posted November 26, 2012 04:11 PM            

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Originally posted by DepTaurus:
xiiro~when you write a response damn boy you really write one.

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Doh, the mean Linda Land ate my response.

posted November 26, 2012 04:12 PM            

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Originally posted by RedScorp:
Lmfao!!

Xiiro; have you ever watched a show called American Horror Story?

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I have not seen it, but that guy does have some sexy going on.

posted November 28, 2012 09:37 PM            

So happy you had a nice Thanksgiving with your bestie...she's probably more "family" to you than most of your family, right? =) Well, I cooked for about seven hours straight and pretended I was a chef on TV the whole time, trying to wipe out the pans with celebrity chef "flair" and using hefty, colorful bowls for mixing pie dough because they look better "on camera." My husband kept the kids happy watching Snoopy movies, guzzling blueberry soda, and running races outside. It was pretty cute.

My daughter's birthday was also nice, but she hasn't gotten her big present yet, which is a trip to Washington D.C., to go to the American Girl Place, shopping for stuff for her dolls. We'll do that after we go down to our other house.

Now...lettuce begin.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I was pondering today, the fact that the Sun transits between my Venus and Ceres every year on Thanksgiving. And how that feeling plays out in my perspective of both planets.
Do you have any Sun transit holidays and what kind of patterns do you guys notice when those holidays come around?

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Can I get you to elaborate on that first part? We don't celebrate many holidays the traditional way, so I don't really resonate with the hype surrounding them. I like Christmas sights, sounds, and smells...this is all happening between my Venus/Neptune and sun...but I think my moon might always feel a little left out when the sun transits square to it. There is always a stark element of loneliness. Plus, my mother died Dec. 9th and my father died Jan. 7th. Christmas is at the midpoint of their death dates. Which is fine with me but runs contrary to all the merriment others feel.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I have been keeping my self away from family because I am very raw and prone to snapping with those who just know how to get on my nerves. And if anyone knows how to get on my nerves...it's family.

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Ugh...sad to hear you are feeling raw and that your family does that. When I used to live near my family members...yeah, lots of tension. Like you said, they know just how to get on your nerves...my sister is the world grandmaster of that, to me.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I find it interesting that those who told these stories assumed life (young, vibrant, and strong) would never have gone with death willingly. And it interests me that they concluded the result of this cosmic struggle ended with life making a choice to return to the underworld willingly.

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Hmm! That IS pretty interesting. Time and age gentled the gods into accepting death.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Here is Rick Genest I think is super sexy.

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Ahhh...now I get to have his image indelibly tattooed in my brain for the rest of my life! How fitting! =)

So, he is a Leo/Ox and you are a Sag/Snake. Perfect match. Do you like his personality or just the look? And...let me think, how do I phrase this...to the extent that we all define ourselves by our tastes and what we are attracted to, do you find that it's easier for you to feel like a concrete Self when you attach yourself to someone who is like super-saturated with Self? Genest is extremely unique and in that way I think he is symbolic of the concept of individuality. He is spectacularly single, like Self personified. To me, you are too, but maybe not in your exterior so much as the interior. He seems the opposite. Does any of that make sense or interest you?

Sorry if I read into that too much....full moon brain is a weird critter.

The whole connection between tattoos, piercings and sexiness does make me wonder, for the billionth time, why that connection even exists. Why people get off on pain, to put it bluntly. Maybe it's something totally, unreservedly animalistic. But since I was never an animal that I know of, I can't compare notes. Do you know why?

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Misfits

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From that little clip, I get the impression that the script writer is versatile and clever. But the guy...really? He's cute?

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
All things are a perfect manifestation of the conditions which ushered them into existence.

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I seriously love that. <3 Needed to hear it.

Thank you for that whole discussion...I copied it onto my computer so I have it in case LL malfunctions again. I won't answer it point by point because I have very little to bring to the table. Just happily reading.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
My opinion is only based on my own experiences. When I returned from my NDE I knew it wasn't a universal experience, but a personalized one. Later, I even realized that my experience was a dumbed down version of what I was able to comprehend at the time.

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Wow! See...I've never heard that before, from any of these other people who went through it. Anything else you want to tell me about your NDE? (Please?)

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
If it is such an important topic for you to answer, your best bet may be to form an opinion based on your own experiences. Having NN in Scorpio, I can understand why the interest exists. I have to point out however, that it is a losing battle. You will never know for sure, the conditions of what happens when you die until you do.

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I loved that movie Flatliners. Adding to my interest in the movie, one of my longtime Pisces friends has been telling me for years that whenever she sees Julia Roberts (Scorpio), she thinks of me, because (she says) our mannerisms are so similar, and we both have big smiles. I was thinking of being like the actress as I watched that movie, looking for myself in her, and there was a crossover where I realized just how intensely I actually wanted to really do that, to be her, her character. Like, if it were offered, and I didn't have children, I would go for it.

'Haven't read much about the Cult of Osiris, where the god-kings had to have an NDE before coronation, but the whole affair completely intrigues me.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
When a person dies I don't see them as going away, because their effect on my life remains. That is what works for me. =)

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Right now as I see myself, I don't seem to have the capacity that you have, to summon the energy of other people, in complexity and at will.

Maybe this is part of my own energy blockages. I have loved people in the past that I have excised out of my brain and heart as best I can, because I am estranged from them or they are dead, and I haven't been skillful in loving what is dead or gone. On the other hand, whenever I am feeling love strongly, it's like all love comes back at once. I think love is holographic. =)

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
When he realized it wasn't going to happen, he got angry and a bit scary, but finally left.

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OMG to all that. I'm sure you sensed he was "off" when he arrived? My Pisces/Snake best friend has dealt with some serious crazies over the years and she always manages to "slither" out of the situation, like you did.

I think I might have the ability to sense who I ought to just stay away from. I'm really sensitive to looks I get from people, and a totally "wrong" look, which other people may not register, can give me a hair-trigger response. One day a robber approached our house and I could just tell from the casual look on his face that he had bad intentions. Long story, my husband ended up witnessing him rob another house, but my point is, I knew instantly.

I don't mean to find false security by over-emphasizing my discernment, but as I avoid bad energy from people by gliding away from them, I think I also avoid bad spirits by sending out a strong, "Leave me alone" vibe or being careful where I go. This might get in the way of me ever becoming a medium. =)

But I think I might be very sensitive to spirit, despite refusing to "talk" with them. I hated going to school in Gettysburg because it was like in a fog of unsettled dead spirits. I would complain about it and get blank stares from people who weren't feeling it. Some did, but a surprising number of them were oblivious. The worst haunting I ever got was when I went to the house where Anne Frank hid in Amsterdam, and my friends were sad like everyone else, but I was like, "I cannot handle this!" because it felt like spirits were there. I abruptly walked out in the middle of the tour. And I'm usually drawn to morbid topics, but the added element of feeling like my own spirit suddenly merged with that of the still-present Frank family was pulling me to respond in a way that would have been totally inappropriate, so I left.

Hmmm...it's strange that I tell you all this stuff. I strongly feel that Anne Frank's house is haunted but never told anyone that before. I just say, "It's super sad there."

It just occurred to me to google it, and now I have tears in my eyes because others report the cold spots there and haunted feeling. YES.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
And it sounds to me like what you may be asking more is, "If I believed that, how do I know the difference between what is real and what is made up".

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Kind of...I meant, assuming reincarnation is true, how do people morph from one body into another, gradually or suddenly? I had said, "When does it change, when we reincarnate, or maybe it's a gradual process of de-sistering that takes place?" with the emphasis on "when" because it's the timing I am baffled by.

I mean, some ghosts are really old, they died over a hundred years ago and are still hanging around earth? What, they haven't gotten a new body yet...or can they be in more than one place at a time, so their energy as one person who died can overlap their energy as a new, living person?

Can we haunt ourselves? =)

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Do you feel as if your experiences happened to someone else? That who you became is unrelated to what you went through?

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All of these questions are so helpful for me to think about. Thank you. I hope you don't mind if I tinker with them in my head a bit before answering. Also looking forward to exploring the transgender issue with you more, but this is already a super long post.

