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Author
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Topic: Petition for Timothy Tyler
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aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 8855
From: tennessee
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted March 19, 2014 11:02 PM
  
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
No actually I find enough nonsense in your short posts to "debate" about.
I think if you look back you will find that to be true. Look at us now.  I can't handle all of your twisted views. We'd be here for eternity. LMAO
No. I actually made valid points in that post and you chose to ignore them. I conceded that some druggies are indeed violent but their violence has nothing to do with their drug use. Consider the fact that some drunks get angry and beat the sh*t out of their wives and kids. Do all drinkers act like that? No, in fact most people who drink never act like that. Would you agree with that?
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Randall
Webmaster Posts: 38813
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted March 19, 2014 11:04 PM
Let me rephrase that. Dealers should receive a harsher sentence than nonviolent users. The reason being that using drugs could arguably be viewed as a public health problem in conjunction with mandatory rehab, where dealing is a voluntary choice to break the law and on a grander scale. Not saying that using isn't voluntary, but dealing is by far worse. We can say all the what ifs we want about how irrational drug laws are and how drugs should be legalized and taxed, but the bottom line is we are a society, and this society has laws. This guy is stupid enough to do the same crime three times and get caught three times knowing very well what the penalty would be. How can anyone fathom in any way that he didn't get what he deserved?IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 8855
From: tennessee
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted March 19, 2014 11:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
Let me rephrase that. Dealers should receive a harsher sentence than nonviolent users. The reason being that using drugs could arguably viewed as a public health problem in conjunction with mandatory rehab, where dealing is a voluntary choice to break the law and on a grander scale. Not saying that using isn't voluntary, but dealing is by far worse. We can say all the what ifs we want about how irrational drug laws are and how drugs should be legalized and taxed, but the bottom line is we are a society, and this society has laws. This guy is stupid enough to do the same crime three times and get caught three times knowing very well what the penalty would be. How can anyone fathom in any way that he didn't get what he deserved?
But the fact is it isnt that simple... When you get into drugs you will almost certainly become a pusher in some capacity because it gives you more access to the drug. Yes,a society has laws but that doesnt mean they are right.
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DeepFreeze
Knowflake Posts: 1316
From: Pluto with Barbiegirl19
Registered: Nov 2013
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posted March 19, 2014 11:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Because you dont want to be proven wrong.
If it helps you sleep at night to believe that then you go ahead. I don't mind. LOL IP: Logged |
DeepFreeze
Knowflake Posts: 1316
From: Pluto with Barbiegirl19
Registered: Nov 2013
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posted March 19, 2014 11:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
[b] No actually I find enough nonsense in your short posts to "debate" about.
I think if you look back you will find that to be true. Look at us now. I can't handle all of your twisted views. We'd be here for eternity. LMAO
No. I actually made valid points in that post and you chose to ignore them. I conceded that some druggies are indeed violent but their violence has nothing to do with their drug use. Consider the fact that some drunks get angry and beat the sh*t out of their wives and kids. Do all drinkers act like that? No, in fact most people who drink never act like that. Would you agree with that? [/B][/QUOTE]No, I ignore ALL of your longer posts.. Everywhere. Exception being the topic starters.
Heck I only read the first couple of sentences of this one and that's what I'm responding to.
I think I am capable of knowing how I feel all by myself. lol
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Violets
Moderator Posts: 2929
From: Twin Peaks
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted March 20, 2014 12:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
But the fact is it isnt that simple... When you get into drugs you will almost certainly become a pusher in some capacity because it gives you more access to the drug. Yes,a society has laws but that doesnt mean they are right.
