posted October 29, 2012 06:04 PM            

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Yep, between your ASC, and Red's/my Mars we have a regular lion's den going on in here. lol

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Oh, and I'm stealing 222 before Red does!

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posted October 29, 2012 06:16 PM            

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My daughter's in the loft, and I have four boys in one room

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Damn! What they like!!!! (astro-wise?) My sister, Mahanni, has this strange theme with her children! They're all air signs! She herself is a Libra and her man is a Leo.

The order is like this: Libra, Libra, Gemini, Aquarius, Gemini. The last one was born early, he literally caught Gemini on one of the last degrees (27). I was kinda worried actually if he would have been a lonely Cancer among all the air. There's plenty of water in the kids, and a marked lack of fire, though. The only notable fire is in the Aquarius via Aries rising, and he has the shortest fuse out of all of them,

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Will try again when the wind isn't trying to knock my house over

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Lmao frickin'...I'm safely tucked away behind a mountain and lake, while sitting on the Canadian Shield. No hurricanes or even strong winds ever affect me.

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Let's see, how about this, our thrones are hidden inside the cave walls and fold down

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LOLLLL...I always wanted to kick Lana Del Rey aside and take her throne...maybe show the tigers to the door too. I just like the hall and especially her big ol' chair. I wouldn't mind a crown of roses, either.

posted October 30, 2012 05:07 PM            

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Good luck on your storms, and please keep us posted so we know you are safe.

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Thank you, everything's fine with us.

posted October 30, 2012 07:59 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
Thank you, everything's fine with us.

ttyl =)

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Glad to hear, =)

posted October 31, 2012 10:27 AM            

Sorry for any inconvenience, the thread is glitching and won't let me correct mistakes.

posted October 31, 2012 08:35 PM            

I thought maybe all that air in the family would give everyone practice and make them brilliant with words. 'Might still happen once they settle down!

posted October 31, 2012 08:37 PM            

Hi lions,

Hope all is well with you!

The storm was almost disappointingly mild for us...apart from watching several transformers blow up and light the sky green, and listening to howling winds, and having a messy yard, there was nothing. Even my brother who lives 5 miles from Atlantic City never lost power. But I am grateful everyone's okay.

"Cosmic Love" became my anthem for the storm:

The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out!
You left me in the dark.
No dawn, no day, I'm always in this twilight...

because that's kind of what it looked like. Today we are travelling back up to our country house. (Edit: travelled...we're here now. All is well.)

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I think the images in this one are important.

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Erm....okay. This reminds me of when I studied art history and enjoyed the intellectual discussion of an abstract piece of art way better than the art itself. I mean, thanks for sharing your insights about that video that (sorry!) I can't even stand to watch.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
There is also the more serious perspective of how parasitic relationships can be, how we rely so heavily on others to recharge our pride, safety, worth, ecstasy, etc.

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Yeah, it's all weird.

Am I being redundant yet, when I say that I think it all goes back to us being tribal creatures? But the tribes are dispersed, the sacredness of tribal belief systems is rare...so we try extra hard to forge links with people, to compensate. It gets a little pathetic sometimes.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
There is a sinister aspect to symbiosis when one thinks of it in terms of consumption.

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I guess I don't think of video zombies as sinister, that's where it all failed to compute for me. It's part of my larger antipathy towards all things that are overtly gothic, spooky, black, skeletal. (Oh and Happy Halloween, by the way.)

To me, when a person sets out to advertise their fascination with death like that, I tend to assume (or just wrongly presume) that they just don't know death well enough.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
With Sag Sun 8H there are strong moments of spiritual and philosophical elation followed by deep drops into comprehending the severity of life.

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I wonder what it's like for you in those drops. Do you get depressed?

My oldest son has an 8H Sag sun. He's generally pretty happy-go-lucky. But then he doesn't shrink from tragedy/morbidity, either. He gets totally immersed in books on disasters like the Titanic or Nazi Germany.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
If the plant is cut, if their neighboring plants are cut, if a fire is near by, the plants react with distress.

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Yes yes. I've read most of The Secret Life of Plants and have been talking to/praying with vegetation ever since. 'Found some wild daisies last week and almost picked them for a bouquet. Then I thought, "No, I'm sorry for considering that, daisies," and assumed that they were comforted by my apology.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
When asked how we should eat food, the Buddha told a story about a family who crossed a great desert.

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I love talking to you, partly because you surprise me all the time. Is this a koan, something just to contemplate,or was he outright teaching that we should be like that? That enlightenment consists of this?

On the one hand, I'm lying if I say that I can fathom feeling the same way about canabalizing my own children as I would feel about plucking baby lettuce from a garden row. On the other hand, I think gratitude is part of the essence of true spirituality, and whatever enhances one's ability to be profoundly grateful for life and all that it brings, I will think about. Could I ever possibly love the baby lettuce like my own child? If so, that would change everything, wouldn't it?

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Sag will make everyone in a random Australian pub donate, by winning a bet that they can do 3 drunken back flips off a pool table...

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LOL! I've always liked Sags, and can imagine them doing that.

And I have some really good memories of hanging out with foreign Sag people in pubs, by the way.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Where these energies are pieced together, you find a person constantly having to outwit oppressive structures, in order to express their self as an individual. And that individuality is viewed in the light of service to humanity.

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I teared up reading that. It's the noble part of my life story, summed up in two sentences. Thank you, it's like you sewed up an old, deep wound just by noticing it's there.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
It validates the illusions that those who hold the whip have a reason to use it, and those who are being whipped somehow deserve it.

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Geez, after all these millenia, you'd think people would have evolved past this. Ritualistic abuse dramas. Great. But it does seem to go against the accepted notion of Capricorn as wise. Maybe it's our job to resolve this ancient baggage (?)

On a related note, I was just thinking lately about how cruel religion has been toward married people, throughout the ages, by insisting that it's more important for the establishment to remain intact than the people themselves. Caps are traditionalists, and I think we reap the benefits of long-held traditions (smart) but also perpetuate the follies of them until or unless we evolve.

posted October 31, 2012 08:39 PM            

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Here are a few more Tiny House designs I enjoy.

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Fabulous! Especially the floaty one.

I've always dreamed of living in small spaces...when I was little I would daydream about being homeless and living in a refridgerator box or sleeping in a tube slide. Then I wanted to seriously live in my clubhouse, or the big dream was a treehouse. Funny...nothing's really changed, I've just upgraded from the cardboard box since I'm not as cold tolerant as I used to be, and prefer just a few more amenities.

Of course this would be a retreat house for me since the rest of my family wouldn't fit. I posted these on an architecture thread a few months ago:

posted November 01, 2012 12:00 PM            

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Faith: I thought maybe all that air in the family would give everyone practice and make them brilliant with words. 'Might still happen once they settle down!

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Hmmmm...well they have shown to be rather mature as they're chatty and will talk with adults like they would any one else, and they can pick up reading and writing if you sat down with them one-on-one. But you know how air is...its natural function is to spread across whatever space is provided and to gather and connect, rather that focus and do.

How about your brood, how are they? Any strong tendencies for either element?

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Faith: If you feel like discussing this...I'm wondering, what are your thoughts about Sag's tarot card...and Scorpio's?

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Scorpio is the Death card lol! Is it even surprising? It's just the usual leaving one thing behind, going to another, the "death" of something and the "new life" of something else...change, etc.

posted November 02, 2012 04:55 AM            

Cosmic Love is one of my favorites. It was actually the song that introduced me to Florence. She and her band are quite brilliant.

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Originally posted by Faith:
....I think it all goes back to us being tribal creatures?...

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Originally posted by Faith:
I guess I don't think of video zombies as sinister, that's where it all failed to compute for me. It's part of my larger antipathy towards all things that are overtly gothic, spooky, black, skeletal.

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Oh well, both our Moons are square my Sun, so I can identify with the feeling that my Sun is annoying =)

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Originally posted by Faith:
I wonder what it's like for you in those drops. Do you get depressed?

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Originally posted by Faith:
Is this a koan, something just to contemplate,or was he outright teaching that we should be like that? That enlightenment consists of this?

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It's a tough message to teach, "turn off your senses and see what remains". Food does lose some of its appeal, when one considers that what they are eating used to be a living, breathing, experiencing, being. Realizing that we must consume life in order to remain alive places a great responsibility on one's shoulders, especially when one comprehends that they are no more worthy to live than the beings they are consuming.

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Originally posted by Faith:
Could I ever possibly love the baby lettuce like my own child?

