posted March 17, 2014 05:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Violets:
I would say that you have a longstanding history of this type of thing here, so I would be more inclined to say that it's a Barbiegirl trait.

But good luck projecting your behavior onto others.

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posted March 17, 2014 05:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
You're "picking" with me just to pick.

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If you don't like what I'm saying, that's your problem, not mine.

posted March 17, 2014 05:12 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
Prove it please. Go find these instances that I haven't been able to just walk away after proving a point LOL.

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posted March 17, 2014 05:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
Who ever said anything about not liking anything that you're saying? LOL all I said is that you're picking just to pick.

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posted March 17, 2014 05:18 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
Did I say anything was wrong with it? LOL

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posted March 17, 2014 05:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Violets:
Ha ha. No, you didn't. Fair enough. Let's call it a day.

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posted March 17, 2014 05:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
Good day

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posted March 17, 2014 05:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Violets:
Ha.

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posted March 17, 2014 05:59 PM            

So here, we have people telling the facts, telling the truth.
We have people denying them and using stubborn force to push away those who tell the facts and the truth... A kind of bullying.

Buuuuut anyway...
Good luck with changing the law or getting sympathy. There's an army of families who will argue to keep it.

posted March 17, 2014 06:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
In Omaha, where I have family. A month ago or so (I think that's when) a 5 year old girl died at the breakfast table when a stray bullet entered the house, through her head, and exited the house. (high powered rifle)
It was the result of some drug related gang activity. And that's the SECOND time it's happened.
When you have stories like that all over I don't think there will be any sympathy for these people at the end of it all.
So argue it, make a petition, and good luck!

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There were stories about that regarding alcohol back when it was prohibited. It's not the drugs that caused her to die by a rifle in a gang war, it's the prohibition that places the control of the substances in the hands of criminals (who then provide incentives to their networks to get as many new customers as possible). That's just one of the reasons why some want to decriminalize, to keep innocents from dying as she did. Once regulated then the gangs won't have it to fight over anymore, just like alcohol.

posted March 17, 2014 06:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
So....
There are laws that have been in place. People can't be that ignorant not to know of them or the punishment. Yet, they choose to cheat the system to make extra, illegal, tax-free money. When it hits close to home then the punishment is unacceptable even though it was known about before the crime was committed. Whether or not someone agrees with the law or punishment is not recognized by a law. A judge isn't going to have sympathy because someone thinks it's unfair. They have already decided and that is known too. In fact I believe (based on personal experience) that criminals know the relevant laws better than many of us do.
How can someone refuse the law and expect sympathy when they KNEW what the risk is?

So here, we have people telling the facts, telling the truth.
We have people denying them and using stubborn force to push away those who tell the facts and the truth... A kind of bullying.

Buuuuut anyway...
Good luck with changing the law or getting sympathy. There's an army of families who will argue to keep it.

In Omaha, where I have family. A month ago or so (I think that's when) a 5 year old girl died at the breakfast table when a stray bullet entered the house, through her head, and exited the house. (high powered rifle)
It was the result of some drug related gang activity. And that's the SECOND time it's happened.
When you have stories like that all over I don't think there will be any sympathy for these people at the end of it all.
So argue it, make a petition, and good luck!

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posted March 17, 2014 10:44 PM            

You're punishing what ? Man made rules ? What if I don't want to be a part of your society ? Am I aloud to exit ?

Drug dealers are not murderers. No one forces drugs to my throat... If you say most of the criminals are drug users, then you can say most of the criminals are alcohol users as well. So what shall we do ? Forbid alcohol ?

Would you stop drinking a glass of wine, because your state forbids it ?

Society is a collection of individuals... It can not dictate to me how I shall live.

come on set the guy free...

We drug users know it's not our dealers fault.

posted March 17, 2014 11:30 PM            

So, if one state was to liberalise marijuana, decriminalise it without a conviction say upon possession or supply etc, then that state in effect will attract industries which will grow marijuana, which will then be used to supply people from other states that has not decriminalised marijuana. Basically, your state will act as a repository for drugs and usurp the upholding of law of another state through the decriminalisation of this industry.

I am sure then through some sort of constitutional action the usurped state will sue the decriminalising state, I'm not sure of the mechanism of this. Certainly in the country that I live in, it could very well happen as each state is to "give full faith and credit" to the laws of another state.

Decriminalisation was attempted where I was and it did increase drug trade interstate. Since then, it did tighten up and there has been from my understanding some attempt across states to not necessarily mirror legislation but make it uniform for the sake of brevity and protecting the laws of all states (and originally enacted to cut down on court traffic).

My understanding of US law us sketchy but the only way I can see how it can be done is for a complete change of laws in the US across the 51 states (getting 51 parties to agree sounds impossible) or petition your local member or whoever is in charge with the above ramifications. I'm not sure if there is an national legislation that allows blanket agreement across the states or whether there is even laws on the national level.