May the coconut moon god bestow you with radiance tonight.

posted November 30, 2012 05:50 AM            

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Originally posted by RedScorp:
I love his eyes, especially in the first image... .. .

Evan Peters, one of my celebrity crushes.

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Yes, he is definitely a sexy one. I actually like his eyes more when they are wide. I have an attraction to eyes that look like someone is on acid (where the iris is so thin it looks like the corona of an eclipse) LOL. Frighteningly enough it is the same eye as a wild animal or crazy person.

posted November 30, 2012 08:25 AM            

Lets "endive" right in...(oh God it hurts)

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Originally posted by Faith:
So happy you had a nice Thanksgiving with your bestie...she's probably more "family" to you than most of your family, right?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Well, I cooked for about seven hours straight and pretended I was a chef on TV the whole time, trying to wipe out the pans with celebrity chef "flair" and using hefty, colorful bowls for mixing pie dough because they look better "on camera."

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
My daughter's birthday was also nice, but she hasn't gotten her big present yet, which is a trip to Washington D.C., to go to the American Girl Place, shopping for stuff for her dolls.

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Originally posted by Faith:
Can I get you to elaborate on that first part?

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Every year, just before Thanksgiving my family begins spreading rumors about each other, fights break out, and people stop talking to each other. Every year, at least one person doesn't show up to Thanksgiving and Christmas, because they don't want to be in the same room as one of my other family members. Whatever the case, this time of year has always been stressful, emotionally volatile, and disconnected. The fact that my mother gets hurt when people don't show up actually angers me. It's like she guilt-trips us all into getting into the same room with each other, because she thrives off the tension (Sun is squaring my natal Moon around this time). Often she is the one spreading rumors and inciting conflict. Over the past 10 years, I tend to be the person who skips out on the event every year, because it seems to take the place of the person who would otherwise skip out. I'm generally not in a fight with anyone, I just can't stand the falseness of people who loathe each other coming together for a forced tradition.

My parents were 30 and 40 years old when they had me and my youngest sibling was 6 years older than me. My brother and sisters were all well established in a clique when I cam along, and really they had to be because my parents were volatile and emotionally horrible people. My mother neglected them in her endeavors to provide love for me and it made me their constant enemy. Because I grew up the "enemy" of my siblings, I never felt part of their group. Every year we would meet at my grand parent's house for Thanksgiving and Christmas. All my cousins were also my sibling's ages and became their extended clique when we met for the holidays. I was essentially raised an only child in a HUGE family. I have a picture of myself around age 13, my mother had met my stepfather and I was no longer eligible for her love either. Two of my cousins are playing with something in the foreground and I am staring miserably at the camera in the background. Whenever I see that picture it becomes very apparent how out of place I felt.

This is a time of year when I feel very dis-integrated and transient (Saturn also square Ceres). It is a time where I am forced to seek family and holiday elsewhere because my regular environment lacks love and nourishment and the people I am forced to interact with are family, but see me in the light of our childhood (even though they know I have suffered the same neglect they have). I think that last part is the most difficult part of Sun/Neptune square Moon/Sun's ruler in Cancer 3rd House. There is a drive to learn and evolve from my immediate family, but the way that evolution manifests is through my immediate family's choosing to see me and interact with them as someone I am not. I can never know my self directly from them, I can only learn from them who I am NOT.

Here's a link to a post about Ceres I responded to, which may help shed light on why the above relates. Ceres...Why yoo so Crazy?

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Originally posted by Faith:
We don't celebrate many holidays the traditional way, so I don't really resonate with the hype surrounding them.

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Originally posted by Faith:
Do you like his personality or just the look?... do you find that it's easier for you to feel like a concrete Self when you attach yourself to someone who is like super-saturated with Self?... He is spectacularly single, like Self personified. To me, you are too, but maybe not in your exterior so much as the interior. He seems the opposite. Does any of that make sense or interest you?

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I am very chameleon prone. I attribute this skill to Pluto in Libra, that our generation becomes different people when we interact with different company. This is because we are "facilitators". We are essentially focused on facilitating the perfect social environment. When we meet new people, we identify their mannerisms and interests and become complementary to that person's personality (or contrary depending on how Pluto manifests in the chart). This is not because we are fake, but because it creates an open path for the person to express their self without obstruction. We can then relate with them on every level of their being, which is Pluto in Libra's obsession.

That being said, I am often attracted to people who's personalities are hidden behind an easily judged or underestimated surface. People with facades are often hiding great treasure, even undiscovered by their self. It's something I love about Leo, their ego is such BS (shhh don't tell them that though lol), but when you see them beyond the lion outfit, they actually have the heart of a lion pumping in their chest. I guess it really just comes down to personality complexity.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Why people get off on pain, to put it bluntly. Maybe it's something totally, unreservedly animalistic.

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Of course there are people who do it because they think it's cool, or because they enjoy the sensation of being body modified, but that isn't my specific attraction toward this kind of stuff.

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Originally posted by Faith:
From that little clip, I get the impression that the script writer is versatile and clever. But the guy...really? He's cute?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Anything else you want to tell me about your NDE? (Please?)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I think love is holographic.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I strongly feel that Anne Frank's house is haunted but never told anyone that before. I just say, "It's super sad there."

It just occurred to me to google it, and now I have tears in my eyes because others report the cold spots there and haunted feeling. YES.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I meant, assuming reincarnation is true, how do people morph from one body into another, gradually or suddenly? I had said, "When does it change, when we reincarnate, or maybe it's a gradual process of de-sistering that takes place?" with the emphasis on "when" because it's the timing I am baffled by.

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I am under the impression that our awareness (the eye that watches our life) is not subject to the laws of universes. It is that awareness that observes whatever life we are experiencing in whichever form.... the eye that observes my life is the same eye that observes yours. Imagine looking through a kaleidoscope, each shape formed by the colors and patterns colliding represents an individual person, with it's own moment of existence. There was never really a point when each shape became its self, when each shape was fully its self, or when each shape stopped being its self. There was merely one great fluid movement when elements appeared to look a specific way and then shifted and dispersed into other forms. When each shape is no longer present, all that is left is the memory of the shape. The eye which observes the life of that shape never went away even after the shape dispersed though. Remembering a person who has passed creates an imaginary body, an imaginary body is an object, and in my perspective, all objects are observed by the eye of awareness. By creating an imaginary body for your passed loved one, it automatically becomes aware and interact with us AS our loved one. They never went away, they just stopped being confined in the form we first met them in.

What we remember of a person does not automatically make them physical, but it does allow us to interact with that person's life as it was. The residue and memory of them remains. This is why you can go to a haunted house and feel a presence. It is the result of intense energies existing in one spot. Those energies become restless and often utilize people's imagination to play out those tensions in imaginary bodies. AND if the "Many Worlds" theory is correct than you physically exist someplace else, living an infinitude of other slightly different universes, simultaneously. Which would make the physical plane no less flexible then any of the others. And just as the physical body decays, so do the places and people who remember us, eventually all forms transform into other forms, it's the law of Pluto.

What happens when we actually follow through with death though? Dunno, never done it =)

posted November 30, 2012 11:33 PM            

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Freaky Hu?

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posted December 01, 2012 12:03 AM            

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Originally posted by RedScorp:
Oh that's actually kinda cool!
When it comes to guys, I like 'em taller than me...and a really nice butt like seriously, when it's round and cushion-y, it's just killerrrr... #TMI Personality-wise, it's more varied; I like the quiet or kinda dorky types (cute) just as much as I do the aggressive, ego-guys...

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I'm similar when it comes to personality, though I have to settle on admitting I don't have a specific type. Just when I think I have one, something contrary walks in the door and makes me drool. I'm not so much a butt guy as I am a hands and face guy. If a guy has nice hands and an attractive face, I can overlook almost anything else.

I'm into guys with big di*ks though (if we are getting all TMI), but that I think is more a psychological fixation, I dated a guy with an 11 incher and there is only so much you can do with something like that, before you get exhausted having to wrestle it in and out of its cage.

posted December 01, 2012 12:51 AM            

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...and there is only so much you can do with something like that, before you get exhausted having to wrestle it in and out of its cage.