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Quite literally, your child is in the lettuce. It is merely perspective which dictates which parts of your child are important and which parts no longer matter. The key is perhaps not finding love for the lettuce, but embracing the unconditional truth of the situation. The only thing that separates your child from the lettuce is a long list of descriptive words. It's not easy at all. It's contrary to an entire life of mental conditioning.

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Originally posted by Faith:
But it does seem to go against the accepted notion of Capricorn as wise. Maybe it's our job to resolve this ancient baggage (?)

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Originally posted by Faith:
Caps are traditionalists, and I think we reap the benefits of long-held traditions (smart) but also perpetuate the follies of them until or unless we evolve.

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Originally posted by Faith:
If you feel like discussing this...I'm wondering, what are your thoughts about Sag's tarot card...and Scorpio's?

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In the Alister Crowley deck, the Temperance card is called Chemistry. This card represents the balancing of strong forces into a synthesis. One of Sag's main challenges in life is balancing all the huge forces in their personality, into a focused and functional result. Otherwise, Sag can be a very volatile and unstable mixture of extremes. If you have ever ridden a horse, it is the perfect analogy. If the rider doesn't have perfect posture, the horse can be hard to direct. When the rider is sitting correctly and can maintain that posture, the mind and body of both creatures connect and they move as one being. This is best expressed with lipizzaner stallions , each dressage move is controlled by slight shifts in weight or leg position, yet those subtle controls are profound enough to use a horse as a weapon. Sorry the announcer is soooooooo borning, but the ponies are purty.

My Halloween was mellow, thanks for asking. My step father and his dad celebrated Día de los Muertos today, so there were all sorts of candles, flowers, and offerings at my parent's house. There is always something nostalgic about candles and offerings on an altar. LOL

I liked your tiny house pics, though the maxi pad door on the sphere is a bit distracting hehe.

=D

posted November 02, 2012 09:42 AM            

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Xiiro: In the Alister Crowley deck, the Temperance card is called Chemistry.

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posted November 02, 2012 02:44 PM            

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Originally posted by RedScorp:
Omg that's actually pretty cool! Chemistry...hmm, something to think about lmfao!

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I just looked it up and guess what, it's called "Art" not Chemistry. =P Not sure where I got chemistry from (though it's still fitting). Perhaps the image of a person gradually mixing fire and water together has something to do with it.

posted November 02, 2012 11:03 PM            

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Originally posted by RedScorp:
Hmmmm...well they have shown to be rather mature as they're chatty and will talk with adults like they would any one else, and they can pick up reading and writing if you sat down with them one-on-one.

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That's pretty good! A lot of kids won't do that. And I like how you described air signs.

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Originally posted by RedScorp:
How about your brood, how are they? Any strong tendencies for either element?

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Caption: "We have no idea what you're talking about."

They are mostly astrological mutts, each of them. I have two water suns, 1 fire, 1 air, 1 earth. Then, 2 earth moons, 1 fire, 1 air, 1 water.

Only that little one there, who's four, has a very dominant element, being water: Cancer sun/Venus/Mercury; Scorpio moon; Pisces Uranus.

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Originally posted by RedScorp:
Scorpio is the Death card lol! Is it even surprising? It's just the usual leaving one thing behind, going to another, the "death" of something and the "new life" of something else...change, etc.

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Ok! That does make sense, maybe that's why Scorpio is also associated more with activity that gives rise to new life. And Scorpio is deep like the roots that settle in soil that's thriving and decaying at once.

Or am I stretching it too far?

As for Sag, I like all the cards presented including the one Xiiro just made up for us. I actually identify more closely with the Sag card than the Devil in chains, maybe it's my two Sag planets versus one Cap sun, or just my preference.

I guess if you learn that stillness and control crucial to dressage, you might stiffen to the point of feeling in chains.

posted November 02, 2012 11:43 PM            

I'm jealous you got to sort of participate in Día de los Muertos. Did you stepfather and his father cook any favorite food of their...muertos?

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Alas, all destruction seems to avoid San Diego like the plague.

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Tragic.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I think that has a lot to do with things socially, however even one's reliance on food, air, and information is parasitic. Much of life (as humans understand it) is based on sustenance through external means.

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I see...but "parasitic" has such a negative connotation. Sustenance through external means can also be a lovely thing...like your Buddhist friends relying on others to feed them. Or in situations like this.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Serious things become cheesy and silly...ridiculous.

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I guess certain phenomena relating to death can be cheesy, except the suffering...and I think most of the time death involves some suffering. Does your thinking differ from that?

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
It's part of the reason Capricorn can't dance.

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LOL! It's like you know EVERYTHING about me. Good explanation there, though.

What sign dances best...Leo? (Patrick Swayze OMG)

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I am the same as your son...

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That's why I adopted you.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
People often say things like, "God, I've never told anyone that before"

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Glad I'm not the only one.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
...because once I focus on a person, they just kind of unfold. Having Sun in the 8th is like running around in a world filled with Russian nesting dolls.

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That's so interesting. I believe you, and as I probably already said somewhere, I envy the experiences you have. I think my 8H moon is similar, but it's a gentler, subtler, quieter process. People often start talking about tragedies and hardship with me, soon after we meet. I don't know why, the conversation naturally just seems to flow in that direction. Like I met a woman whose child was stillborn, and we ended up talking about that for two hours. She was a stranger to me but we both put life on hold to have this conversation. But I don't mean to claim special ability, it could be as simple as empathy and just saying, "Mm hmm" a lot.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
He taught that our senses keep us in a constant state of overload and while we continue to feed those senses with flavors, sounds, smells, sensations, and images which inspire attachment or aversion, then we are drowning out the truth of existence.

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Reading that this morning, I got this neat, other-wordly feeling that you had crept into my mind while I was asleep. I was reading a book that mentioned something like this before I went to bed last night. Then, I woke up around 4:30 a.m. with a perfectly clear understanding of its meaning. Like I was looking at pure, unadulterated LIFE for a few minutes. For all I know, you were typing that ("truth of existence") as I felt that I was glimpsing it.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
The Buddha taught his monastics that they should only eat food which was given to them, and they should return the favor by feeding those who nourish them, with spiritual teachings.

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I'm wondering what you ate at the monastery? (This is my second food question, can you tell I'm kind of hungry? I'm trying to ease into more fruit, but it's bitter cold here and I get hungry when the mercury drops.)

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Realizing that we must consume life in order to remain alive places a great responsibility on one's shoulders, especially when one comprehends that they are no more worthy to live than the beings they are consuming.

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That is sobering.

This just popped into mind so I'll share it with you. I was impressed, a few months ago, reading this in a book I have called Philosophy of Hatha Yoga by Pandit Arya:

As a yogi refines himself he becomes more conscious of all the functions of his body- what is happening in the stomach, the liver, the kidneys. One of the reasons the yogis devised the methods of internal cleansing was that when they sat down to meditate, even the slightest particle in the ducts or in the intestines was felt to be present and caused the mind to become distracted. That irritant had to be removed.

These ways of looking at food are so radically different from our convenience culture, it's like different species are co-existing based on their level of awareness with consumption.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
The same skin cells you touched when you kissed your child's cheek, floated on the air and fertilized that lettuce on it's determined (and now unrealized) path to grow up big, strong, and make babies of its own.

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Yes, and you are kind to remind me of kissing baby cheeks, because my kids are so big now, and I miss that!

Tangent elicited by my fascination with your way of communicating, and how you were born on the same day as one of my all-time favorite authors, Joseph Conrad, who was also a Snake, and who famously said:

My task which I am trying to achieve is, by the power of the written word, to make you hear, to make you feel — it is, before all, to make you see. That — and no more, and it is everything. If I succeed, you shall find there according to your deserts: encouragement, consolation, fear, charm — all you demand; and, perhaps, also that glimpse of truth for which you have forgotten to ask.

^ Your writing reminds me of that.

Oh and sorry if I'm using too many quotes, I just like them a lot.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
The only thing that separates your child from the lettuce is a long list of descriptive words. It's not easy at all. It's contrary to an entire life of mental conditioning.

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I've become rather nebulous in my old age, and a little cantankerous about having any duties laid upon me to hold any popular truths sacred. So I am comfortable with your line of reasoning, I am open to de-conditioning.

Besides, when I was little, I once cried about the death of the banana I ate.

