) on 4 Libra
her SAT Juno conjunct his NN (2)

Sabian of 29 Scorpio
Children In Halloween Costumes Indulge In Various Pranks

- I know that most people see Halloween as a partytime (for children), but to me this day has very occult meaning.

Sabian of 4 Libra
A Man Revealing To His Students The Foundation Of An Inner Knowledge Upon Which A "New World" Could Be Built

This is also the Sabian of my tropical MC!

VENUS CHART

his VEN Sun conjunct her VEN SN (1)
his VEN Juno opposite her VEN Karma (0)
his VEN ERos conjunct her VEN Juno (0) on 10 Gemini

his VEN Pluto conjunct her Sun (0) on 3 Scorpio
his VEN Valentine opposite her Saturn (1)
his VEN ERos conjunct her Valentine (1)

her VEN Pluto opposite his Juno (1)
her VEN Valentine conjunct his Valentine (1)
her VEN Eros opposite his Karma (0)

Sabian of 10 Gemini
Newly Opened Lands Offer The Pioneer New Opportunities For Experience
(That is also the degree of my own SN)

Sabian of 3 Scorpio
A Youth Carries A Lighted Candle In A Devotional Ritual
- Wow! This one feels strong to me.

posted November 28, 2009 11:03 AM            

TROPICAL
his ASC conjunct her ASC
his Pluto conjunct her DESC on 12 Cancer
his SNc onjunct her Eros
his Venus conjunct her ASC
his Valentine conjunct her Sun

SATURn
his SAT ASC conjunct her SAT Sun
his SAT ASC conjunct her SAT Valentine
his SAT Pluto opposite her SAT Sun
his SAT Venus conjunct her SAT Sun
his SAT Venus conjunct her SAT Valentine on 1 Pisces
his SAt Valentine conjunct her SAt NN

his SAT Sun conjunct her Moon!
her SAT NN conjunct his Karma
her SAT Karma conjunct his NN
her SAt Valentine conjunct his MOon on 1 Pisces
her SAt Eros conjunct his Sun

VENUS

his VEN Saturn conjunct her VEN Sun on 29 Aquarius
his VEN Valentine conjunct her VEN NN

her VEN Sun conjunct his Karma
her VEN ASC conjunct his Moon

Their relevant Sabians are:

His VEN Saturn on her VEN Sun
29 Aquarius
Deeply Rooted In The Past Of A Very Ancient Culture, A Spiritual Brotherhood In Which Many Individual Minds Are Merged Into The Glowing Light Of A Unanimous Consciousness Is Revealed To One Who Has Emerged Successfully From His Metamorphosis

his SAT Venus and Moon conjunct her SAT Valentine
1 Pisces
A Squirrel Hiding From Hunters

his Pluto on her DESC
12 Cancer
A Hand With A Prominent Thumb Is Held Out For Study

Interestingly their Saturn Shift chart is much stronger than their Venus Shift chart, and they don`t share exact tight Saturn-conjunctions / oppositions tropically. Maybe their strong Saturn Shift chart balances out a lack of tropical Saturn aspects?

posted November 28, 2009 11:22 AM            

my venus NN cj his n venus
28-29 deg Aries
The Music Of The Spheres
I love this one.

his VENUS saturn opp my n NN
18-19 deg Aries
The "Magic Carpet" Of Oriental Imagery

my VENUS sun cj his VENUS AC
15-16 deg Taurus
An Old Teacher Fails To Interest His Pupils In Traditional Knowledge

Composite VENUS
24-25 deg Aries

The Possibility For Man To Gain Experience At Two Levels Of Being

Composite NN
11-12 deg Pisces


In The Sanctuary Of An Occult Brotherhood, Newly Initiated Members Are Being Examined And Their Character Tested
urgh!!!!! lol

posted November 28, 2009 01:30 PM            

Lara,

sorry to hear that another one is down with the flu. Well, but after that you`ll probably be on the safe side.

I`m not feeling too well myself as a matter of fact.

"my venus NN cj his n venus
28-29 deg Aries
The Music Of The Spheres
I love this one."
Yes, me, too. My Draco Isis is there.

And it is funny, years ago I rectified Andy`s ASC and came up with 28 Aries, and then just recently I noticed the Sabian, it fits him superbly. Probably a sign that I rectified it well. His MC degree is on 12 Capricorn then, and this fits him perfect, too.

And it is a beautiful Sabian to have in relation to the Venus chart. At least I think so.

"his VENUS saturn opp my n NN
18-19 deg Aries
The "Magic Carpet" Of Oriental Imagery"
Love that one, too.
Maybe refers to a past life in the orient?

