posted March 18, 2014 06:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
That's a whole different matter though. I agree with what you're saying but it's another pot. Drugs are a looooooot more severe than alcohol. Anyone who denies that is ignorant.

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posted March 18, 2014 07:26 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
How can you even say that? People kill themselves or kill other people as a result of alcohol consumption all the time! The only difference between alcohol and other drugs is alcohol is legal,thats it. Like people who consume alcohol tons of people who do drugs do it responsibly and dont hurt others in the process. A few bad apples ruin it for everybody.... Like me... I rarely drink and when I do drink I do not drive at all. I have the common sense to know that drinking and driving is a bad idea. People who get behind the wheel of a car when they are drunk have only themselves to blame. Its the same with drugs.... You cant blame someones bad decisions on drugs. Blame the person.

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Uhhhhh....

I've seen Meth/crack in and near my family. To say it's no different than alcohol is the most absurd thing I've ever heard I think.
And one cousin hit another cousin in the jaw with a baseball bat over some marijuana. Which is a bit off the specific topic but thought I'd mention it. I'm no stranger to this stuff despite not getting involved myself.

posted March 18, 2014 09:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Uhhhhh....

I've seen Meth/crack in and near my family. To say it's no different than alcohol is the most absurd thing I've ever heard I think.
And one cousin hit another cousin in the jaw with a baseball bat over some marijuana. Which is a bit off the specific topic but thought I'd mention it. I'm no stranger to this stuff despite not getting involved myself.

Just wanted to point that out.

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posted March 18, 2014 10:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
People sometimes do similar things when they are drinking but thats neither here nor there. The point is there are some people who are violent and drugs or alcohol have nothing to do with it. Some people get drunk and get behind the wheel of a car and kill people or themselves and some people get drunk and beat the sh*t out of their wives. And for every drinker who does those things there are 100s of others who dont do any of that and drink responsibly. Its the same with drugs..... So why can we accept that, as a society, when it comes to drinking but not drugs?

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posted March 18, 2014 10:54 PM            

I do not think that meth or crack has ever done anyone any favors. I have seen both ends of the spectrum with drugs and alcohol, but I have a serious loathing for meth and crack.

I do not think those drugs should be legalized, but I simultaneously do not think that prison is a reasonable solution to drug addiction. I do think it is an appropriate solution for people who commit violent acts.

Obviously, I think that other drugs should be legalized based on the prohibition concept. If you disagree, that's fine. Whatever. We disagree.

I also suspect that if other drugs WERE legalized, it would make man-made, creepy drugs like meth less appealing because they could buy whatever else they wanted at the liquor store or something. It could be coca leaves for all I care.

I don't have it mapped out in my head exactly what should be legalized and how, because it's not something that is talked over enough to really weigh the pros and cons of drugs like psychedelics being legal. But still, I don't agree that prison is a viable solution to any of it.

Obviously, I am aware of the laws. No one needs to point them out to me (again). I've been aware of the laws since high school, and somehow have been able to avoid ever going to jail, let alone prison. I have no relatives or friends in prison at this time, and most of my family members are far too conservative to have ever so much as smoked pot. So I've had this argument before. Too many times, really.

I have, on occasion, encountered the odd coworker who was a functional meth user. That always struck me as weird, because I have seen meth and crack turn reasonably normal people into paranoid, violent, perverted weirdos. But I've also met people who used it the way that most people use alcohol.

So I can see both sides.
For the record.

posted March 18, 2014 11:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Violets:
I don't think he was suggesting that weird drugs like bath salts, PCP, or sherm should be legalized or are comparable to alcohol, for the record.
Although I can't speak for AG...but I would think that would just go without saying.

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He said "drugs" and "only difference" so he should include those details. kind of important.

posted March 18, 2014 11:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
He said "drugs" and "only difference" so he should include those details. kind of important.

Buuuuut... I only wanted to point that out as it was just crazy to think that.
don't want to debate the whole legal/petition thing. That house burnt down already.