I agree with this. Most drug dealers I've known were users, and they started dealing in order to support their habits. There are undoubtedly exceptions, but I have yet to encounter many personally. <ETA>
While this may appear to simply prove the point that drugs should always remain outlawed, I personally believe that it would make more sense to offer treatment alternatives to dealers as well as users. As in, an extended period of time (say a year or two) inside a lock-down treatment facility, where there are counselors instead of prison guards (but perhaps also guards if necessary, whatever), and violence is not something that becomes normalized like it does inside regular prisons. Most people don't become addicted to substances because they're @ssholes, they become addicted for other, vastly more complicated reasons. Everyone makes poor decisions, and some people make the same poor decision repeatedly, and they hurt other people in the process. That's a part of life. If you were put in prison for poor decisions that hurt others, where would you be now? Putting people in prison for substance addiction is robbing society of the good that those people might be able to do if they had the chance to turn their lives around, and a prison sentence diminishes those chances considerably.
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PixieJane
Moderator Posts: 4030
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted March 27, 2014 01:40 AM
Speaking on how many become pushers I just came across this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/25/marijuana-use-confessions_n_5009645.html NOTE: the video wasn't worth watching, IMO, the guy basically just repeats himself over and over without saying much of anything (high?  ). I gave up about half way. As for those "whispers," they're right in that being anonymous we can't know which of those are true or not. However, it would match interviews from the documentary I saw (Grass, which can be seen for free here), and it also makes sense when you consider the amount of pot seized and despite that people rarely have problems getting more (the estimate was that about only 10% was seized, but all guesses are iffy when related to the black market). That implies a HUGE number of smokers (tens of millions minimum in the US alone, and that's not counting the huge number in prison!), and since people are buying that means they're not growing and selling, which not only means they're not dealers but since the huge numbers implied by the amount being moved (even when taking kids into account) then they can't ALL be shady dealers or stoners. Therefore, I'm inclined to believe the claim that many really are doctors (who are infamous in some circles as being prone to addiction to the drugs they have easy access to), pastors, cops, etc. That said, I wasn't pleased that one claimed to be a teacher who said to smoke every day before work (same if the person claimed to have a shot of brandy every day just before going to work, especially if they drive) though given what teachers have to put up with I'm also grudgingly sympathetic (I sympathize with the kids even more, however). I also don't believe the claim that 90% of the cops steal the pot from the evidence room and smoke it (though that may be true of an individual precinct somewhere), and as for the drugs that do turn up missing (a national scandal, the DEA loses A LOT of drugs from their evidence room and also guns & ammo illegal for civilians to possess, heck I bet even federal agents are only allowed to use them on the job) I believe is more likely to be sold or traded for favors (though I'm sure some does get used by individual cops, enough get addicted working undercover, though I'd think even they would have safer and more reliable ways to get it than stealing from the evidence room, especially when careers can be bolstered--and not just of cops but also politicians & prosecutors--by bragging of huge seizures in one's career which is hard to do if you smoke the evidence!). I actually consider it more likely for a gun to be stolen from an evidence room and thrown down next to someone shot for sport (as some Houston cops got busted for in I think the 70s, and only got caught because the teenager's mother hired a private investigator who examined the gun the teen had supposedly pulled on the cops before they shot him for sport).
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YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake Posts: 6861
From:
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted March 27, 2014 10:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Violets:
Everyone makes poor decisions, and some people make the same poor decision repeatedly, and they hurt other people in the process. That's a part of life. If you were put in prison for poor decisions that hurt others, where would you be now? Putting people in prison for substance addiction is robbing society of the good that those people might be able to do if they had the chance to turn their lives around, and a prison sentence diminishes those chances considerably.
So as to impinge on the lives of those who make good decisions and infringe on the rights of those who are law abidding? Who do you think pays for those substance abuse programs? Only the tax revenues collected from drug users?
How about the kids of non-drug-using parents who attend educational institutions? Do they not have the right to not be exposed to a society ful of that sh1t? People who make bad decisions are fundamentally not "good." I'm not in the business of paying taxes to support the effort of reforming those who made bad decisions. I want my tax dollars to go to encourage and spur those who make good decisions. IP: Logged |
Violets
Moderator Posts: 2929
From: Twin Peaks
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted March 27, 2014 11:03 AM
Edit.I've had this argument with my family members enough times to understand that it goes nowhere in either direction. My views and beliefs remain unchanged. IP: Logged |
YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake Posts: 6861
From:
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted March 27, 2014 11:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Violets:
Saying that people who make bad decisions are fundamentally not "good" is absurd. Look in the mirror and tell me that you've never made a bad decision.