"my VENUS sun cj his VENUS AC
15-16 deg Taurus
An Old Teacher Fails To Interest His Pupils In Traditional Knowledge"
At first I didn`t like that Sabian. But maybe it is just that the pupils aren`t interested in traditional knowledge, because they know they should go beyond tradition?

"Composite VENUS
24-25 deg Aries

The Possibility For Man To Gain Experience At Two Levels Of Being"
Yes, I love that, too. These two levels of being, do you think it refers to the physical and spiritual sphere?

"Composite NN
11-12 deg Pisces


In The Sanctuary Of An Occult Brotherhood, Newly Initiated Members Are Being Examined And Their Character Tested"
It`s the Sabian of my Jupiter, my chartruler!
And I think it is a very strong one for a NN.

posted November 28, 2009 02:56 PM            

with Jude:

tropical:
his Briede conjunct my Groom
his Groom conjunct my Briede
his Lancelot opposite my Guinevere

Saturn chart:
his SAT Adonis opposite my SAT Inannen

his SAT Persephone conjunct my Pluto on 9 Libra
my SAT Pluto conjunct his Proserpina

Sabian is:
Having Passed Through Narrow Rapids, A Canoe Reaches Calm Waters

VENUS chart:
his VEN Zeus conjunct my VEN Hera
his VEN AStarte opposite my Adonis

with Paul:

tropical:
his Persephone exact opposite my Pluto
his Isolda conjunct my Tristan

Saturn chart:
his SAT Eros conjunct my Psyche
his SAT Psyche conjunct my Eros !!!
his SAT Lancelot conjunct my SAT Guinevere
his SAT Hera conjunct my Zeus
my SAT Hera conjunct his Zeus
his SAT Hera conjunct my Jupiter on 11 PIsces

(2 double whammies?)

Venus chart:
his VEN Proserpina conjunct my VEN Pluto

his VEN Adonis conjunct my VEN Inannen on 6 Libra
(interestingly in Draco his Dr INannen is exactly on my Dr Adonis!)
his VEN Adonis conjunct my VEN AStarte
his VEN AStarte opposite my Adonis
(a third dw?)
his VEN Tristan conjunct my VEN Isolda on 27 Cancer

Sabian for 6 Libra
A Woman Feeding Chickens And Protecting Them From The Hawks

Sabian for 27 Cancer
An Indian Girl Introduces Her White Lover To Her Assembled Tribe
(I guess it didn`t go to well)

Sabian for 11 Pisces
In The Sanctuary Of An Occult Brotherhood, Newly Initiated Members Are Being Examined And Their Character Tested

with Andy:

tropical
his Zeus conjunct my Hera

Saturn chart:
his SAT Briede conjunct my Groom
his SAT Tristan conjunct my SAT Isolda

posted November 29, 2009 02:07 PM            

Yeah those sabians are pretty cool... I see that VENUS one as a possible Twin Flame sabian - with the "gain experience at two levels of being" words.
Actually, we have a few interesting ones in our composite. On top of that Venus and NN sabian we have:

ANTI VERTEX/AC
4-5 deg Aquarius

A Council Of Ancestors Is Seen Implementing Thee Efforts Of A Young Leader

DC/VERTEX
4-5 deg Virgo

A Man Becoming Aware Of Nature Spirits And Normally Unseen Spiritual Agencies
HMMMM

SOUTH NODE
11-12 deg Virgo

After The Wedding, The Groom Snatches The Veil Away From His Bride
Presumably this is future cos it's SN? I'm not sure i like this one though, seeing as the Groom "snatches" the veil lol sounds violent!!

Progressed composite:
AC
15-16 deg Aries


Nature Spirits Are Seen At Work In The Light Of Sunset
LOL this is SO US!!!!

ANTI VERTEX cj AC
13-14 deg Aries


A Serpent Coiling Near A Man And A Woman
Sounds tantric

NN
10-11 deg Pisces


Men Traveling A Narrow Path, Seeking Illumination
HMMM interesting - twin flames are illuminating.

SOUTH NODE
10-11 deg Virgo


In Her Baby A Mother Sees Her Deep Longing For A Son Answered
This one freaks me out because i am a "mother that desperately wants a baby girl"

LARA
15-16 deg Cancer


A Man Studying A Mandala In Front Of Him, With The Help Of A Very Ancient Book

these Sabians sound very old and spiritually deep, don't they?!!