My daughter adopted a bunch of cilantro as a doll a few years ago. Her name was Cilla, and I kept her swaddled in a paper towel and bag in the fridge. My daughter would cuddle the whole package. Once, when I went to use some of Cilla's head in a recipe, my daughter walked into the room and shrieked, "Don't KILL her!!!" I bought several Cillas, since they didn't live very long.

Maybe this kind of sympathy comes naturally to us and is part of the success of Cabbage Patch dolls.

Hmmm...

Well I am not even done replying, but I'm sleepy.

So goodnight people ~ sweet dreams.

posted November 03, 2012 02:13 AM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
Did you stepfather and his father cook any favorite food of their...muertos?

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Originally posted by Faith:
"parasitic" has such a negative connotation.

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Originally posted by Faith:
...like your Buddhist friends relying on others to feed them.

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The alms rounds, or begging for food, exists to remind monastics that they would not be able to devote their time to practicing meditation, without the support of the sangha; that their opportunity to end their own suffering is only reached upon the charity of others. It also involves the sangha directly in the practice of the monks/nuns and allows them the opportunity to have personal time with monastics, hearing the dharma. Alms rounds are an intentional practice in symbiosis. Without Sangha, monastics would have to spend meditation time toiling to support their selves, and without monastics, Sangha would not have access to learning Dharma from professional meditators.

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Originally posted by Faith:
I guess certain phenomena relating to death can be cheesy

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I think most of the time death involves some suffering. Does your thinking differ from that?

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Most of our ideas surrounding death are ridiculously primitive and fairly comical when one embraces the idea that energy is never destroyed, but just continues on in different forms. What we mourn and suffer for, is the loss of our dirt (to put as crudely as possible). In fact, entire rituals and religions are built upon the idea that you can keep your dirt in 10 easy steps! When someone dies, all the wonderful energies they contributed to our own path doesn't change. We can even recreate an energetic body for that person, out of the energies they left with us, and continue our experiences with them.

All we lose in death is a body and the idea that one associates a person with so many dynamic qualities while they are alive, but then considers them gone when their body expires, is silly IMO. I see the suffering of death in the light of --> This .

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Originally posted by Faith:
What sign dances best...Leo? (Patrick Swayze OMG)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I think my 8H moon is similar, but it's a gentler, subtler, quieter process. People often start talking about tragedies and hardship with me, soon after we meet. I don't know why, the conversation naturally just seems to flow in that direction. Like I met a woman whose child was stillborn, and we ended up talking about that for two hours. She was a stranger to me but we both put life on hold to have this conversation. But I don't mean to claim special ability, it could be as simple as empathy and just saying, "Mm hmm" a lot.

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Yep, exactly like that. The only difference is, with the Moon those things unfold when the setting becomes comfortable and personal. With the Sun, we expect the world to be that open and deep for us naturally. I don't know if your son is this way, but when I was younger, betrayal or being mislead were very difficult for me to stomach. The whole idea that I was intentionally withheld the whole story made me feel stupid, duped. It was almost an unforgivable offense, because I am so intensely devoted to the people I love (Mars/Venus). The older I got, the less interested in people's superficial nature, I became. That could have a lot to do with other parts of my chart, but superficial interaction feels pointless to me. It's like "We both know what's going on inside you, so let's just not pretend".

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Originally posted by Faith:
I'm wondering what you ate at the monastery?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
These ways of looking at food are so radically different from our convenience culture, it's like different species are co-existing based on their level of awareness with consumption.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Yes, and you are kind to remind me of kissing baby cheeks, because my kids are so big now, and I miss that!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
My task which I am trying to achieve is, by the power of the written word, to make you hear, to make you feel — it is, before all, to make you see. That — and no more, and it is everything. If I succeed, you shall find there according to your deserts: encouragement, consolation, fear, charm — all you demand; and, perhaps, also that glimpse of truth for which you have forgotten to ask.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I bought several Cillas, since they didn't live very long.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Maybe this kind of sympathy comes naturally to us and is part of the success of Cabbage Patch dolls.

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posted November 03, 2012 04:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I see the suffering of death in the light of --> This .

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That was so beautiful!!!!

posted November 04, 2012 12:42 AM            

How are things?

We got snow today, first "big" snow of the season, about 1/8" accumulating on our outside stairs and deck. It was blowing sideways for a while...a great day for hiking, and most of my family is indeed wiped out from too much trekking through the countryside. 'Good to be reminded of how "rough" weather can also be satisfying and happy, especially considering the wreckage caused by recent storms.

A little more on tarot meanings...

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
In many cases, just the simple force of change/transformation/death is a big challenge of Scorpio.

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Just wondering how you both experience that with your Scorpio placements...as for me, I never realized how much of a control freak I was (hitting and missing my Scorpio NN erratically) until I started reading Eckhart Tolle a few years ago, and exercising mindlessness periodically. Then I could think, "Oh, I used to get obsessed about stuff like that" and not get obsessed. Interestingly, Tolle has Scorpio SN, 3 degrees from my NN. Maybe that's why he got through to me.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
One of Sag's main challenges in life is balancing all the huge forces in their personality, into a focused and functional result.

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Most of the Sags I've known in real life come off as quite mellow. You only see that hugeness once in a while, like a big belly laugh that goes on a little too long, or some other extremes. But I'm glad you said this, I don't think it would have occurred to me to put "huge" and "Sag" together, because the ones I've known are mostly sophisticated...evolved, I guess. Sags do kind of sizzle, though, don't they?

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I'm not sure the dead really mind though, it's the thought that counts.

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LOL!

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Part of the reason this happens is because Buddhism also has a "trinity" symbol like Christianity. Buddhists "take refuge in" (or make a choice to seek support in) The Buddha, The Dharma, and The Sangha.

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'Never heard of that before, but I like it. Thank you for taking the time to explain it all. My Christian friends speak of adversity in favorable terms, too, because it forces them to call on God for help...and this sounds similar. I like when different religions/philosophies share common ground, it suggests universality which in turn gives me hope for the possibility of peace some day.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
The alms rounds, or begging for food, exists to remind monastics that they would not be able to devote their time to practicing meditation, without the support of the sangha; that their opportunity to end their own suffering is only reached upon the charity of others.

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I'm just confused about why anyone would choose to support the monks instead of being one, if the monks are the ones who have the opportunity to end their own suffering, by doing something physically easy-looking (meditating) instead of the sometimes back-breaking work of putting food on the table. Seems monarchical instead of monastical (and I'm happy those words are so similar, adding weight to my point, I would assume. )

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Being a fellow Sag, I identified with how hard that must have been for her....Death is not always accompanied with suffering though, and the ideas behind the suffering of those who witness death is based on our confusion with what happens to a person after they die.

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I'm sorry about your grandmother's passing.

What's been hardest for me is watching my loved ones in pain, and not being able to get them out of pain. That's been more difficult than my own physical suffering (as in childbirth.) I don't know what empathy would feel like, when you are with a person in physical or emotional agony, if that feeling isn't pain itself.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
When someone dies, all the wonderful energies they contributed to our own path doesn't change. We can even recreate an energetic body for that person, out of the energies they left with us, and continue our experiences with them.

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Please talk to me more about that? How do you do it, what do you mean?

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
All we lose in death is a body and the idea that one associates a person with so many dynamic qualities while they are alive, but then considers them gone when their body expires, is silly IMO.

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Don't you ever miss anybody though? Like if your best friend died, you would MISS her wouldn't you? Or would you really be content with the energetic body in lieu of the physical? What I'm getting at is, is joy more real than pain, in your view...and is that the Buddhist view as well?

Ugh, sorry for all the questions, as usual. Just can't seem to help myself, I'm like a frisky puppy when interesting topics come up.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Yep, exactly like that. The only difference is, with the Moon those things unfold when the setting becomes comfortable and personal. With the Sun, we expect the world to be that open and deep for us naturally.

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That sounds great. Just to compare notes...I guess on some level, I feel like I know the basic gist of everything there is to know, when I'm talking to people. Mainly by reading their facial expressions: I see where the shyness goes, take note of sensitivity around various issues, excitement around others, get insinuations of anguish when they think they've got it hidden. So they might be saying a bunch of words that don't necessarily bear much resemblance to how I am understanding them in that moment. And sometimes they don't say much, and neither do I, but my experience with them was rich because of the metamessages and undercurrent and my own imagination.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I don't know if your son is this way, but when I was younger, betrayal or being mislead were very difficult for me to stomach. The whole idea that I was intentionally withheld the whole story made me feel stupid, duped.