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posted March 18, 2014 11:19 PM            

Once renting some movies I saw a guy be a total loud A-hole to the clerks over something stupid but they remained so polite & professional (until the guy yelling gave up in trying to rattle them) that I complimented them on that. They all bragged that they were on psyche meds, just started weeks apart for all of them, and that bothered me. Don't know how much the drugs played a part but a few months later not a single one of them was still working there (and the store did have other long term employees) and I'm sure had they instead been doing something illegal rather than prescribed that many people who promote psyche meds would've said there was a lesson to be learned there on doing illegal drugs.

And a friend of mine turned to psyche meds to get over her depression to get through medical school but found she couldn't focus (and strangely would burst into tears for "no reason" at random, even at lectures) and was going to have to drop out...so she dropped the psyche meds and switched to cocaine. And it worked, her grades picked right back up. She wasn't particularly happy but at least she hoped she'd be able to get through it. I only rarely have contact with her now (and only via email) so I only know enough that she's still on track for becoming a doctor...maybe I'll email her later and ask about that, but I'm not sure I should (and smart thing to do would be to tell me no even if she was an addict now).

posted March 19, 2014 12:12 AM            

However, I've seen stupid catch-all terms like "bipolar" and "ADHD" thrown out there so thoughtlessly, with prescription meds added that I want to pull my hair out.

Yes, clearly some people are legitimately bipolar (still on the fence about ADHD, tbh).

But my mom was diagnosed as bipolar (which she is not...highly dysfunctional, yes, but not bipolar), and one particularly inept doctor prescribed Zyprexa for her, which is an antipsychotic used for schizophrenic people. Not only that, but it increases weight gain significantly, and my mom is already a technically obese diabetic.

I could have kicked that particular doctor in the head I was so mad.

I won't get started on the pharmaceutical industry, because I probably won't be able to stop.

But I still think that meth and crack are entirely different entities from cocaine. But I can understand the appeal. Meth lasts longer and is cheaper, and crack is more potent. So...I don't have any answers on that one. They all gross me out, personally.

But I still believe that people should be able to do whatever they want with their own bodies...I just don't like the effects of those particular drugs.

posted March 19, 2014 01:00 AM            

I don't want to detract from your personal experiences with the violence that alcohol can induce. It can often rival that of drugs like meth.

My mom had similar experiences growing up, having to leave in a rush to hide at someone's house with my grandma, aunt and uncle, because her alcoholic father was literally going to shoot them all in an alcoholic rage. They didn't dare go back to the house for at least two days until he had calmed down.
They never knew if he was going to come home and offer to take them out for ice cream or threaten to shoot them all.

posted March 19, 2014 01:15 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
You cant blame someones bad decisions on drugs. Blame the person.

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posted March 19, 2014 01:33 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
I have yet to hear about a drunk eating another person's face like bathsalts, or hallucinating, or the kind of mayhem that pcp can cause...being COMPLETELY unfazed by pepper spray and I even saw where a stungun didn't do much. And it goes on.
Don't be so ridiculous and foolishly stubborn to stick to that story man.
That's crazy talk.

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posted March 19, 2014 02:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Violets:
Also, I'm going to be totally objective here (people's vehement responses can make that somewhat difficult at times).

I do not think that meth or crack has ever done anyone any favors. I have seen both ends of the spectrum with drugs and alcohol, but I have a serious loathing for meth and crack.

I do not think those drugs should be legalized, but I simultaneously do not think that prison is a reasonable solution to drug addiction. I do think it is an appropriate solution for people who commit violent acts.

Obviously, I think that other drugs should be legalized based on the prohibition concept. If you disagree, that's fine. Whatever. We disagree.

I also suspect that if other drugs WERE legalized, it would make man-made, creepy drugs like meth less appealing because they could buy whatever else they wanted at the liquor store or something. It could be coca leaves for all I care.

I don't have it mapped out in my head exactly what should be legalized and how, because it's not something that is talked over enough to really weigh the pros and cons of drugs like psychedelics being legal. But still, I don't agree that prison is a viable solution to any of it.