DAVIDSON
union
27-28 deg Scorpio


The King Of The Fairies Approaching His Domain
LOL

VENUS
27-28 deg Sagittarius


An Old Bridge Over A Beautiful Stream Is Still In Constant Use

DESTINN
6-7 deg Pisces


Illumined By A Shaft Of Light, A Large Cross Lies On Rocks Surrounded By Sea
WOW

ANTI VERTEX
29-30 deg Aquarius


Deeply Rooted In The Past Of A Very Ancient Culture, A Spiritual Brotherhood In Which Many Individual Minds Are Merged Into The Glowing Light Of A Unanimous Consciousness Is Revealed To One Who Has Emerged Successfully From His Metamorphosis

I'm not surprised by any of these - i think with twin flame relationships, the sabians are very deep and soulful.!!

even the BRIEDE sabian is fated.
21-22 deg Leo

A Carrier Pigeon Fulfilling Its Mission

VENUS
27-28 deg Sagittarius


An Old Bridge Over A Beautiful Stream Is Still In Constant Use

posted November 29, 2009 02:47 PM            

yeah I haven`t been feeling too well. On the upside, it helped me losing some more kilos. So I am at the minus 18 point now. lol

"one as a possible Twin Flame sabian - with the "gain experience at two levels of being" words."
Yes, I think this is a possibility.
In the very least I think this might imply two souls, not only physically in touch, but also able to connect to each other spiritually. So that definitely would go for Twinsouls, too.

"SOUTH NODE
11-12 deg Virgo

After The Wedding, The Groom Snatches The Veil Away From His Bride
Presumably this is f"uture cos it's SN? I'm not sure i like this one though, seeing as the Groom "snatches" the veil lol sounds violent!!"
Actually I like that one. In a way it reminds me of the Pluto-Persephone myth. Sometimes people have to be "pushed" a bit to transformation (not in a violent way though). And lifting the veil could also mean opening up her eyes to a truth.
And of course I love the bride-reference.

A friend of mine has an exact synastric Valentine-Pluto-conjunction on this degree with her Twinflame.

BTW the SN is about past, not future.

"AC
15-16 deg Aries


Nature Spirits Are Seen At Work In The Light Of Sunset
LOL this is SO US!!!! "
I love that one. Actually Paul and me share this one, too.
My Draco Sun and his Draco Isis are on that degree. (his Draco Psyche is on his tropical Sun on 16 Aries, so it is still part of the conjunction)

"NTI VERTEX cj AC
13-14 deg Aries


A Serpent Coiling Near A Man And A Woman
Sounds tantric "
Of course I love that one, too. Paul`s and my Composite-SN is on that degree. And Andy`s Valentine conjuncts my Briede on that degree.

"union
27-28 deg Scorpio


The King Of The Fairies Approaching His Domain
LOL"
Explain this to me. How do you interprete it?
I am asking cause my natal Valentine is there.

"VENUS
27-28 deg Sagittarius


An Old Bridge Over A Beautiful Stream Is Still In Constant Use"
My Sekhmet, Reiki and Circe are on that degree. I like it.

"DESTINN
6-7 deg Pisces


Illumined By A Shaft Of Light, A Large Cross Lies On Rocks Surrounded By Sea
WOW"
That is also a strong one. Very spiritual. My natal Pholus is there.

"I'm not surprised by any of these - i think with twin flame relationships, the sabians are very deep and soulful.!!"
Yes, I definitely agree.

posted November 29, 2009 03:21 PM            

His Eros conjunct my Venus on 6 Cap
A Veiled Prophet Speaks, Seized By The Power Of A God

His Mars conjunct my Pluto on 9 Libra
Having Passed Through Narrow Rapids, A Canoe Reaches Calm Waters

his Valentine conjunct my Briede on 13 Aries
A Serpent Coiling Near A Man And A Woman

his Isis conjunct my Atlantis on 8 Sagittarius
A Mother Leads Her Small Child Step By Step Up A Steep Stairway

Composite:

Moon on 22 Pisces
A "Materializing" Medium Giving A Seance

Venus (and my natal Isis) on 8 Cap
An Angel Carrying A Harp

Mars on 7 Scorpio
A Calm Lake Bathed In Moonlight
(it may not be VERY spiritual, but I like the peace and serenity of this one)

Saturn on 20 Taurus (int he shifted charts we also have an ASC-Juno-conjunction on that degree; I thinkit was evne Saturn Shift chart. NOW that makes sense!)
A Finger Pointing To A Line In An Open Book

Pluto on 29 Virgo
Totally Intent Upon Completing An Immediate Task, A Man Is Deaf To Any Allurement

NN on 27 Aquarius
A Tree Felled And Sawed To Ensure A Supply Of Wood For The Winter
This is the degree of my natal Nefertiti (1 degree off his natal Amenhotep) and it always makes me sad. It makes me think of sacrifices for the "greater good".