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LMAO damn it Tim! I have an oral fixation...

posted December 01, 2012 04:41 AM            

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Originally posted by RedScorp:
I think this may be my Scorpio Venus, but I can still recall how/what I felt, from sensations to feelings, even if I'm not exactly proud of him now. Same for you? It's the emotional bond. It was there at one point so I reason I can recall it, and things that happened because of it, lol!

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quote:

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Originally posted by RedScorp:
(Disclaimer: we didn't do it, and at one point, he wanted to, but I chickened out lmfao!)
Oh, and I guess more TMI: I like having my uh, you knows, ( ) fondled or played with when getting head or even just cuddling/relaxing.

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When it comes to sex, the roles for me change too. The idea of having sex with a woman the same way I have sex with a guy is almost offensive to my psyche. I can not even wrap my head around the idea of having sex with a woman wearing a strap on. Even the idea of topping a guy took me a very long time to be able to enjoy.

Haha you are in a frisky mood tonight Scorpy. I wonder what planets the Sun transits when it passes over your holiday season?

posted December 01, 2012 10:14 PM            

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Xiiro: He ended up spending the night for a couple days and we did nothing but sleep in each other's arms

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Aw wow that actually sounds kinda romantic...honestly, sometimes when I'm bored and waiting to fall asleep, I imagine what I'd do if my crush was there beside me, hug them or something, sleep, sleep in, etc. hahahaaaa. And I have lots of crushes! I used to keep a list + some astro placements but I ended up deeming that creepy lmfao!

I crush easily on guys, but with girls, it takes longer. Let's compare some more! I have lots of crushes, I crush easily, and I can tell when I first meet/see someone if I'm going to crush on them.

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I actually had the impression you were a virgin when it came to the actual act of sex.

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Oh yeah I pretty much am. I had a phase where I was out and about, but really, I can count the times I've actually had sex on one hand, and none were with guys. And I hear you about the differences between treating the sexes! With gals, I'm pretty much the same. I feel inclined to treat her and stuff; I guess I really feel like doing things in her comfort, with which I tend to tread on the safe side hahaha!

With guys, I feel more playful and I like teasing or flattering. I can play whatever role, as long as there's some fun and games.

posted December 02, 2012 04:07 PM            

Like, the opposition is akin to say, Libra or something? I don't really get it fully.

Also, I was thinking about the semisextile. I thought that maybe, the two planets involved sort of acknowledge the other's themes. In the sextile, the planets support each other and work together. In the semisextile, because of the difference in elements, mode, and yin/yang, they aren't best at working together, but they're still linked in a neutral, mutually beneficial way. Sound about right?

Like, I have Mercury semisextile Pluto, in Libra and Scorpio. I realise that you can't effectively communicate or relate with others if you deny the darker, heavier themes latent in the world. And, to deny those issues and keeping them hush hush makes them worse. Talking about them is one of the best ways to help resolve them.
My friend has Moon semisextile Sun, in Virgo and Libra. I think here, it might mean she knows that she can't enjoy or work happily if she takes what she's doing very seriously. The processes she's comfortable with works so she can have the most fun. She's also keen to what she needs to do to optimise her self expression.

posted December 02, 2012 06:45 PM            

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Originally posted by RedScorp:
Hey Xiiro, what did you say about minor aspects again? The major aspects represent something about the first six signs orrrr...? Can you elaborate on that?

Like, the opposition is akin to say, Libra or something? I don't really get it fully.

Also, I was thinking about the semisextile. I thought that maybe, the two planets involved sort of acknowledge the other's themes. In the sextile, the planets support each other and work together. In the semisextile, because of the difference in elements, mode, and yin/yang, they aren't best at working together, but they're still linked in a neutral, mutually beneficial way. Sound about right?

Like, I have Mercury semisextile Pluto, in Libra and Scorpio. I realise that you can't effectively communicate or relate with others if you deny the darker, heavier themes latent in the world. And, to deny those issues and keeping them hush hush makes them worse. Talking about them is one of the best ways to help resolve them.
My friend has Moon semisextile Sun, in Virgo and Libra. I think here, it might mean she knows that she can't enjoy or work happily if she takes what she's doing very seriously. The processes she's comfortable with works so she can have the most fun. She's also keen to what she needs to do to optimise her self expression.

Quite a lot...oopsie, lol!

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I believe you are referring to Aspects and their Harmonic relationships. For example:

Conjunction (which does not divide the wheel, resulting in a whole or "1") is associated with Aries energy
Opposition (which divides the wheel into 2's) is associated with Taurus energy
Trine (dividing the wheel into 3rd's) is associated with Gemini energy
Square (dividing the wheel into 4th's) is associated with Cancer energy
Quintile (dividing the wheel into 5th's) is associated with Leo energy
Sextile (dividing the wheel into 6th's) is associated with Virgo energy
Spetile (dividing the wheel into 7th's) is associated with Libra energy
Octile (dividing the wheel into 8th's) is associated with Scorpio energy
Novile (dividing the wheel into 9th's) is associated with Sagittarius energy
Decile (dividing the wheel into 10th's) is associated with Capricorn energy
Undecile (dividing the wheel into 11th's) is associated with Aquarius energy
Semi-Sextile (dividing the wheel into 12th's) is associated with Pisces energy

All the "major" aspects are associated with the 1st through 6th Harmonic (or Aries - Virgo). This also means Conjunction - Sextile are focused on the development and establishment of our objective self, while Septile - Semi-Sextile focuses on development in a subjective and environmentally aware way.

Sextiles vs Semi-Sextiles for example:

Sextiles generally represent an easily flowing energy between two planets, but no energy will flow unless conscious effort and attention is involved. Sextiles can just go to waste if ignored and require both planets to team up, nourish each other, or work in synchronicity in order for the sextile to shine. When a sextile is invested in, great results come from the relationship.

posted December 03, 2012 04:00 PM            

Happy Birthday!

We're packing to move down to our other house tomorrow, but I'll catch up with y'all in a few days.

Hope your day is great!

posted December 06, 2012 09:10 PM            

How is everything, how was your birthday? Did you get any presents? I hope you had a very nice time.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Lets "endive" right in...(oh God it hurts)

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LOL...okay let's! (Beets me why I think that's so funny, I have been giggling every time I think of it, though.)

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
"You are my real family, the people I grew up with are just the primordial ooze I crawled out of". lol

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Aww! I hope she visits you a lot in Hawaii!

Don't you get along with any of your siblings?

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Whatever the case, this time of year has always been stressful, emotionally volatile, and disconnected.

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((( HUG )))) I'm sad for you....got a bit of a stomachache reading about your family life.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I just can't stand the falseness of people who loathe each other coming together for a forced tradition.

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Me, either. That was how social gatherings with my extended family felt, growing up.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
...my youngest sibling was 6 years older than me. My brother and sisters were all well established in a clique when I cam along.... My mother neglected them in her endeavors to provide love for me and it made me their constant enemy. Because I grew up the "enemy" of my siblings, I never felt part of their group.....All my cousins were also my sibling's ages and became their extended clique when we met for the holidays. I was essentially raised an only child in a HUGE family.

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^ I could have written all of the above (I just edited out a few phrases.) Except my next-oldest sibling is five years older than me, not six. And my father is the one who allegedly spoiled me.

What a strange coincidence.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I can never know my self directly from them, I can only learn from them who I am NOT.

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Interesting. So there is no "space" provided within your family for you to express your self and have that be seen, acknowledged, validated? It's like they just persist in seeing you wrong and interact with you as if you are somebody you are not?

Sorry if this just random or off the wall, but does this disconnect affect your first chakra at all? I've read that "tribe issues" affect that.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Here's a link to a post about Ceres I responded to, which may help shed light on why the above relates.

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I loved reading that.

You said, "I feel very together and loved when I know I am contributing to the world."

<3 !