To go back to the origins post though, I would not sign because:

1. I am not American and this does not concern me legally;
2. He violated the law three times and was proved to do so and thus, he fulfilled the test for a life sentence. Ignorance is no defence of the law and based on how the matter is written up, it seems to be an offence of absolute liability - no defence upon facts proven for the elements of the offence. Any "bleeding heart" defences such as poverty, contrition go to sentencing but it seems this offence just carries flat life.

I could say so much more but my concern also is the floodgates issues too. With the "normalisation" of drug use and supply in society, will we also legalise other crimes (paedophillia, bestiality, corporate fraud?) or do we see this simply as a matter of "consent of adults"? Well, what about your 11yo strung out on dope?

In relation to Sis - this is how far your believe "The Social Contract" exists. Do you believe as a citizen of your country that you give up a little bit of your power to live in some level of peace and out of respect for other citizens who agree with the law? I can only speak for my country but by the election of your member of parliament and thus the laws they pass, they have mandate and therefore can hold you accountable for violating laws.

posted March 18, 2014 12:25 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by 23:
[B]Decriminalisation was attempted where I was and it did increase drug trade interstate. Since then, it did tighten up and there has been from my understanding some attempt across states to not necessarily mirror legislation but make it uniform for the sake of brevity and protecting the laws of all states (and originally enacted to cut down on court traffic).

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Decriminalization still criminalizes large amounts trafficked, at least that's my understanding of how it worked in places like Portugal.

Also, here in California there are legal pot repositories, though only for medical conditions, and the drug dealers hate them. In large part is because these dispensaries practice safe and fair practices while the criminals do not and those with the right card can make extra money buying pot for someone who doesn't have a card (no bulk purchases) and even at a markup for profit it's still a better deal than the criminals give, and also a lot less chance of violence.

Interesting enough, plenty of California potheads are against any legalization as they fear the evil corporations taking it over and turning it into something bland, I guess like replacing real hamburgers with Big Macs, I suppose. (Also funny, plenty of potheads who do want it legalized want tobacco prohibited and a marijuana magazine lost subscribers for selling advertisement space to cigarette companies.)

quote:

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I am not American and this does not concern me legally

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Fair enough, sounds valid to me. 'Course the same reason can be used not to sign petitions for people suffering from breaking the laws in other countries, like gays in Africa or a woman driving in Saudi Arabia (they know the penalty for breaking the laws, whatever anyone may think of them).

quote:

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I could say so much more but my concern also is the floodgates issues too. With the "normalisation" of drug use and supply in society, will we also legalise other crimes (paedophillia, bestiality, corporate fraud?) or do we see this simply as a matter of "consent of adults"? Well, what about your 11yo strung out on dope?

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We legalized alcohol, did that legalize bestiality, paedophilia, etc?

Interesting enough, many also say allowing gay marriage will allow pedophilia and incest yet many of the US states strongest against gay marriage allow first cousins to marry and a century ago it was okay to marry children when gay sexuality was still treated as a criminal offense & mental illness. Poe legally married his 13-year-old cousin, for example, and we can see Islamic states that carry the death penalty for homosexuality also allow grown men to marry preteen girls. I have to wonder where the slippery slope arguments come from, because they don't come from history or the real world, and they remind me of a principal justifying calling the police on a boy for wearing his cap backward and said if that was allowed then kids might start wearing dead skin masks next (seriously, it was about that bad).

And "consent of adults" does not include 11-year-olds. Currently, 11-year-olds are unable to purchase alcohol in the United States (just as they're unable to legally consent to sex, sign contracts, etc, that are legal for adults to do with each other), and providing an 11-year-old with alcohol is typically a criminal offense (certainly to sell alcohol to such)...and it's easier for kids to get the illegal drugs than it is to get alcohol in large part because criminals take prohibited drugs to the kids whereas the kids have to go to the stores to get alcohol which are heavily regulated and subject to sting operations to those willing to sell to minors which makes the liquor stores extremely cautious about losing their legal business and/or income (not to mention jail). So your nightmare sitch of an 11-year-old strung out on dope is more likely to happen now than under decriminalization, and can be said to be one of the "consequences" you speak of, only of prohibition rather than regulation.

posted March 18, 2014 04:21 PM            

(* That's not even counting attempted homicide, including the one I saw of my drunk mother trying to take the shotgun to my dad. Not sure if she was too ignorant to switch the safety off or just too drunk but it's the only reason he's still alive, and perhaps me, too. Dad made a more credible attempt to kill us both when he was drunk but luckily he didn't have the shotgun on him. And I lost count how many times I saw Dad "fall asleep" drunk with a lit cigarette in his hands!)

July 4, 2012, very drunk neighbors knocked my trashcan into the street (as they parked on the sidewalk right where my trashcan had been and left my trashcan in the street) and as I dragged it out of the street back to my yard they (very drunk around their truck) made several sexually explicit comments to me (at least they didn't chase me as some drunks at an apartment complex did). I thought about calling the cops on them and wished I had once the drunks peeled out of there, possibly to kill someone driving as they were. But if they did there's a "program" for them if they can afford it that lets them purchase a get out of jail free card since they weren't sober (I wonder if that program is available to those under the influence of illegal drugs as well?).