Destinn on 1 Virgo
A Large White Cross Dominates The Landscape

Valentine on 5 Aquarius
A Masked Figure Performs Ritualistic Acts In A Mystery Play

Atlantis on 1 scorio (my natal Uranus)
A Delicate Bottle Of Perfume Lies Broken, Releasing Its Fragrance

Briede on 23 PIsces (his natal Saturn)
On A Small Island Surrounded By The Vast Expanse Of The Sea, People Are Seen Living In Close Interaction

Groom on 15 Scorpio (his natal SN and my Moira)
A Girl's Face Breaking Into A Smile

Davison:

Moon on 22 Virgo (conjunct his natal Pluto)
A Lion Tamer Displays His Skill And Character

Venus on 16 Scorpio
A Woman, Fecundated By Her Own Spirit, Is "Great With Child

NN on 25 Aquarius
A Garage Man Testing A Car's Battery With A Hydrometer
- this one really feels dangerous

Destinn on 8 Virgo
An Expressionist Painter At Work

Atlantis on 28 Libra (opposing his Moon and conjunct my Adonis and Unon)
Mankind's Vast And Enduring Effort To Reach For Knowledge Transferable From Generation To Generation

Briede on 21 PIsces (exact conjunct my DR Amor and his Chiron)
A Prophet Carrying Tablets Of The New Law Is Walking Down The Slopes Of Mount Sinai

Groom on 17 Scorpio (conjunct his SN and my Moira, opposing my name in my chart)
A Path Through Woods Brilliant With Multicolored Splendor

Not sure what to think of all of these.

posted November 29, 2009 04:17 PM            

with Paul:

Sun on 21 Aquarius
A Rug Is Placed On The Floor Of A Nursery To Allow Children To Play In Comfort And Warmth

Moon on 3 aries
Two Lovers Strolling On A Secluded Walk

Saturn on 28 Aries
The Music Of The Spheres

Pluto on 23 Virgo
Mary And Her Little Lamb

NN on 13 Libra
In The Heat Of The Noon Hour A Man Takes A Siesta

Destinn on 21 Cancer (and to the degree and minute exact on my Eros)
A Young Woman Awaiting A Sailboat

Valentine on 26 Aquarius
An Ancient Pottery Bowl Filled With Fresh Violets

Briede on 6 PIsces
Illumined By A Shaft Of Light, A Large Cross Lies On Rocks Surrounded By Sea

Groom on 29 Aquarius
Deeply Rooted In The Past Of A Very Ancient Culture, A Spiritual Brotherhood In Which Many Individual Minds Are Merged Into The Glowing Light Of A Unanimous Consciousness Is Revealed To One Who Has Emerged Successfully From His Metamorphosis

Wow!

And with Jude:

Sun on 1 Cap
Three Rose Windows In A Gothic Church, One Damaged By War
*gulp*

Moon conj. Mercury on 22 Sag
A Group Of Immigrants As They Fulfill The Requirements Of Entrance Into The New Country

Saturn on 1 Cancer
A Man On A Magic Carpet Hovers Over A Large Area Of Land

Pluto and MC on 6 Libra
A Woman Feeding Chickens And Protecting Them From The Hawks

NN on 28 Sag
A Fat Boy Mowing The Lawn Of His House On An Elegant Suburban Street
Talk about boring. lol

Destinn on 19 Libra
A Rabbi Performing His Duties

Angel on 24 Libra
The Sight Of An Autumn Leaf Brings To A Pilgrim The Sudden Revelation Of The Mystery Of Life And Death
WHOA, that one is not boring

Valentine on 17 Virgo
An Ouija Board

Psyche on 2 Cap
A Human Soul, In Its Eagerness For New Experiences, Seeks Embodiment

Atlantis on 0 Libra
In A Collection Of Perfect Specimens Of Many Biological Forms, A Butterfly Displays The Beauty Of Its Wings, Its Body Impaled By A Fine Dart

Briede on 11 Aquarius
On A Vast Staircase Stand People Of Different Types, Graduated Upward

Groom on 10 Aquarius
During A Silent Hour, A Man Receives A New Inspiration Which May Change His Life

ASC on 8 SAg
A Mother Leads Her Small Child Step By Step Up A Steep Stairway

DAVISON

Angel on 27 Libra
A Man Becoming Aware Of Spiritual Forces Surrounding And Assisting Him

Juno on 12 Cap
A Fire Worshipper Meditates On The Ultimate Realities Of Existence