It just occurred to me that my Ceres is probably opposing yours, yet I'm thinking Gemini Ceres is just as much interested in language as Sag. So I think this works out fine between us.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
How do you celebrate?

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We don't.

However, we do lots of stuff every December. We go to a lot of places that are all decked out for Xmas; we travel a lot.

The kids get presents later in the winter when we celebrate our own homemade holiday...but that's a long story.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
The tattoos are brilliant in my opinion. It forces people to either view him as his tattoos, or explore his personality. I think you find out very quickly who is your friend and who is not worth your time.

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I'm so confused by all of this, but it's hard for me to pinpoint why. I guess I think it's inconsiderate to erect a barricade around yourself and then expect people to go the extra effort of scaling the walls to come and find the real you (when that's part of the motivation.) So when people do things that seem like barricade-building, I'm like, "Okay. Much ado about nothing here, I will go along with all this if you want, but it doesn't mean anything at all to me." I just want to be real with people, and whatever delays or hampers my ability to do that, I either resent or feel totally ambivalent about.

I was looking at a Vogue magazine for once yesterday and got the same feeling looking at the models with their dumb-looking hair and costumes, coupled with a haughty expression. I just wanted to laugh because I see no appeal whatsoever. I think it would be the exact same if I woke up, didn't brush my hair, threw on my husband's work clothes, put a sneer on my face and went to meet one of these models for lunch. What could she possibly say to me since I've made myself an alien? And what could I say to her if she looks like one? The spectacle has to be dealt with first. If she is the type who can look beyond the spectacle, as I am, then constructing the spectacle was a waste of time; we would have found our particular rapport eventually, anyway.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I attribute this skill to Pluto in Libra, that our generation becomes different people when we interact with different company.

---

Come to think of it....yes, the Libra Pluto people I've known are more like this than other generations.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
That being said, I am often attracted to people who's personalities are hidden behind an easily judged or underestimated surface.

---

My ex-boyfriend told me that he liked me for that reason...ROTFL.

"You only SEEM plain," he said.

And I was like, "Thanks???"

Me and my college flashbacks, they never quit. But moving on, I definitely agree that it's great fun when someone is able to surprise me...when they look one way but are really another way. It's like the grown-up version of peek-a-boo in my opinion... and I don't mean that in a belittling way whatsoever, peek-a-boo is an awesome game, as all the wise little babies know. =)

In the past, I might have fallen in love with a few guys who slowly revealed themselves to be much more than I initially suspected. Looks didn't matter so much. In fact, sometimes just one sentence or one gesture could suggest to me the existence of a highly developed psychological underworld that I wanted to engage with, but knew I would have to move a lot closer to be there. When I caught a glimpse of that, I was smitten. Once I even developed a crush on an obese, poorly dressed gas station worker, to the extent that I deliberately went out of my way to buy gas there in the hopes of talking to him more. That was probably the ugliest guy I ever liked but he sure had the gift o' the gab.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
They are playing at (and some times poking fun at) "being a person".

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I guess I could find that interesting. My favorite philosophy teacher was really into that and she even wrote a long essay online...lemme see if I can find it....about tattoos and body modification.

Hmmm, this one is not the one I saw before. How much can a person write about tattoos?!

But in googling her, I found this nice quote of hers: "In using language to name things, we implicitly deny the Heraclitean insight that 'all is flux.'" Oooo so true!

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:

I have a strong pull in my life toward Anne Frank too.

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I'm glad you said that, I felt a little sheepish delving into it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Those energies become restless and often utilize people's imagination to play out those tensions in imaginary bodies. AND if the "Many Worlds" theory is correct than you physically exist someplace else, living an infinitude of other slightly different universes, simultaneously. Which would make the physical plane no less flexible then any of the others.

---

SO well said, all of it!!!

Now one more thing, I haven't addressed this yet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
Much confusion about transgendered people comes from the assumption that these people are MEN or WOMEN who want to be the other gender. That is not the case with most trans people I have met. The case is often the person has a body that is publically identified MALE or FEMALE, but does not reflect how their mind identifies its self. When they look inward, they experience a different gender identity than what their body reflects. When they experience hormonal and social gender habits, it results in confusion, frustration, and depression.

---

What's difficult for me is understanding how to "look inward to experience my gender." I don't have any idea of what that means....what exactly am I looking for, with internal cues? An attraction to shoes and desire to be around children...is that my femininity asserting itself? But there are men who like shoes and children, too. Is it my attraction to men? But men like other men, too. How about my lack of interest in auto repair, is that a gender cue? But so many men have zero mechanical ability.

I don't really know what it means, to feel like a certain gender. It's like trying to pinpoint where you are in space without any solid reference points. I can't fathom what it would be like to feel like a man trapped inside a woman's body because I don't even feel like a woman in a woman's body, I just do my thing.

And if the world suddenly changed and I had to wear men's clothes, learn auto repair, watch sports, engage in locker room talk....I guess I could adapt. Right now, I'm into philosophy, art, astrology, gardening, cooking....all trans-gender activities. I think my mothering instinct is definitely female, but if I didn't know what gender I was, and caught myself hugging a two-year old, I wouldn't have some big epiphany like, "Oh NOW I know I'm a woman inside!"

So, it's hard for me to put myself in the shoes of a person who wants to switch genders. I really cannot understand how they feel, so I can't empathize because I don't know how to conjure the emotion that I would attach to my own gender suffering. I have none. If anything, I am gender ambivalent, which for all I know is a pathology in itself, I've just never been diagnosed before, and don't care to be, because I'm fine just looking and acting like a regular woman.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
People may not realize how difficult it could be for a person to feel one way inside, but be expected to act another way on the outside.

---

Right, in my case, that's true, I don't understand it. I feel like gender expectations are pretty lax at this point, so there is a lot of opportunity for people to do whatever they like without facing rejection. If a man wants to stay home with the baby and change diapers, some people will snicker, but a lot of people couldn't care less. If a woman wants to drive a dump truck and wear camo every day, most people won't blink. So the need to make a full crossover to align oneself better with expectations...isn't that kind of like admitting defeat? Like saying, "I know I can't fit in feeling the way I am, so I will play the game your way, to fit in" ?

Or maybe there is an aesthetic quality to it that they are seeking. I am baffled because I never talked to a transgender person before and have zero frame of reference. But I would afford them the same courtesy I offer basically everyone: "Whatever floats your boat."

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Just like choosing to come out as gay, you make the decision to automatically choose a hard life.

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I understand. It's true that some people do want a hard life, though. People like suffering, like your teacher TNH said. I think it gives us something to do to fill the time, personally. NOT saying that people are doing it just for that reason, but I think suffering isn't always a deterrent, it can also be an incentive.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
In many situations a transitioning person is blamed for their friend's and family's lack of understanding.

---

Well, that's sad. Why make a big deal out of nothing? I guess I just don't care about it enough...like I can't imagine anyone I know saying, "I'm going to switch genders because I've lived this tormented inner life in the wrong body.." and me feeling any sudden desire to react in a big way, except insofar as I take on the burdens of my loved ones.

Btw, I seriously don't care about a lot of stuff that other people care about.

Sigh...I've always loved the story of Robinson Crusoe and wanted to be stranded on a deserted island. On that island, other people don't exist and don't matter. I can just be alone with nature. I'm happy that way. While I love my children and never want to be apart from them for long, I am also very content just sitting in the forest looking at stuff. I am happy there, it is timeless there, it is culture-less there. I can be like an animal.

Maybe I am an animal trapped in a human body!

Considering how much work I didn't get done while I was writing this, I think I might be a sloth!

posted December 08, 2012 05:38 PM            

The birthday was frustrating. I'm over the whole situation now, but it was kind of an endless bad day (more family crap lol). It's over now though, so that is nice. I did get some presents. My niece got me an Elmer Fudd looking, red plaid hat. I got some shirts and I renewed my driver's license. So that was all good.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Beets me why I think that's so funny

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Aww! I hope she visits you a lot in Hawaii!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Don't you get along with any of your siblings?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
^ I could have written all of the above (I just edited out a few phrases.) Except my next-oldest sibling is five years older than me, not six. And my father is the one who allegedly spoiled me.