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I'm like that, too. So my son has a mother who is either always straight with him or says things like, "I'll tell you my opinion when you're older" or I might even say, "Well, sorry, but I'm keeping my opinion to myself on that. You can have opinions that you just keep to yourself, too, okay?" Which exasperates the kids, but it keeps things honest and organized.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
It was almost an unforgivable offense, because I am so intensely devoted to the people I love (Mars/Venus).

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Your Mars being loyal and your Venus being deep...I guess that's what you meant?

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
The older I got, the less interested in people's superficial nature, I became. That could have a lot to do with other parts of my chart, but superficial interaction feels pointless to me. It's like "We both know what's going on inside you, so let's just not pretend".

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I'm stumped here, wondering how that manifests with, say, people you don't have the best mental rapport with. My Saturn-Mercury opposition has made me wary of all situations where it seems pivotal to the health of a relationship to articulate my inner self. I'm not always good at it.

I'll just say that for me, once I really know what's going on inside someone, they are probably my friend, and with my friends, nothing is what I'd call superficial. We could be talking about Sponge Bob, and it's meaningful, it's holy. Only rarely does someone freeze up on me without explaining, and that's my signal that something is bothering them. So I tread carefully until they decide to tell me, or until they resolve whatever it is. Sometimes they just get all weird and go back to normal without ever explaining, and that's good, too. If I ever play a role in helping people past their superficial hang-ups, it's a passive, intuitive process. If they are very fake/demented, I just don't spend much time with them.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I can't stand lasagna (yes, I know, I have no soul) and he made a vegan lasagna that was astounding!

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YUM! I don't like lasagna too much, either, or anything made with white flour, but that sounds really good. I love coconut milk...I love coconut everything, in fact! My German friend and I have our own religion based around coconuts, but...er, well, I'll just let it rest at that.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
You are making me want to pop up next Sunday for the food LOL.

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=) Tell us if you do!

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
It's funny because there is a debate about Virgo being a cold/barren sign vs Virgo being a caring serving sign, and Ceres brings both of those aspects together.

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Thanks, that was interesting to read. Virgo has never been a cold sign to me. I just assume that whoever is arguing along those lines simply doesn't know Virgo, or does not feel "nourished" by Virgo's attention to detail the way that a Capricorn does. To me, Virgo energy is warm, and it seems almost as quiet and mysterious as Pisces, but that doesn't translate to nothingness/fallowness at all.

Even cold cereal has been cooked first, at one time. =)

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Go kiss your babies =)

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LOL, I call them that even though they aren't anymore: "C'mere babies!!!"

My oldest is the only one who hates that. (Go figure.)

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
You should plant a Cilla, so she can live with your family and you won't have to replace her. =)

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Good idea! We did grow wheatgrass for a few months, and each child got to water their own little pot of it, and vegetable affections ran high. I guess they were sad when we hauled out the sinister-looking juicer, but that's life.

Always nice talking with you.

posted November 05, 2012 08:23 PM            

It's nice to hear snow has made it to your area. It snowed here in San Diego once when I was about 12 years old, but it lasted about 10 min and was the consistency of a slushy. Still we all ran out of our classrooms in complete awe. Aside from that I have only seen snow fall from the sky once. While on that road trip which involved timelessness in NM, my friend and I were driving through Utah in the rain. Suddenly the rain stopped making the windshield wet... both my friend and I looked at each other completely dumbfounded. We thought we were being abducted by aliens or something, because there was no rational reason for why the rain was acting so weird. Finally it dawned on us that we were witnessing snow LOL. I wanted to pull over and play in it, but she was afraid we would get mugged, raped, and killed in the middle of the Utah wilderness, so she made me wait until we could stop at the next gas station. Unfortunately we drove out of the snow before we arrived at the next stop. =C It was cool being cave-folk for a moment though, completely awestruck by something people consider a regular part of life.

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Originally posted by Faith:
Just wondering how you both experience that with your Scorpio placements

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I think having Venus in Scorpio square Saturn in Virgo, as well as Uranus in Scorpio 7th House, I have been very demanding in unspoken ways with those I love. I never say it openly, but along with a strong energy of interest and devotion is Mars in Leo, and I think it plays with my Scorpio planets in a way which says, "Treat me right or I am gone, you need to be worthy of keeping me around". I learned from all those who raised me that you are supposed to love others to your own detriment and no matter how badly they treat you, enduring it shows them that you love them. I am one of the only descendants of my family to be completely turned off by that idea. I will love a person even to my own detriment, but there is only so much I will endure before I ask my self, "how are they proving they love me by acting this way?".

The relationship I was in where we traveled all over the US, ended with me realizing he was pushing my limits, me stashing money away without his knowledge, and leaving. It is a very definite line which can be crossed with me and I think people without Leo influences have a hard time comprehending the aspect of that habit which feels like self-respect. When all is said and done, it is still a control mechanism. It is an unspoken way for me to tell people to watch their step around me...not very gentle lol.

I feel in the above examples, there is a theme of not letting things get out of my comfort zone and that, to me translates into a fear of change.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
You only see that hugeness once in a while, like a big belly laugh that goes on a little too long, or some other extremes. But I'm glad you said this, I don't think it would have occurred to me to put "huge" and "Sag" together, because the ones I've known are mostly sophisticated...evolved, I guess. Sags do kind of sizzle, though, don't they?

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Sadly she was one of the loudest most obnoxious New-Ageophiles I have met to this day. She taught me a lot about what I was refusing to see in my self, but it was a struggle for me, because the lesson relied on my seeing my self in her. Sag is a very huge and imposing sign, which is part of the reason people either love or hate us. It is actually the refined Sag which I discovered was the more surprising to exist. Just like Pisces is called to swim up stream and face the difficulties of life, it is the escapist and destructive Pisces which is the "easier" Pisces to be, the same goes for Sagittarius and our struggle to just follow our nature wherever it wants us to roam, or to wrangle in that energy an direct it towards something beneficial. This isn't to say that Sag then automatically stops being obnoxious though, we must remain aware at all times, otherwise our autopilot drives us over everyone's front lawn. Every word and action goes through a check (is that okay to say, how will the other person hear this, should I change my tone, will laughing at the end convey the lightheartedness of my intentions, what amount of offense is negligible in this interaction and what amount is important to heed, is this really something important to share in the first place?), LOL fun times.

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Originally posted by Faith:
I'm just confused about why anyone would choose to support the monks instead of being one, if the monks are the ones who have the opportunity to end their own suffering, by doing something physically easy-looking (meditating) instead of the sometimes back-breaking work of putting food on the table. Seems monarchical instead of monastical (and I'm happy those words are so similar, adding weight to my point, I would assume. )

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Each tradition is a bit different, but essentially a monastic wakes up, meditates with the monastic sangha, walks the streets with their bowl collecting alms, returns to the monastery to eat, goes off into the forest to meditate alone, returns several hours later for chanting with the sangha, and then goes to bed. That is a monastic's every day life. They must shave their heads, wear no jewelery, make up, perfumes, or oils. They are encouraged very little identity of their own and in a very real sense, they are not a "person", but a tool of the sangha.

People don't want to give up their lives to meditate constantly, own two outfits and a bowl, eat only what other people give them and in some traditions, eat only once a day. People want to fall in love, get married, and have kids, a house, a car, the internet, and go to the movies on the week ends. When a monastic falls in love, they meditate on it as an attachment and seek to comprehend the attachment in a way which releases them from their desire to care for one person over all beings. If they want to pursue their attachment to the person, they must disrobe. Ultimately a monastic willingly gives up all the comforts and attachments of life to seek the end of suffering for not only their self, but for all beings. Much of the drive to overcome attachments is based on compassion for others. Monastics are able to overcome their selfish desires, because every moment they make progress is a moment the world moves one step toward the end of suffering.

Much of what we consider normal comforts would throw huge speed bumps in the practice of a monastic. What monastics do is study the dharma and meditate to deepen their understanding. They then return to the sangha and teach the dharma from a place of experience. It is possible to be a layperson and reach enlightenment, but without being able to surround one's self with people who are determined to devote their life to the study and understanding of the dharma, the lay-practitioner would find the path very difficult. This way, when a lay-practitioner asks a monk, "when I meditate, my mind wanders off into the past, into sexual images, or into planning for my day. I can't seem to get past it" the monastic, having studied the dharma and experienced the same problems which the lay-practitioner is facing, can assist in advise which bypasses them having to spend years figuring the problem out on their own.