Obviously, I am aware of the laws. No one needs to point them out to me (again). I've been aware of the laws since high school, and somehow have been able to avoid ever going to jail, let alone prison. I have no relatives or friends in prison at this time, and most of my family members are far too conservative to have ever so much as smoked pot. So I've had this argument before. Too many times, really.

I have, on occasion, encountered the odd coworker who was a functional meth user. That always struck me as weird, because I have seen meth and crack turn reasonably normal people into paranoid, violent, perverted weirdos. But I've also met people who used it the way that most people use alcohol.

So I can see both sides.
For the record.

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posted March 19, 2014 03:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Me and my friends bought the incense (synthetic marijuana) and tried it a few years ago. We all agreed that we didnt like it and havent done it since

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posted March 19, 2014 03:20 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Violets:
I don't want to detract from your personal experiences with the violence that alcohol can induce. It can often rival that of drugs like meth

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It doesn't detract, it complements it.

posted March 19, 2014 03:20 AM            

quote:

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And smuggling, as in the case of alcoholic beverages, would become an organized industry, large in scale and lordly in profits. Imagine the supplies that would pour over the long Canadian and Mexican borders! And into every port on every incoming ship!

Certainly, the history of the attempt to enforce Prohibition should give even uplifters pause. A case of whisky is a bulky object. It must be transported on a truck. It can not be disguised. Yet in every American city today a case of whisky may be bought almost as readily as a pair of shoes despite all the armed guards along the Canadian border, and all the guard ships off the ports, and all the raiding, snooping and murdering everywhere else. Thus the camel gets in and yet the proponents of the new anti-pistol law tell us that they will catch the gnat! Go whisper it to the Marines!

Such a law, indeed, would simply make gun-toting swagger and fashionable, as Prohibition has made guzzling swagger and fashionable. When I was a youngster there were no Prohibition agents; hence I never so much as drank a glass of beer until I was nearly 19. Today, Law Enforcement is the eighth sacrament and the Methodist Board of Temperance, Prohibition and Public Morals by itself authority for the sad news that the young of the land are full of gin. I remember, in my youth, a time when the cops tried to prohibit the game of catty. At once every boy in Baltimore consecrated his whole time and energy to it. Finally, the cops gave up their crusade. Almost instantly catty disappeared.

The real victim of moral legislation is always the honest, law-abiding, well-meaning citizen—what the late William Graham Summer called the Forgotten Man. Prohibition makes it impossible for him to take a harmless drink, cheaply and in a decent manner. In the same way the Harrison Act puts heavy burdens upon the physician who has need of prescribing narcotic drugs for a patient, honestly and for good ends. But the drunkard still gets all the alcohol that he can hold, and the drug addict is still full of morphine and cocaine. By precisely the same route the Nation’s new law would deprive the reputable citizen of the arms he needs for protection, and hand them over to the rogues that he needs protection against.

Ten or fifteen years ago there was an epidemic of suicide by bichloride of mercury tablets. At once the uplifters proposed laws forbidding their sale, and such laws are now in force in many States, including New York. The consequences are classical. A New Yorker, desiring to lay in an antiseptic for household use, is deprived of the cheapest, most convenient and most effective. And the suicide rate in New York, as elsewhere, is still steadily rising.

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posted March 19, 2014 04:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
The way to end all drugs. Impose on all possession.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_drug_trafficking

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Didn't work for Iran, they changed their policy as it was failing and it improved (though they retain capital punishment for trafficking which includes even having too much of a drug on you).

posted March 19, 2014 06:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
The way to end all drugs. Impose on all possession.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_drug_trafficking

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We're aware of your views on this subject. My valid suggestion to you is that you move to one of the countries that impose those laws, since you apparently feel so strongly about it.
As you are so fond of repeating, the law is the law. Everyone knows it. It does not include capital punishment for drug trafficking or possession. If you don't like it, move elsewhere.

As far as your belief that capital punishment should be a valid punishment for drug activity, are you suggesting that anyone caught possessing drugs should receive capital punishment?