What a strange coincidence.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
So there is no "space" provided within your family for you to express your self and have that be seen, acknowledged, validated? It's like they just persist in seeing you wrong and interact with you as if you are somebody you are not?

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The truth is even if we sat down and had a long and deep conversation, I'm not sure I would be able to express my self in a way they are capable of understanding. There are tiny moments, when I say something profound and it totally expands their perception. Or when we are discussing something and I convey a level of understanding that they don't expect. But how do you describe your face to a blind person? You really can only use generalized terms (I have blue eyes), or give them moments of being able to touch your face.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Sorry if this just random or off the wall, but does this disconnect affect your first chakra at all? I've read that "tribe issues" affect that.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
It just occurred to me that my Ceres is probably opposing yours, yet I'm thinking Gemini Ceres is just as much interested in language as Sag. So I think this works out fine between us.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
The kids get presents later in the winter when we celebrate our own homemade holiday...but that's a long story

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
I'm so confused by all of this......If she is the type who can look beyond the spectacle, as I am, then constructing the spectacle was a waste of time; we would have found our particular rapport eventually, anyway.

---

I can't speak for every person who participates in body modification, I can only express why I would do what they are doing. For me, it takes the guesswork out of getting to know me. I am a weird person, and that surprises some people when they get to know me. For some, it may be hard for them to accept. When I look like a weirdo, the people who approach me are not expecting me to be someone I am not. If I don't get the "so I am a lot more that what I appear" issue out of the way, I spend my whole life feeling guilty or rejected for misleading people into thinking I am just a normal guy.

I don't want to feel guilty for being myself with people who can't handle whatever that is. One way to warn those people that they are about to meet a weird person, is by making an effort to decorate my outsides in a way which warns the people who may engage me. In my opinion, it is a respectful courtesy for myself and others. It can be annoying having to constantly dumb one's self down in order to fit into the wrong tribe.

We live in a world where a whole bunch of overpopulated, insane, bald monkeys run around calling things "normal" or "abnormal". Your body is really the only physical thing that "belongs" to you in this lifetime, if you think adding metal or ink to it makes it beautiful, decorate it however you like. I feel it has just as much to do with letting people in, as keeping people out. I mean, the person is just wearing ink on their skin, they're not running around with a knife and shouting at anyone who approaches them. If someone drawing, or hanging jewelery on their body is horribly offensive to some people, then those people are likely not compatible. But I feel it poses a challenge for those people, why is it so difficult to get to know someone with an unconventional exterior, even (for some) to the point of offense? The same opinion could be had of women who don't wear makeup, in the eyes of women who do. A woman without makeup could be seen as lazy, unkempt, uninterested in caring for her appearance. None of those things could be true though, it's just someone getting offended over the way another person chooses to showcase their body.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
"You only SEEM plain," he said.

And I was like, "Thanks???"

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
My favorite philosophy teacher was really into that and she even wrote a long essay online...lemme see if I can find it....about tattoos and body modification.

---

Sometimes it seems smart people write crap just for other smart people. Kinda defeats the purpose IMO, but in our world and at this time, it's more important that we reiterate how well we know our profession, than brave the possibility of appearing stupid hehe. Do you mind translating to me the gist of your professor's paper?

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
What's difficult for me is understanding how to "look inward to experience my gender." I don't have any idea of what that means

---

Part has to do with how a trans person is treated by society. If the trans person lived on an island by their self, with no social impositions, there may be less of a desire to make the outside match the inside. The problem is, when a trans person leaves their home, they are treated like someone who they do not identify with. Perhaps like waking up with amnesia, to a group of people who say they are your family and friends. Attending a job you are told is "your job" and raising children who you don't remember having. Could you sleep in the same bed as the guy who said he was your husband? What if he wanted to have sex? There seems to be a strong level of disconnect between what a trans person considers "self" and the life they are forced to live before transitioning.

The social aspects of gender are superficial (like playing with dollies, liking pink, enjoying sports, or playing with cars), but the deeper emotional aspects of gender are founded on knowing one's place in their tribe. When you step out your door, the world treats you a certain way because your body is female. Our world is ignorant in believing "life works a certain way, and the other stuff is just mutations or spin-offs of what is normal". This is something gay people have experienced by society too. Society believes that just because procreation happens between two people of the opposite gender, that love only exists in that environment too. The truth is, love and procreation are two very different things, and both can exist without the presence of either. In the case of trans people, the world defines roles for people's physical gender, and then expects their soul to accept those roles. For some that is the natural way of the world. For some like us, we can take it or leave it, we are fine with our physical gender and all the fun crap that comes with it. For some, the roles their soul identifies with are more like those of the opposite physical gender and being treated like their body's gender is not something their soul associates with.

When it comes down to it, I think it is much more complex than just "she wants to be a he and he wants to be a she". Psychological gender can dictate where we feel we belong and how we feel we should respond to situations as they arise, how we feel we should interact, and with whom we feel we should be interacting. It's easy to say, "it's just gender, be a butch woman or a fem man". That does not resolve the problem though, because trans people don't necessarily feel like butch women or fem men. They feel like a woman in every way except for their body or they feel like a man in every way except for their body. I am exceedingly convinced of the validity of the transgender struggle after hearing how trans people feel after taking hormones.

When the Estrogen or Testosterone sets in, they talk about feeling like their self for the first time. Trans women feel less sexual, more delicate, their breasts become sensitive, they feel like they can finally get out all the emotions they weren't able to exercise before. Trans men feel like their heads clear, their emotions become more easily manageable, for the first time they feel deliberate and focused. It's like a monkey being born with no tail and then genetically engineering him one as an adult. All of the sudden he gains this new dimension of mobility which he was always wired to use, but couldn't because his body was not developed to facilitate it. Additionally, there are gay trans men and lesbian trans women, so the transgender dilemma isn't directly related to repressed sexuality or social roles. The fact that some men transition into butch lesbians or women transition into fem gay boys, is counter intuitive to the idea that transgender people seek to experience the benefits of an opposing social gender.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
So the need to make a full crossover to align oneself better with expectations...isn't that kind of like admitting defeat? Like saying, "I know I can't fit in feeling the way I am, so I will play the game your way, to fit in" ?

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I understand. It's true that some people do want a hard life, though. People like suffering

---

When people are born into privilege they rarely comprehend those with less privilege and even in places with the least privilege, being gay or transgendered is considered reprehensible. In places like Iran and Africa (just to name a couple) there are gay and transgender people who will live their entire life hidden or completely unfulfilled. It is easy to say from the perspective of the United States, that these things are more acceptable in society, but if the pain of being gay or transgender was a superficial one, they would not exist in places where the penalty of being discovered is death by slow and public execution. I'll spare you the pictures, but a google image search of "gay public execution" does not return with a small list of pictures.

The derogatory terms for different races or genders tend to refer to demeaning animals, embarrassing times in history, mispronunciation of their country of origin, or even food popular to their culture. For gay people the term Fagg0t means "kindling", we are for burning. I'm not saying we have it worse than anyone else. I am pointing out that just because western, 1st world society puts on a happy face and decides persecution of gay people is against the rules, it doesn't all the sudden become easier. If we look at the struggle women have faced in our society. There are laws all over the world banning abuse and rape of women, supporting the equality of women, and inspiring women to become strong individuals. Yet women still make less money than men in the corporate world and our own government wastes money debating if female victims of rape asked for it; if pregnancy is an indication that the rape was actually consensual. When there is a person driving poorly on the road, my mother comments that the person is either female or Asian... and SHE'S a woman!?! The point is, how society says the world works, and how the world actually works on an interpersonal level, or a grand scale are very different things. And that includes how society perceives the suffering of different groups. I think there is a sense of glamor in the idea of being a minority, and those who could never actually experience the rough aspects of being a minority often attempt to be viewed as an equal. If those people actually faced a lifetime of being in those people's shoes, they would thank their white, male, heterosexual, upper-middle-class, stars that they were dealt the hand they have. We are not talking about something that gets you down one day and then the next day everything's back to normal, we are talking about living in a world that reminds you every day you are scary, weird, frightening, disgusting, worthless, lesser-than, incapable, abnormal, horrible, silly, not to be taken seriously, invalid, etc..