I guess it comes down to having regularly meditated. It is simple to meditate if one's idea of meditation is to sit on a pillow and allow one's mind to wander off into fantastical places. Buddhist meditation is actually contrary to that concept and thus can become difficult. In Buddhist meditation, the focus is holding one's awareness in the body, in the present moment. No wandering off, just sitting and watching.

Actually hehe, try it. Sit, close your eyes and see how long you can remain aware of the present, without getting caught in mental dialogue, pictures, plans, ideas. It's especially hard when one is just starting out. Give it a shot, and when you are done think that you could go to a monastery right now, describe your experience to a monk or nun, and they would be able to help you refine your technique in a way which will make it easier to stay in your body and in the present moment.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I don't know what empathy would feel like, when you are with a person in physical or emotional agony, if that feeling isn't pain itself.

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Originally posted by Faith:
Please talk to me more about that? How do you do it, what do you mean?

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We seem to feel that just because someone has a physical body and can punch us in the head, that it is rude to shout over a person while they are talking, "no you hate me, you hate me, you hate me". That is essentially what first happens when we begin talking to passed people, because they can no longer punch us in the head. Where a spirit (having seen the fullness of their life) wishes to apologize or forgive. We (being confined by our own guilt or anger) refuse to see it. Instead we conjure them with attitudes of anger, or disapproval, stuff them in angry boxes and make them say things they don't mean.

One could say, but that's just imaginary. My physical interaction with that person was deeper than that. The truth is, it's all imaginary, including the value we append to the physical vs the creative realms. The key is not learning how to imagine passed people, it is learning how to keep one's self in check long enough to actually believe they are as real as they were when they were driving around a body.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Don't you ever miss anybody though? Like if your best friend died, you would MISS her wouldn't you? Or would you really be content with the energetic body in lieu of the physical? What I'm getting at is, is joy more real than pain, in your view...and is that the Buddhist view as well?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Mainly by reading their facial expressions: I see where the shyness goes, take note of sensitivity around various issues, excitement around others, get insinuations of anguish when they think they've got it hidden. So they might be saying a bunch of words that don't necessarily bear much resemblance to how I am understanding them in that moment.

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Scorpio is opposite Taurus, so it is quite natural that they are able to reed the hidden in the apparent (or manifest their watery powers through sensual means).

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
So my son has a mother who is either always straight with him or says things like, "I'll tell you my opinion when you're older" or I might even say, "Well, sorry, but I'm keeping my opinion to myself on that. You can have opinions that you just keep to yourself, too, okay?" Which exasperates the kids, but it keeps things honest and organized.

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Maybe in my next life I'll come back as one of your kids... perhaps in the universe when you became a witch instead of a Christian lol =)

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Your Mars being loyal and your Venus being deep...I guess that's what you meant?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I'm stumped here, wondering how that manifests with, say, people you don't have the best mental rapport with.

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I have plenty of superficial interactions with people, I just tend not to feed or invest in those interactions after a while. The person becomes an acquaintance I can exchange pleasantries with and they know if they want to discuss deeper things they can come to me. Contrary to your method, if I know a person well enough, I identify problems and immediately discuss bringing them out in the open. I don't press if the person doesn't want to talk about it, but if they can't seem to put the issue aside it scratches at me. It flavors our entire interaction. I think my Pluto gives off an amplified feeling of that flavor and it becomes apparent we need to discuss the issue.

If the person really doesn't want to discuss it, they tend to be able to put the matter aside. Otherwise its wine, movie, and ice-cream night with lots of discussing the problem.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
My German friend and I have our own religion based around coconuts, but...er, well, I'll just let it rest at that.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Even cold cereal has been cooked first, at one time. =)

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Vell, zat iss zat!

posted November 07, 2012 12:42 PM            

Nice to see you again! How's life? My life is more kaleidoscopic than usual lately, but each of the colorful bits would take long to explain, without being interesting enough to warrant the verbosity. So I'll say things are averaging out to "manageable" here.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
We thought we were being abducted by aliens or something, because there was no rational reason for why the rain was acting so weird. Finally it dawned on us that we were witnessing snow LOL.

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LOL! That's hilarious. I forget that some people don't get to play in snow. One of my brothers met his wife in college in Buffalo, NY, then they moved to Georgia. It's like, every time I talk to them in the winter, they are yearning for snow, reminiscing about snow...the whole big snow romance. "What's everyone doing today?" they ask on the phone. "Ploughing snow, sliding on ice and breaking our elbows, sitting inside since the blizzard closed everything down..." And they are like, "Oh I MISS that!!!" heheheh

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Astrology is also a great topic of conversation that people find interesting. Just knowing about the topic helped me stay in control of conversations with others.

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I've noticed a lot of people do this...steer conversations towards their area of interest and keep it there. Most of us outgrow the tendency; adults who don't can be a real pain in the butt. If I ever get fiesty and talk too much about astrology, my intention is not to control, teach, or impose on others, it's just that I'm rigged to be honest, and if I'm feeling compulsive about an issue, I'm not good at pretending otherwise. "Why is everyone having all these weird dreams lately, it's like something's in the air...." my friend says. "Oh well sorry I just mentioned a planet ten seconds ago but I HAVE to tell you that omg omg omg Neptune just entered Pisces and it's hog wild!!!"

Maybe this is my Sag energy pouring out through my Leo ASC. It's too big to contain sometimes (especially with Jupiter Aries.)

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Convincing people to beg to be shoved into boxes was a very safe and controlled way to establish social boundaries with others without being subject to the unpredictable aspects of that person's personality.

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!!!! Too funny !!!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
The relationship I was in where we traveled all over the US, ended with me realizing he was pushing my limits, me stashing money away without his knowledge, and leaving.

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I'm sorry I don't remember this. Were we talking about it on the "Would you date yourself" thread, long ago? Anyway, I think it's good that you don't stick around in relationships that don't serve your needs. More people ought to be like that. I would think it's difficult for you (and I mean you specifically) to gauge how much your transformative effect on others will change them to the point where they aren't acting so loveless....maybe it's like you have to assess their learning curve and make hard decisions based on something that you know is just an approximation?

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I feel in the above examples, there is a theme of not letting things get out of my comfort zone and that, to me translates into a fear of change.

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So...is this too blunt to ask...if so, I apologize. Do you think Scorpio Venus is part of the reason you aren't in a romantic relationship now? (Or, if you are, your Scorpio influences have kept it hidden from us so far?) Like, relationships are always uncomfortable sometimes, and you aren't comfortable with that? Sorry if that's too nosey, I plead Scorpio NN!

I haven't done the research on Scorpio Uranus that I meant to do, so I can think of how to apply your above statement to Uranus. I'll go putz around the internet.... real-time putzing...

Well here's something to chew on: "Relationships for those with Uranus in Scorpio may be volatile or uncontrollable. A simple friendship may suddenly become passionate, without either party knowing why. It may also go the other way; a passionate affair may suddenly cool." http://www.alwaysastrology.com/uranus-in-scorpio.html

Maybe we Scorpio Uranus folk don't feel like binding ourselves to any kind of emotional expectations because it's not in our (deep) nature to pretend to have a consistency that simply isn't there? Something like that. So I can understand wanting to control relationships, maybe even by not participating in them (being a loner, as I kind of am) or just ending relationships suddenly. Oddly, I've done that to people in the past, and they've done it to me, and it seems this was mostly done between Scorpio Uranus people, on both sides. I suddenly fell out of love with one of my high school boyfriends because of one thing he said that seemed to shatter my rose-colored glasses all at once, but I kept on with the motions out of loyalty even though I was permanently disinterested in him after that one turn-off. And it was a SUBTLE turn-off, just one dorky mistake!

My emotions go all over the place, it's annoying even to me, but I thought that was my "inventive" eating style and badly-placed mutable t-square to blame. Along with outright immaturity. But I've gotten comfortable in my social life now that I have learned to trust a few people to be there for me, year after year. We've weathered our Uranian storms and I think we will keep afloat. Who knows, even you and I might still be talking a few years down the line! (Maybe even here, if you get an internet connection at your little hut in Hawaii. Depends on how simplified you get and how many Xiiro threads Randall will tolerate.)

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I think you are fortunate to know these kinds of Sagittatians, because they are the less common type of Sag who has learned to ride their horse.

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Thank you, and I think you are among them, actually.

Well my Sag son is a Rabbit, and that calms him down, and his has a Cap moon, Taurus ASC. He has Aquarius SN which has made him even smarter than his other placements suggest, and I have pictures of him at every age, staring intently at a book. I didn't teach him to read early because I knew he'd be a bookworm and it would wreck his eyes. But once in a while he goes nuts, rolls on the floor laughing (literally) and stuff like that.