Valentine on 3 Libra
Around A Campfire A Group Of Young People Sit In Spiritual Communion

Psyche on 26 SAg
A Sculptor At His Work

Groom on 11 Virgo
After The Wedding, The Groom Snatches The Veil Away From His Bride

posted November 30, 2009 02:38 AM            

Sorry I ask you so late in this tread about that but I must miss it?
>>

0 Libra is the logicl choice for a Venus Shift. However, until Taurus' actual mathematical rulign planet or planetoid is discovered, Venus rules it.
Plus, Mars rules Scorpio mathematically, and Venus 0 to Taurus gives the opposite energy.
Thirdly, there was a powerful inisght in the value of Taurus 0 in general in a link given by Katatonic. Hence I am using the Venus Shift at 0 Taurus to thoroughly investigate this theme. I will ofcourse check Venus Shifted to 0 Libra too when I find time.

However, the prime focus is Saturn moved to 0 Capricorn and its true opposite is the Moon shifted to 0 Cancer. It is in ths powerful interplay that we will unlock many secrets. It is said in higher occult circles that Souls Descend from Capricorn and are animated into human bodies from Cancer.

------------------
Soul Mate Love Calculator

posted November 30, 2009 03:02 AM            

does that mean that the natural complimentary shift sharts would be SATURN - MOON and VENUS - PLUTO?

I would love that, cause I already felt a strong interconnection between those two sets of charts.

posted November 30, 2009 03:38 AM            

I feel the essence of the Saturn Shift Chart is the Soul Lessons that we have already learnt, or the knowledge of the karma that has already paid successfully. Emotions create karma. It is a very high occult insight that it is emotional reactions that cause karma and that is why Krishna and Buddha taught ego detachment to avert karmic consequences. Which is perhaps why the Moon Shift is important. It may teach us where we have mastered the art of detaching emotionally.

posted November 30, 2009 04:24 AM            

very interestin thoughts.

"I would want a planet named Persphone to rule Libra..."
Yes, that makes sense to me. She also created a balance (in herself) between young daughter and mature wife, at least if you see this growth / transformation as a balancing act.
Also 00 Libra starts the second half of the year, at least on the Northern side; it signals the beginning of autumn, and I feel that as a goddess of the underworld and especially versatile in the magic arts she fits here.
Maybe it is just my own perception, but I feel like the access to anything magical is far more easy in autumn than in any other season.

" dont know and wont suggest that anyone spend valuable time trying that"

Give me some time and I will have a look.
Of course I will. Curiosity is my name.

"Emotions create karma."
Definitely. And I am even convinced that some kind of karma can be released through emotions too.

" Which is perhaps why the Moon Shift is important. It may teach us where we have mastered the art of detaching emotionally."
Interesting thoughts. I am not yet completely sure how we can express that in the practical interpretation of these charts. Could you maybe give an example for an interpretation of an aspect in the Moon and Saturn charts?

EDIT:
It probablywould make sense to shift Proserpina, as Proserpina is the Roman name and all other planets also have Roman names.

posted November 30, 2009 06:14 AM            

Taireans I find fR more embody the Venusian qualitites such as sensuality. Librana are more airy and mental.

Anyway I did the libra shift and not much there really.

posted November 30, 2009 07:14 AM            

Anyway so I did the Proserpina shift

JUDE:

my x Venus opposite his x Sun (2)
my x Venus conjunct his x Valentine (1)
my x Saturn conjunct his x NN (1)
mxy x Karma conjunct his x Venus (2)

my x Sun conjunct his Pluto(1)
my x Pluto conjunct his SN (1)
my x SN conjunct his Eros (1)

his x ASC conjunct my Juno (2)
his x Juno conjunct my Jupiter (1)

PAUL

my x Pluto opposite his x Valentine (1)
my x Juno conjunct his x Venus (0) 26 Sag
mx x Eros conjunct his x Pluto (0) 0 Taurus

mx x Moon opposite his Valentine (1)
my x Venus opposite his Sun (2)
my x Valentine conjunct his Pluto (2)

his x Sun conjunct my NN (1)
his x Sun conjunct my ASC (2)
his x Venus conjunct my Sun (0) 26 Sag
his x SN conjunct my Pluto (1)
his x Valentine opposite my Saturn (0)
his x Eros conjunct my Valentine (2)

ANDY

my x Sun opposite his x Juno (1)
my x Karma conjunct his x Karma (1)

my x Venus opposite his Valentine (2)
my x Saturn conjunct his Moon 82)
my x SNc onjunct his Pluto (1)

his x NN conjunct my Venus (2)
his x Valentine conjunct my ASC (1)