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
Sigh...I've always loved the story of Robinson Crusoe and wanted to be stranded on a deserted island. On that island, other people don't exist and don't matter. I can just be alone with nature. I'm happy that way. While I love my children and never want to be apart from them for long, I am also very content just sitting in the forest looking at stuff. I am happy there, it is timeless there, it is culture-less there. I can be like an animal.

Maybe I am an animal trapped in a human body!

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Slowly waving goodnight =)

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Good night. =)

posted December 11, 2012 11:27 AM            

*Season's Greetings*

Before I get started I just wanted to thank you again for this amazing conversation. <3 Spent most of my free time yesterday trying to learn more about transgender issues and people, and writing most of this post; it's been a very interesting adventure and I'm glad you've prompted me to look a little closer at what's going on. But I'll get to that in a little bit....

*Hugging you* first because I hate when birthdays suck. At least you did get the Elmer Fudd hat. LOL, do you wear it in public? My husband has one and he wears it out, totally unperturbed by all the people snickering at him. He's like, "You're just jealous."

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
Okay, this is just getting corny. Well, this conversation lives somewhere between corny and radish. The fact that you get a laugh out of it, does give me some peas of mind. Okay, I have bean milking the farm puns for too long. I have a feeling this horrible farm pun thing shall not die any time soon though...shallot?

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*screams with laughter* OMG I almost pea'd my pants reading that! (Not that I would mention an actual leek... I mean orange you glad I didn't??) hehehehe

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I wonder what will happen when my mom dies, because she is the glue that keeps us all in forced interaction.

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Maybe you will just not see each other any more? Maybe that will actually give you some peace? I don't mean to sound heartless but I see how separation can be beneficial; living with my schizophrenic sister and then having her control my dad was a long ordeal. Never seeing her any more is on the one hand a constant stress, because she doesn't check in with us to let us know she is safe. But on the other hand, I have been freed of so much misery by not having her mental illness preying on me at close range.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
When my parents divorced, I was in elementary school and my closest aged sibling was about to graduate high school. The next time I saw my siblings, I was old enough to graduate high school and my closest aged sibling was already raising his first kid.

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WTF? I think it's totally screwed up that your parents let that happen!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
It's idiotic in my opinion that it is such a difficult thing to grasp, but part of it has to do with them yearning for the good ol days and I fit into that perception as a person who I am not.

---

Isn't it strange, how persistent that yearning can be with people? Like your siblings are all over 40 now, and they are still hanging onto their childhood...even if it was a messy one.

Because I am so much younger than my siblings, their view of my early life is in some ways at odds with my own. For example, my father switched careers right before I was born, but consequently lost a lot of money. I was always morose about the money troubles I overheard my parents discussing. But my brothers will say things about how childhood was so fun and carefree, how they had all these toys and went all these fun places. It's like we grew up in different families altogether.

I actually tend to forget I have a family that I was born into. I've only seen everyone together once in the last decade, twice if you count the time my sister wasn't there. Last time I was with all my brothers, at one brother's wedding in 2010, people kept remarking on the spectacle: "Wow, you have four really tall brothers!" And I was like, "I know, right?! HOW WEIRD is this?"

Which may have confused them but I was sincere. I forget we are a family, I forget we look alike and talk alike and remember things in common about our parents.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Intellectual communication nourishes you and makes you feel connected/integrated with others. You must also feel nourishing your children's intellectual/communicative flexibility is one of the greatest things a parent could contribute to a child's development.

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So true I got goosebumps. Yes, I deliberately use conversation as one of the pillars of my children's education. This actually backfired a little bit for me, because my oldest son who just turned 13 really loves big words, partly as a consequence of my normalizing it in every day conversation. As he was growing up, I chose the fancier words all the time because he has great retention (Scorpio Mercury), and it was just fun to teach this way. However, now his vocabulary is so prodigious he might even say "prodigious" to other kids he meets, not always realizing that he sounds like a geek or show off. Sometimes he does realize it but doesn't care, it's like he's possessed with the spirit of Noah Webster and has to "say what he needs to say."

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
The person with tattoos all over their body is at least being honest, by wearing theirs on their face. They are saying "This is my persona, what's yours?". It's the people who believe they don't hide behind a persona who are the most dangerous to their self and others.

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But everything about how we shape our appearance is persona-building, from tattoos to jewelry to hair gel, wouldn't you say? Meanwhile, someone can look very natural, but actually have unresolved issues that make them fake on another level. I think it's impossible to generalize.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
For me, it takes the guesswork out of getting to know me. I am a weird person, and that surprises some people when they get to know me. For some, it may be hard for them to accept. When I look like a weirdo, the people who approach me are not expecting me to be someone I am not.

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Are you a weirdo? You seem like one of the most normal people I have ever met. My concept of normalcy is largely based on emotional intelligence. I don't care if you talk to crystals or even if you hoard giant reptiles in your basement, you are empathic and articulate, and that's normal to me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
One way to warn those people that they are about to meet a weird person, is by making an effort to decorate my outsides in a way which warns the people who may engage me. In my opinion, it is a respectful courtesy for myself and others.

---

I admire your consideration but perhaps I differ in approach; I figure it's everyone's job to suspend judgement and refrain from making assumptions about people. So I am not responsible for the confusion if someone else thought I was "normal" because I wear normal clothes. I don't want to be controlled by to their tendency to generalize. I'm more concerned with finding and expressing a personal aesthetic that feels right to me.

And I think it would be impossible for me to signal my eccentricities to people, anyway. What could I wear that will warn them that I don't celebrate most holidays or call myself a Democrat or Republican?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
If someone drawing, or hanging jewelery on their body is horribly offensive to some people, then those people are likely not compatible. But I feel it poses a challenge for those people, why is it so difficult to get to know someone with an unconventional exterior, even (for some) to the point of offense?

---

Concentrating on this question, I only come up with vague ideas like, "Maybe tattoos and piercings signal self-harm on some level, and people distrust others who harm themselves, ie if you hurt yourself like that, you will probably hurt me, too." Another possibility is they associate tattoos with the content: some show excessive sentimentality, some glorify death, some are ugly and indicate poor discernment. Some are very cool and, to me, are attractive. I like your ram tattoos, I have liked some extremely well-done ones I've seen at the water park. (One girl had beautiful Libra scales between her shoulders and a stunning lion on her tailbone....yeah I guess I favor astrological symbols LOL)

I don't like how pierced faces look, I don't like eyebrow piercings, lip piercings, etc. But I have been highly compatible with some people who are pierced. It has deterred me from wanting to get romantic with them (when I was young, obviously) but we could still be good friends.

(And you're over there thinking, "But what kind of Venus conjunct Neptune person are you, being so finicky?!") heheheh

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Do you mind translating to me the gist of your professor's paper?

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Hell no, it's against my religion to watch other people mentally masturbating like that.

Actually a bit relieved that you didn't want to read it. =)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
I am similar to you, in the effect that I don't feel particularly male or female, but I don't mind being in a male body. When we wake up every day, we don't mind being in our body as it is. For some trans people, their physical gender is not a comfortable environment.

---

Yes, and your analogy to your inability to really comprehend childbirth was helpful to me. I have already watched a lot of videos about transgender people (on assignment from my German friend, if I recall correctly...she has an 8H stellium in Libra.) But now I looked at them with an eye to understanding what it feels like to fervently wish you could be the other gender, to the point where that wish seemed to take over.

Let me just say up front that I don't need to understand people to be accepting. I have always been accepting by nature. I don't want to reject anyone... and I don't put them under my 3H Pluto microscope just so I can find excuses to deem them unworthy of my compassion. With the trans issue, I already accept these people.

But I still want to understand...what is this all about? Is it possible that there are reasons for it, that don't get discussed enough? For example, I learned that Klinefelter's Syndrome often accompanies gender dysphoria and many M2F trans people have Klinefelter's (which affects 1 in 600 men!) Yet there seems to have been no effort made yet to find the statistics for this coincidence! WTF?