The other Sags have "sizzled." They are calm but maybe they are tapping their fingers on something or sounding extra happy for non-obvious reasons. My Scorpio brother dated a Sag for a long time when I was young, she was like a sister to me, and my whole family just adored her. They had a horrible break-up. Many years later they reconnected and are now best friends again. She comes to him for marriage advice LOL. Anyway, last time I saw her was when my Dad was dying. She came into the hospital room and honestly, it was like someone just turned the lights on. Everyone totally lit up, "OMG It's KAREN again!!!" because fo course we missed her, but on top of that, she really breathed life into the place with that lively energy that she always had. I always think of her with a big smile. She does look sophisticated, though, and acts normal. It's those giant bursts of laughter that give her away as a Sag, I think. One time when I was young, she got a fit of giggles at a restaurant so bad, she stayed in the restroom half the time trying to compose herself. I mean if that's not adorable, I don't know what is. (She was probably high, but still.)

I have more Sag stories but those are the two character sketches I wanted to share, because they are the Sags I've known longest and been closest with.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
This woman called her self Aumakua Ra

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hehehehehhehehehe

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
This isn't to say that Sag then automatically stops being obnoxious though, we must remain aware at all times, otherwise our autopilot drives us over everyone's front lawn.

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'Love the imagery. =)

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
People don't want to give up their lives to meditate constantly, own two outfits and a bowl, eat only what other people give them and in some traditions, eat only once a day. People want to fall in love, get married, and have kids, a house, a car, the internet, and go to the movies on the week ends.

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It says a lot about me, I think, that I had to have this explained to me. I naively think others are just like me, and I have always been at least partly ascetic. So it wasn't immediately clear to me why people would not want to just go be monks. It says a lot about you that you patiently explained this to me without being condescending, and I want you to know I really appreciate that. Heartfelt thanks.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Give it a shot, and when you are done think that you could go to a monastery right now, describe your experience to a monk or nun, and they would be able to help you refine your technique in a way which will make it easier to stay in your body and in the present moment.

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I've tried meditating before, done it for a few minutes at a time, but have always been a little scared of making a habit out of it for fear it won't live up to my expectations. Could I join a monastery? I'm not the best person to know...because of the aforementioned naivete, combined with a real ascetic streak. I know I lean towards minimalism and always, always have. On the other hand, I haven't studied Buddhism enough to know if this is a good match for me. Sometimes everything you describe about Buddhism seems so beautifully rational and normal; at other times, it's very alien, almost in a literal sense, like I would imagine aliens having shaved heads and orange robes with no obvious gender distinctions (as if the aliens are asexual or like seahorses.)

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
It is especially true in your case because your Moon is so connected to people's emotions. I think the recognition of pain as an inevitability can give way to an understanding that pain is merely an alarm system. When one discovers they are in a building with a blasting fire alarm, it can effect us strongly. Once we accept the inevitability of the alarm however, we can become more focused on finding the fire and doing what we can to put it out.

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=) Well said. Thank you for understanding my moon, too. Your comments reminded me of how I want to be like one of my heroes, Rachel Remen, who is a doctor running a popular counselling retreat for cancer patients (Commonweal), and author of a few bestsellers. (Her book My Grandfather's Blessings is one of the jewels of my library, I've read it about four times.) I don't want to be a doctor or run a retreat, not particularly right now, but she is, in my opinion, a perfectly graceful mix of both empathy and optimism.

And it's good for me to think of that today since my friend's granddaughter is in the hospital with a MRSA infection, and I can get literally sick with worry about that if I'm not careful. I know...you already told me...worrying is counterproductive...so instead I am singing love songs to this baby and praying to the God of All Coconuts that she and her family will be well, and telling my friend Xiiro here, who is modest about his medical skills and might be able to help fix the situation, who knows? =) No pressure at all.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Even if suffering results in death, the only thing we have lost is the building, not the company or the product.

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But I'm not sure I can see how there is such a clear separation between body and spirit. I feel like I am my body. Plus, I like being around bodies and if I love someone, I want their body there. I want, I want. Greedy me, I can think of nothing better in life than having one of my kids plunked on my lap, hugging me, and kissing their cheeks. I know the Buddhists know it gets better than that, but it's where I am now.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
That is essentially what first happens when we begin talking to passed people

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So you DO talk to passed people? I'm trying to see if there's a difference between what you do and what I do. I feel engulfed in my father's hug all the time. And still feel sad for my mother, like she is at a distance recovering. Only once in a while do I feel like I am glimpsing something larger about her spirit...truth is, I didn't know her too well, because I was so young when she left. So it's harder to sense who she is.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
One could say, but that's just imaginary. My physical interaction with that person was deeper than that. The truth is, it's all imaginary, including the value we append to the physical vs the creative realms.

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Is it? Isn't there like an energetic force field between two people that exists objectively and both of them feel?

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I never dropped acid at Disneyland with her bile, stomach acids, blood, spindle cells, or saliva. None of those things are the parts of my friend I interact with.

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LOL! But here I think we just disagree. I'm thinking, "Oh yes you sure did drop acid with her saliva!" I guess it's possible that my thinking differs from the Buddhist view only because I never experienced the essence of Buddhism, which is not in the teaching but the experience, and experience is not transferable. You can only talk to me about it, for now. But I think it's likely I will learn to meditate and maybe even become more Buddhist someday and then we may have common experiences to refer to.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Contrary to your method, if I know a person well enough, I identify problems and immediately discuss bringing them out in the open.

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Please don't take this the wrong way, but to me, that is such a guy thing to say.

*Edit: What I meant was, I think it's typical for men to want to identify and solve problems, whereas women tend to encourage each other by commiserating and trading stories.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I don't press if the person doesn't want to talk about it, but if they can't seem to put the issue aside it scratches at me. It flavors our entire interaction. I think my Pluto gives off an amplified feeling of that flavor and it becomes apparent we need to discuss the issue.

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So is that how you feel with friends and loved ones or everyone? I ask because I would think that discussing things in depth has a bonding effect that you might not want to create, actually. Like my homeboy Throeau said, "Between whom there is hearty truth, there is love." Consequent to that, there may be ickiness...as Joy Division said, Love will tear us apart.

What I'm wondering about, in very Scorpion fashion, is if your tendency to pull the soul out of people results in recurrent romantic dramas in situations where the social context is ambiguous (kind of like your Taurus friend who wanted more from you and got mean when it wasn't forthcoming.) I'm not talking about you working at the home for disabled adults, chats with colleagues or what have you, but in situations that could theoretically give rise to overblown emotional reactions accompanying the catharsis you effect. If you don't think it's too invasive of me to ask, is that a recurrent problem, or does it not typically play out like that?

I'll answer a similar question myself, so I'm not just putting you on the spot: I find that when I talk to (straight) men too much they start paying more attention to me than I want, which can wreck everything if I don't maintain boundaries (because they don't always maintain them.) I'm sure this is common but especially with people whose communication style aims for healing.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
So you are just going to keep the secrets of Coconutism to your self. What if this was the whole reason for our meeting. Please guru share with me the secrets of the coconutty universe.

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ROTFL! Oh geez, it's a long story, just like the Bible is a long story. I would just like to give you a pamphlet about it so you can get started right away. The pamphlet is rife with coconut imagery, including palm trees and islands. It's gaudy as hell, but it's actually about going to coconut heaven. You can say anything you want in this religion, provided that it involves coconuts and works to the greater good of humanity or yourself in particular. Okay?

What you might hear in a Coconut Grove Church (some pronounce it "cuckoo-nut" church, that's fine, too):

- "I am drinking coconut milk in the hopes that you find the perfect dress to wear to the rehearsal dinner."

- "I have been decorating coconuts with glitter and jewels, hoping your guinea pig recovers from her bladder infection."

- "I haven't got a bit of work done today because I've been building a pyramid out of coconuts for you, because I want everything to work out with you friend who's treating you like a b*tch!"

- "A giant coconut meteor landed in my backyard, I think it's a sign!!!!"

- "Just squeeze your bottle of coconut shampoo at him so little jets of air hit him smack dab in the face. That'll fix it."

You may be destined to be The Second Coming of Coconuts since you are headed to Hawaii and have now been initiated by Sacred Rite into the Church and have eaten gelato-style fresh coconut when no other mere human I know has done that. Synchronicity like crazy!