I don't deal drugs. I don't use drugs.
I don't expose my children to drugs. However you run your household is your perrogative. Don't impinge on my children's rights because I have no desire to expose my children to people like you who infringe on the law. I said bad decisions in the context of the law. Pervert it in whatever manner you deem fit. IP: Logged |
Violets
Moderator Posts: 2929
From: Twin Peaks
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted March 27, 2014 11:25 AM
Obeying the law does not automatically make you a good person. IP: Logged |
Violets
Moderator Posts: 2929
From: Twin Peaks
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted March 27, 2014 11:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
I don't deal drugs. I don't use drugs.I don't expose my children to drugs.
Neither do I. Duh. But thinking that you're actually a decent human being simply because you don't ____________ (fill in the blank) is laughable. There are all sorts of behaviors that are destructive and detrimental to other people and society, and are entirely legal. There are mentalities that are despicable, but no one is going to put someone in jail for thinking atrocious thoughts. IP: Logged |
YoursTrulyAlways
Knowflake Posts: 6861
From:
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted March 27, 2014 11:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Violets:
I know that I've mentioned that I was addicted to heroin for 10 years of my life, but I'm not sure how many people are actually aware of that here. In real life, very few people know that about me, and they certainly wouldn't guess it.
No? Yes.
That alone. It's felonious. The statute of limitations is well past, but your credibility is shot. Don't talk to me about being un-American. IP: Logged |
Violets
Moderator Posts: 2929
From: Twin Peaks
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted March 27, 2014 11:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
No? Yes. That alone. It's felonious. The statute of limitations is well past, but your credibility is shot. Don't talk to me about being un-American.
I couldn't care less about your perceptions of me. The respect level between us is mutual, so save your breath for someone who values your opinion. I USED drugs (past tense). When I was in my twenties. I'm almost forty.  You have also mentioned that you slept with numerous women when you were younger, and yet you preach abstinence, monogamy, and waiting until marriage to have sex.
Using your own reasoning, your credibility is likewise shot.
There's no reason anyone should believe that you conduct yourself any differently today (according to your logic). I did not say anything to you about being un-American. I suggested that if you are so invested in capital punishment for drug users and dealers, that you should move somewhere where those laws are enforced. Clearly, they are not a part of our judicial system here. IP: Logged |
Violets
Moderator Posts: 2929
From: Twin Peaks
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted March 27, 2014 12:48 PM
Anyway, I have absolutely nothing more to say to you, YTA. Please leave me out of your commentary here for future reference. I also have nothing more to add to this thread (and had nothing more to add anyway, until you quoted me and asked me a question directly). However, if you continue to make disparaging implications about my present lifestyle here, I will ask for assistance. Keep your negative presumptions about my personal life to yourself. IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 8855
From: tennessee
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted March 27, 2014 01:02 PM
YTA, I can somewhat understand why you feel the way you do and thats why I dont get angry at you for saying the things you are saying. The fact is this issue doesn't affect you personally so its easy to say "lock em up!" . But what you have to realize is that drug addicts are more than their addictions,they are human beings. They are somebody's : child, father/mother, husband/wife, cousin, uncle/aunt, or friend. The point is they mean something to somebody and they are humans at the end of the day. So just think about that for awhile and maybe it will help you lose that callous attitude. IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 38813
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted March 27, 2014 03:24 PM
We can all agree to disagree, and that's okay. But in that disagreement, let's make an effort not to get personal. Discuss issues and not people. This thread has lost its way and is just centered on contention and bickering, so I'm closing it. IP: Logged |
Topic Closed
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