Also one trans guy repeated the words of his therapist who told him, "The fear you had as a male, of secretly being a female, was never going to go away unless you became a female." This was passed on as irrefutable Truth. Is that true? Because from my personal experience, it can go away. When I was young, like around age 7, I wanted to be a boy so much I actually looked like a boy, was often referred to as male by strangers. Then again in high school, I reverted to a male look (and was referred to as male on some occasions) and for the last time, in college.

It's just easier for girls to play with their gender than men, and that flexibility is actually pretty nice, because it seems that a woman's emotional landscape is more varied than a man's anyway. So cross dressing might accompany a whole host of emotional factors...not just FEAR (as a boy might feel when he is attracted to dresses) but, for a girl, there might be the desire to actually deter male advances (as when I was heartbroken after I broke up with my first boyfriend); it can also be to look tough and ward off anyone treating you with kid gloves while going through a hard time; it can be about lots of transient issues that do go away.

So if there is like a scale of gender, where 1 is female and 10 is male, women are given greater latitude to play up and down that scale than men. I think it might be because masculinity is more accepted from both sexes, therefore expressions of it are more welcome. Meanwhile men can barely get away with wearing a pink golf shirt before all kinds of speculation and intrusive questioning begins. So it's no wonder to me that fear is such a factor for many of the M2F people I listened to; they seemed to be taken over by a fear of being feminine. If they weren't afraid, would things have played out differently? Because I think fear can shape people (case in point, people who suffer from OCD.) Then I wonder if women who transition to men are also, on some level, afraid of being feminine, or uncomfortable with the expectations put on them to be womanly.

Interestingly, most of the trans women I've seen are well done-up, and they talk about early desires to put on lacey stuff, makeup, and dresses. I get the impression they did not switch genders just so they can look like 90% of the moms pushing strollers at the mall; it's like they really want to go all-out for the girly-girl look. Which makes me wonder: is this common among trans women because they feel like they need all these accessories to "pass," or was their attraction to that stuff part of the root of their desire to change over in the first place? Can it be accurately said that they didn't merely want to become women, they wanted to become more like divas? And if we lived in a society where everyone, male and female, dressed the same, they wouldn't have felt the same desire to transition? How central was clothing in their decision-making process? These are the things I wonder about.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
This is something gay people have experienced by society too. Society believes that just because procreation happens between two people of the opposite gender, that love only exists in that environment too. The truth is, love and procreation are two very different things, and both can exist without the presence of either.

---

We have a depressingly narrow understanding of love in this culture.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Trans men feel like their heads clear, their emotions become more easily manageable, for the first time they feel deliberate and focused.

---

What a sales pitch! Gosh, if only they sold T at Whole Foods! =D

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
This question assumes that the body is fine as it is and the problem is an internal one which can be overcome with the acceptance of one's situation. Consider someone born with poor eyesight, a missing limb, a cleft palate, chemical imbalances, etc... Would those people be admitting defeat if they acquired glasses, prosthetic limbs, reconstructive surgery, or medication?

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I see your point. My bad.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
The body is not more important than the mind, they are of equal importance and in some cases, the mind trumps the body when the result preserves the body in the long run.

---

Yes. And because of my radical belief in the power of the mind to heal, and my fascination with the plasticity of the brain, and my awareness of how function can affect form throughout the body...and 6H Mercury widely trine 3H Pluto...I can't help wondering if anything less drastic than an all-out sex change could be as therapeutic as a sex change. Not because I find sex change odious, but because for every problem I am always wondering about all possible solutions. And here, if the problem seems to be originating in the mind, I do see extra potential for healing through the mind, and get a little upset if that approach is rejected out of hand as insensitive...which, so far, it seems to be. I don't understand that.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I'm not saying there aren't people in the world who are gay or trans, because it affords them some type of attention or validation. Honestly though, those people would be as insane as a person who wakes up every morning, puts on a razor blade bodysuit and ends their day with an alcohol bath.

---

It gets better, though!

I noticed a lot of gay people find life easier once they get out of school. I am not the biggest fan of conventional schooling, as you know.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
For gay people the term Fagg0t means "kindling", we are for burning. I'm not saying we have it worse than anyone else. I am pointing out that just because western, 1st world society puts on a happy face and decides persecution of gay people is against the rules, it doesn't all the sudden become easier.

---

Putting my great big sloth arms around you and holding tight. Sorry for all the pain you've had!

Always more to say but it'll have to wheat for another thyme.

posted December 12, 2012 06:17 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
^ AWW!!!! Now I am convinced I AM a sloth, because my reaction to that picture was something like: "There you are! My baby!!!" =D

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
At least you did get the Elmer Fudd hat. LOL, do you wear it in public?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
OMG I almost pea'd my pants reading that! (Not that I would mention an actual leek... I mean orange you glad I didn't??) hehehehe

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I don't mean to sound heartless but I see how separation can be beneficial; living with my schizophrenic sister and then having her control my dad was a long ordeal.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
WTF? I think it's totally screwed up that your parents let that happen!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
It's like we grew up in different families altogether.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I forget we are a family, I forget we look alike and talk alike and remember things in common about our parents.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Sometimes he does realize it but doesn't care, it's like he's possessed with the spirit of Noah Webster and has to "say what he needs to say."

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
But everything about how we shape our appearance is persona-building, from tattoos to jewelry to hair gel, wouldn't you say? Meanwhile, someone can look very natural, but actually have unresolved issues that make them fake on another level. I think it's impossible to generalize.

---

I think there is a large scene of people out there who present their bodies controversially, because it makes them feel pretty and sufficiently expressed. I also think it is easy to conclude that people present their bodies in this way because they are attention seeking, attracted to pain, or because they are expressing something broken in their internal environment. I suspect a good number of "freaks" count on their appearance to attract the interest of people who are either into the same things, or not so caught up in appearance that they judge parts of the person they have yet to become acquainted with.

There really isn't much difference between a person who constructs a controversial persona and a Drag Queen . The character is an exaggeration and challenges people to embrace the triviality of appearance, while we live in a world which puts so much stock in such insubstantial things.

"You were born naked and the rest is drag". - RuPaul

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Are you a weirdo? You seem like one of the most normal people I have ever met. My concept of normalcy is largely based on emotional intelligence. I don't care if you talk to crystals or even if you hoard giant reptiles in your basement, you are empathic and articulate, and that's normal to me.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I figure it's everyone's job to suspend judgement and refrain from making assumptions about people. So I am not responsible for the confusion if someone else thought I was "normal" because I wear normal clothes.

---

From our past conversations, you admit to being a quiet person who doesn't readily speak her mind when you are unsure of the company. So in a sense, you do have your own mechanisms for dealing with this problem, silence. If a person doesn't know your thoughts, they can't judge them or experience the shock of discovering you have a lot going on beneath the quiet exterior.

For some, the feeling of being quiet is restricting. They feel forced into silence by the complication of having to explain or apologize for the things they know are best not to express in those situations. Instead of adopting a quiet persona, some people adopt a challenging persona which displays their unconventional nature and deters those who would have difficulty discovering unconventionality behind a quiet or otherwise "normal" persona.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I'm more concerned with finding and expressing a personal aesthetic that feels right to me.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
And I think it would be impossible for me to signal my eccentricities to people, anyway. What could I wear that will warn them that I don't celebrate most holidays or call myself a Democrat or Republican?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
And you're over there thinking, "But what kind of Venus conjunct Neptune person are you, being so finicky?!"

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Actually a bit relieved that you didn't want to read it. =)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
"The fear you had as a male, of secretly being a female, was never going to go away unless you became a female." This was passed on as irrefutable Truth. Is that true? Because from my personal experience, it can go away.

---

Some people commit suicide though and to those people they feel they have exhausted all their options for relief of their troubles. An acquaintance of mine dated a very young guy named Tony. Tony was cute, but his personality was overly eager and for someone not particularly intellectual, Tony was too argumentative about things he had never researched or experienced.