Clearly I am putting my eccentricity on full display here, and my friends' (did I mean she's a Cap with Aquarius rising or did you guess that already?) But don't worry about keeping up the joke or being an actual church member. I (try to) respect all religions, coconut, non-coconut, even anti-coconut, as long as we can agree to disagree, that's fine.

Have a great day!
OOOOOOOOOOOO

(Underlined with coconuts to increase likelihood of manifestation.)

posted November 08, 2012 09:26 PM            

kaleidoscopic life is good I feel, it means there is movement. There is something very surface about interaction on this level. It's very easy to found myself avoiding saying "I'm good" because it is the socially acceptable and truncated version of, "I'm a little up and a little down, but generally just experiencing life, so I guess everything is good". Having a ruling planet in Cancer, my mood changes like songs on a randomized playlist and days follow suit.

I hope your manageable mesh of good and bad is favoring the good. =)

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Originally posted by Faith:
It's like, every time I talk to them in the winter, they are yearning for snow, reminiscing about snow...the whole big snow romance.

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Originally posted by Faith:
I would think it's difficult for you (and I mean you specifically) to gauge how much your transformative effect on others will change them to the point where they aren't acting so loveless....maybe it's like you have to assess their learning curve and make hard decisions based on something that you know is just an approximation?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Do you think Scorpio Venus is part of the reason you aren't in a romantic relationship now? Like, relationships are always uncomfortable sometimes, and you aren't comfortable with that?

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The people I find most irresistible are often psychologically, emotionally, spiritually, or physically traumatized (perhaps it is connected to that whole "shamanic ecstasy is often found in great suffering"). We just have a lot in common. LOL I feel the issue extends far beyond Venus for me. Venus in Scorpio certainly doesn't make things easy though.

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Originally posted by Faith:
I haven't done the research on Scorpio Uranus that I meant to do, so I can think of how to apply your above statement to Uranus.

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Originally posted by Faith:
Maybe we Scorpio Uranus folk don't feel like binding ourselves to any kind of emotional expectations because it's not in our (deep) nature to pretend to have a consistency that simply isn't there?

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Originally posted by Faith:
I have more Sag stories but those are the two character sketches I wanted to share, because they are the Sags I've known longest and been closest with.

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Originally posted by Faith:
It says a lot about me, I think, that I had to have this explained to me. I naively think others are just like me, and I have always been at least partly ascetic.

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Perhaps one day in this life you will pursue monasticism, because you are inclined toward that direction.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Could I join a monastery? I'm not the best person to know...because of the aforementioned naivete, combined with a real ascetic streak. I know I lean towards minimalism and always, always have. On the other hand, I haven't studied Buddhism enough to know if this is a good match for me.

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I admit is was probably more difficult in a sense, because I was so new to all of it. In another sense though, being new was very helpful for me. It allowed me to study from the very beginning. I had no preconceived notions while exploring a new spiritual frontier. It's even okay that you have struggles and can identify a lot of them. The first step to resolving a problem is awareness that the issue exists. I have two things i would like to suggest if you are considering checking out and visiting a monastery. First, Buddhism is one of the oldest religions in the world, so it has "denominations" like Christianity. If you go someplace and don't like it, don't get discouraged. Buddhist practice can be as drastically different as Amish Christians and televangelists. The key is to keep looking until you find a sangha that fits with your interests.

Second, there are all types and Buddhism extends its arms to all of them. Prepare to meet a variety of people spanning from people you love to people you can't believe exist. Interacting with a sangha is a practice in observation and acceptance. If someone rubs you the wrong way, try not to take it personally or apply it to others. When it comes down to it, the sangha is often a group of people who have seen hard times and are working toward ending their suffering. When we are made to face our suffering it is not rare to act much less collected then we are used to. Fortunately a good sangha is also a place of understanding. One thing that was hard for me to face was being around people who didn't want help with their problems. I felt a bit out of sorts in a place full of people who are taking responsibility for their own struggles. Though my first reaction was to feel emotionally offended, it resulted in revealing my attachment to having others need me help them.

That's another thing, you may want to look for sanghas in your area before you visit a Buddhist temple or monastery. Sanghas are just groups of individual practitioners who get together for meditation, discussion, potluck, and dharma talks (similar to a bible study). They can be helpful for supporting your practice and just making friends with like minded people.

When it comes down to it, it's just something you will have to investigate on your own if you are so inclined. Everyone's practice is different and that is part of the beauty of Buddhism and Buddhists. The teachings are not rules, they are suggestions, or recommendations and people do not loot at each other with expectation, but with anticipation at how they can best support each other. You will never meet a "professional Buddhist" (excluding monastics). The Buddha suggested the best way to know what information is true and what is false is to test that information against the things we understand to be true already. He even suggested that his own words be scrutinized and only applied where they are applicable. The Buddhists who understand that are very welcoming to new people and will be very supportive as you learn to define your own practice.

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Originally posted by Faith:
and telling my friend Xiiro here, who is modest about his medical skills and might be able to help fix the situation, who knows?

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Originally posted by Faith:
But I'm not sure I can see how there is such a clear separation between body and spirit. I feel like I am my body. Plus, I like being around bodies and if I love someone, I want their body there. I want, I want. Greedy me, I can think of nothing better in life than having one of my kids plunked on my lap, hugging me, and kissing their cheeks. I know the Buddhists know it gets better than that, but it's where I am now.

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Originally posted by Faith:
Is it? Isn't there like an energetic force field between two people that exists objectively and both of them feel?

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Clouds, glaciers, and seas all look very different, but they are essentially composed of the same thing. On a quantum scale, when you focus down on the electron force which "separates" your body from the world around you, it's also mostly space. So yep, it really is all just space and perception. It is part of what that guy talks about in that Sacred Geometry video I linked several posts back.

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Originally posted by Faith:
I'm thinking, "Oh yes you sure did drop acid with her saliva!"

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The same goes for my friend. Her husk is of course part of her, because it is the vehicle for her experiences. When I partake in her friendship however, it is not her husk which is nourishing me. If she lost her legs and arms, her eyes, ears, tongue, her hair, her breasts and uterus, her spinal functions, and her skin she would still be my friend. There is no single part of my friend's body which contains my friend, therefor, when her body expires why then does she magically vanish? Without a tongue she is unable to talk to me, but she is still my friend. Without eyes she is unable to see me, but remains my friend. Without ears she couldn't hear me, without arms she couldn't hug me, without legs she couldn't walk with me, but she would still be my friend.

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Originally posted by Faith:
I ask because I would think that discussing things in depth has a bonding effect that you might not want to create, actually.

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Originally posted by Faith:
ROTFL! Oh geez, it's a long story, just like the Bible is a long story. I would just like to give you a pamphlet about it so you can get started right away.

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Originally posted by Faith:
Clearly I am putting my eccentricity on full display here

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Have a good one,

posted November 10, 2012 01:15 PM            

How are you? I've missed you even though you wrote me last. I kinda was hoping you would just write some more random stuf because I've been wondering what you're up to.

I'm writing now even though it's not an opportune time. Sam is next to me dipping snap peas into hummus and intermittently patting me affectionately on the shoulder with hummus-y fingers, making lumpy epaulettes on my sweater that I had planned to wear out to the farmer's market later. My Libra son is wielding a measuring stick in a way that suggests he has more than measuring on his mind. (Hankering for a sword fight, is he?) But my oldest is watching Huckleberry Finn because he just read the book (he loves fellow Sag Mark Twain) and for once, isn't going to fence. My daughter just took my 4 year-old down the basement for an impromptu dance party, wherein they play obnoxious music while my son pulls my daughter around on her roller blades until the inevitable time when she spins out of control and rolls over my son's barefoot toes.

I'm trying not to eat the snickerdoodle cookies that she made earlier, all by herself. I have been making headway with my diet, often eating just oranges and a handful of raw sunflower seeds for breakfast, and more raw food later, enjoying a little more vibrancy in my life because of it. I always forget how nice alkalinity feels until I'm in the alkaline moment. Then it's like remembering how real life is supposed to feel.

But despite my better diet, something seems tangled between me and the universe today...'Ever feel like life is just too darn weird, from every angle, to deal with? It's the kind of day where I just want to sit in a tree, bird watching. Or watching salamanders...because what ARE they doing, crawling all over the place? You never see them working or eating, just going for these long hikes. Suddenly I'm annoyed that I don't know why.

I'll confess that I feel a yearning for hallucinogenic therapy. To taste something different for once, and re-orient my course. Or, at the very least, a spell of alcoholism, as a vision quest. This is a Pisces path and a good temporary course of action, I feel. When I drink judiciously, my mind opens up and I find new hallways and rooms in the mansion of my mind. It would be especially good to do this when the Scorpio sun is transiting my north node and I want to go on an inner journey past the old cobwebs, into the abandoned rooms. So I will be picking up some wine after the farmer's market, too.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I just seems no amount of socks or gloves keeps the cold and wet away. LOL I think being born and raised in an area of relatively unexciting climatic activity has made me a delicate flower. =)

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I don't like cold weather, I would rather be a delicate flower, too! The one thing I do like is being bundled up against the cold so that I'm completely warm except for my face. This has led to my love of wool, and Alpaca wool especially. I suppose as a vegan you might find this rather brutal, but I don't know if it bothers the animals too much. Wool blankets are especially neat because I can wrap them around me and wander around outside pretending I'm an Indian. And I love sheep and forego mutton and lamb at every opportunity, so that's good.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Scorpio tends to embrace the discomfort if the pay out is good and Venus can deepen that appreciation.

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Is it accurate to say that Scorpio always wants the TRUTH, good and bad, the whole truth? So you can embrace discomfort if it's just part of the relationship's true, deep, real nature?

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
The people I find most irresistible are often psychologically, emotionally, spiritually, or physically traumatized (perhaps it is connected to that whole "shamanic ecstasy is often found in great suffering").

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Strange, since I see you as the Golden Boy, poster child for balance.

But as for your comment, I'm similar, look no further than my caveman husband.

The key thing is, it's got to be a hidden kind of pain for me, not something obvious like they are drinking all day and crying all night. I guess it's a challenge to figure out if I have what it takes to win their trust enough so that people will confide in me. Now that I'm married, things don't play out like this, but if I get attracted to random people here or there, part of the attraction is to their dark mysteries.

I once dated a quiet guy who went to Yale, he was very reserved and seemed deliciously full of secret torment. But then he turned out to be whiney and a little over-proud of his scars. So that's how I didn't marry the nuclear physicist. (Joking, yes, that he would have wanted to marry my crazy self, either.)

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Because Uranus is in my 7th, the transience of Uranus manifests a lot in my relationships.

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Makes sense. I have Aquarius in the 7H so that's something that affects me as well.

All in all, let me just say that today especially, I don't understand relationships, they are just so weird (!) if you think about it. "Let's hang out together for a long time and make a promise that we will." Why? All these rules and morals and expectations. I wonder what romantic love is all about in a Buddhist context...ultimately, do relationships with people tend to impinge on the ability of a person to forge a monogamous relationship with pure life itself....or something?

Ever read James Hilton's book Lost Horizon, by chance? About Shangri-La. To me, that's a likeable utopia. People just wander around loving whoever they feel like loving. You couldn't just throw your average American into that context and expect them not to go berserk with jealousy, there are centuries of conditioning to be overcome. But it's nice to think that humanity is capable of doing things differently, taking it easy, letting spontaneous affections run their natural course.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
That omnipresent vibe that you talk about is a character trait of Sag and it can influence people both positively and negatively.

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Oh yes, when I was younger and more saturnine, there were some Sags who exasperated me because I couldn't figure out how, if they were as smart as they seemed to be, they could also be so damn lighthearted. It seemed to invalidate my own brand of wisdom which was tied to realities about darkness and duty. It's been gratifying for me to experience that reverse ageing of Capricorn, to realize that NO, Saturn doesn't always win. So I can appreciate Sags much more now. Good thing, since I live with one!

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Good news! There is no membership (at least there isn't in any of the monasteries I have been to), you just come and go as it suits you.

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That IS good news! I just have to find a monastery and figure out the steps to getting there.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
When I went to live in the monastery I had 0 knowledge about Buddhism. In fact I had avoided eastern philosophy altogether because I was busy with so many other topics.

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Wow, that's a shock, I assumed you had known the whole kit & caboodle before joining.

I've avoided Eastern philosophy to a certain extent, on purpose. I don't like doing things like that by halves, so when my friends were saying, years ago, "C'mon, let's sign up for a yoga class," I was like, "Are you kidding me? I'd feel like a fake. I have no idea why I'd even want to do yoga." I've just been inching my way in that direction over time because I discovered how much I like Ayurvedic medicine, then Indian food, then Indian movies and culture. Finally I think I might be able to do some yoga without feeling this ridiculous, nagging sense that I am just being trendy, playing the New Age game because that's the nature of conformity.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
The key is to keep looking until you find a sangha that fits with your interests.

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Ok thanks, I will keep that in mind. Sure would be nice.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Second, there are all types and Buddhism extends its arms to all of them.

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I'm adaptable and love variety in people, so this sounds like a bonus, actually.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Sanghas are just groups of individual practitioners who get together for meditation, discussion, potluck, and dharma talks (similar to a bible study). They can be helpful for supporting your practice and just making friends with like minded people.

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Fun!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I'm afraid the best I can offer is to hang a coconut on the north-western corner of my forest, in the hopes of a swift recovery.

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Undoubtedly Lord Coconut was pleased with this offering, the baby was released from the hospital and is home feeling well!! Thank you for helping out. =)

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
So yep, it really is all just space and perception. It is part of what that guy talks about in that Sacred Geometry video I linked several posts back.

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I haven't forgotten the videos, I was watching the Bigfoot one last night. I have to say, I've lost some confidence in Mr. Pye after he seemed to treat a number of facts with disparate levels of believability as if they were all uniformly believable. But I want to see what he says about aliens, so I'm pressing on, and then I'll finish Sacred Geometry.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
When was the last time you thought about your sister's mucous? Saying you are sisters with her mucous is just like saying you are sisters with her bra. They are both present while you share an experience, but they are ancillary, they do not apply to the "sisterness" of her.

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It's like this. My sister's mucous might have DNA in it, and that's what makes her my sister. Without bodies and biology, are we even sisters? What makes us sisters but memory of a once-existing biological fact then? How long does energy carry the signature of the biology it once inhabited/shaped?

Also my sister's mucous might say a lot about her health, which is extremely run-down. She is schizophrenic/bi-polar, a disease that might be managed by medicine, IF someone could get her take it. If she took it, I might be able to talk to her and have a relationship with her. But because of her non-medicated biology right now, it's impossible for me. We may be sisters but act like strangers; I haven't talked to her in years.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
It seems you are arguing the inclusive perspective, that all parts matter.

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Yes sir.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
If she lost her legs and arms, her eyes, ears, tongue, her hair, her breasts and uterus, her spinal functions, and her skin she would still be my friend.

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Maybe for you, because you are loyal, she would still be your friend regardless of her behavior. But sometimes when people lose their body parts like that they become bitter and difficult to be around. Their personality changes. Then the nature of the friendliness between the two of you, the substance of the connection, changes into something different.

I was watching a video about 80-10-10 the other day, and the girl said that she is a completely new person now that she's been on this diet for many years. Totally new person. What's she mean by that? Is her soul modified? Her spirit? Personality? What exactly, beyond her biology, has been changed by her biology?

I mean, you can look at my fingernails and say they are just part of the husk or you can say they are holographic, they have the story of my life and essence encoded in them, and if I become a new person by detoxifying...if I become more open-hearted and joyful and easier to be around...my fingernails will partake in that simultaneously. If I cut them off, that doesn't cut off the mind-body interaction in process that gave rise to them and their unique nature, reflective of who I was as I was growing them.

It's important to me to think this way because I get so excited thinking about revitalizing everything through diet. While my natal chart won't change, the transits will go on, everything about how I handle things might transform in a more positive way. Then my relationships will follow suit, I believe.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Venus in Scorpio is also used to sexual tension arising between any random stranger within a 20 foot radius.

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Wow, neat! 'Can't imagine going through life like that.

Sigh...if only I could trade places with you for a day. That would be so exhilarating. And the weather would be so WARM! And I could watch peacocks, too... *daydreaming happily about life in California* =)

All the best to you,

posted November 10, 2012 06:32 PM            

quote:

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Xiiro: Venus in Scorpio is also used to sexual tension arising between any random stranger within a 20 foot radius. We are pretty good at controlling romance and its direction. We don't have a problem pulling someone aside and telling them flat out, "I think you are great, but..."

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Oh man, here here! I could see someone I only barely know on public transit and fall in love with them there...then by the time one of us gets off the bus, I'm over them like that (until I see them again another time). Maybe not so dramatic, but you get the idea? I can love someone I don't even know just because I know I want them.