Several years after knowing Tony, he ended up living in a house I shared with a couple other friends. He had a history of suicide attempts, but because Tony was always so dramatic and a bit fake, everyone assumed they were cries for attention. Tony eventually attempted again and the owner of the house kicked him out (after we checked him into the hospital). Tony's former partner was living in Maine and invited him to come live with him while he got on his feet. He moved out to Maine and seemed to progress very well. He got the quickest job he could find, purchased a car with is first couple pay checks, purchased a shot gun with his next few paychecks, immediately drove out into the forest and committed suicide.

It became apparent that Tony's "progression" was due to his resolution on successfully killing his self. His former partner said he seemed happy and fine before he did it. This experience opened my eyes to how differently our brains are wired. I'm willing to believe that just because I see a rational path to changing my perceptions of my body or situation, that not everyone is coming from a similar perspective. The universe MUST LEARN! and I believe such intense experiences and convictions are the universe hard at work, gettin it's experience on. I think for some people it's possible that is an irrefutable truth.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Interestingly, most of the trans women I've seen are well done-up, and they talk about early desires to put on lacey stuff, makeup, and dresses. I get the impression they did not switch genders just so they can look like 90% of the moms pushing strollers at the mall; it's like they really want to go all-out for the girly-girl look. Which makes me wonder: is this common among trans women because they feel like they need all these accessories to "pass," or was their attraction to that stuff part of the root of their desire to change over in the first place? Can it be accurately said that they didn't merely want to become women, they wanted to become more like divas? And if we lived in a society where everyone, male and female, dressed the same, they wouldn't have felt the same desire to transition? How central was clothing in their decision-making process? These are the things I wonder about.

---

It reminds me of a cartoon called Invader Zim. It's about an alien who comes to earth, on a mission to figure out how to conquer it. While he is here, he takes on a human persona, but a conspiracy theorist in his 8th grade class suspects he is an alien. In an attempt to seem "more human" he sneaks around the school stealing random organs from the students and staff. By the end of the cartoon he is basically a big blobby bag of organs and when asked by the conspiracy theorist why, Zim says "More organs, means more human".

I could definitely see your points above applying to some people's situations, but I wouldn't consider it the rule.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
What a sales pitch! Gosh, if only they sold T at Whole Foods! =D

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I can't help wondering if anything less drastic than an all-out sex change could be as therapeutic as a sex change. Not because I find sex change odious, but because for every problem I am always wondering about all possible solutions. And here, if the problem seems to be originating in the mind, I do see extra potential for healing through the mind, and get a little upset if that approach is rejected out of hand as insensitive...which, so far, it seems to be. I don't understand that.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
It gets better, though!

I noticed a lot of gay people find life easier once they get out of school. I am not the biggest fan of conventional schooling, as you know.

---

This "it gets better" video is from a gay rapper named Cazwell and though his advice is dangerous, it is a more realistic video. He especially has a point about gay guys being prayed on because they are expected not to fight back. Cazwell If more gay men were interested in violence, straight men would be fuc*ed lol. But the fact that our reputation is pacifistic and creative I think says a lot about human evolution.

I hope all has been well with you =)

==========================================================================================================

quote:

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Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
the puns kill me... like literally I wanna faint, I hate puns lmfao! (don't let that stop u guys, of course)

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posted December 12, 2012 08:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
the puns kill me... like literally I wanna faint, I hate puns lmfao! (don't let that stop u guys, of course)

---

Faint?

posted December 14, 2012 08:11 PM            

Today we got a new kitten for my Sag son's birthday, and she is super cute. Picture to follow eventually. She's curled up against my leg right now...we're bonding. >^.^<

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Did Somebody Say SLOTHS?

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AWWW! =)

I understand her love of sloth babies!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I've got mushroom in my heart for all the joy each punkin bring. Though Scorp may be quick to turnip his nose, (insisting we are bound to make a mango crazy) I'm not willing to squash this just yet. I mean look at all this creativity, we really are a fruitful pear. I think it's best if we ride these currants to the end.

---

LOL!!!!!

Did a mushroom raisin your heart? Well, you are a funguy, after all. That rascallion Red is probably green with envy because you are a sage, and maybe he secretly pines for your puns. Who wood'nt? He should turn over a new leaf.

Com,post more please. =)

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
On one side you have a well constructed scenario and on the other side, a complete contrast, the abyss of the unknown. Eventually the structure must disperse. It is the anticipation for Uranus to strike and such old karma. When Uranus finally does drop in, I think people with breathe a sigh of relief. =)

---

I love that. Do you ever write poetry? If so, do you ever admit it to people who you know for sure are going to ask you to provide some samples for them to exclaim over (like me)?

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Before my parents had me, my dad used to drink and it made him a much more calm and agreeable man. He was gentle, creative, adventurous, concerned about making all the kids happy, etc... Right before I was born he quit drinking and got heavily into church.

---

My father was also an alcoholic (what is it with the Irish??) and also quit before I was born. But he was always religious, before and after drinking, and he was always relatively kind and fair.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
To add to this, my sister's are my mom's kids and my brother is my dad's kid. So all my siblings are half blood related to me. They have additional memories and genetic traits from their absent parents which further estrange them from me.

---

Sooo sad. I get the feeling like your family is like some random, short-lived accident, in a stream of other family accidents. No wonder you don't remember much...it's like you would be the keeper of the memories that everyone else just wanted to forget and move past, anyway. Or try and change your perceptions to conform with their own. Did you feel pressure not to bring things up from your past, with your parents and siblings? It must be frustrating having them so close geographically and so distant mentally.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I don't know if it was intentional or just lazy, but my mother never told me, "don't act that way".

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Did you like this about her? I appreciate the fact that my parents guided me, and they insisted that I have good manners. So I do the same for my kids, understanding I might hurt their feelings if I criticize, but figuring it's better if they hear it from me than someone who doesn't love them.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
What is "natural"?

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Yes, it's all relative. But let's just say that "natural" means "unmodified": ie, the more one modifies, the less natural their appearance is, and the more it becomes art, (or artificial, as some would say.)

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I also think it is easy to conclude that people present their bodies in this way because they are attention seeking, attracted to pain, or because they are expressing something broken in their internal environment.

---

Some are, I'll bet.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
I suspect a good number of "freaks" count on their appearance to attract the interest of people who are either into the same things, or not so caught up in appearance that they judge parts of the person they have yet to become acquainted with.

---

It's possible that the freaks are more judgmental. They may be dressing to pre-sift people into the "cool" ones who go along with freakery and the "judgmental" ones who don't.

It might make them happier to take the high road and overlook the baseness in others, instead of speaking directly to it. Instead of having one's appearance say, "You probably won't like me because you are probably caught up in appearances. If you don't like me, f*** you, I don't want to talk to you anyway," it would be nicer for everyone if one's appearance said, "Hello, I love and accept both myself and you as you are."

Which, by the way, is what the Buddhists' orange robes say to me.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Hehe I have a suspicion that your idea of normal is also somewhat abnormal.

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Did I offend you at all by saying you are normal? I didn't mean to say you are average...you must know that!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
From our past conversations, you admit to being a quiet person who doesn't readily speak her mind when you are unsure of the company. So in a sense, you do have your own mechanisms for dealing with this problem, silence. If a person doesn't know your thoughts, they can't judge them or experience the shock of discovering you have a lot going on beneath the quiet exterior.

---

That's somewhat true...but they can see plain enough that I am mysterious and have a lot going on beneath the surface, because I offer glimpses of it. I do it deliberately and dramatically...would else would you expect from Leo rising opposing Aquarius Mercury person? =)

Often, people are startled by my revelations and won't look any further into it. I take that to mean, they disagree with me or don't want to confront me. And I'm not keen on "shoving it down their throats," either. So a lot of my relationships have this stalemate stuck in them, where the person doesn't want to hear me, and I don't want to force them to listen. Like my husband knows I'm very interested in astrology but never asks me one question about it. He says he wants us to be closer, but there is this "third rail" of my New Age beliefs that he never wants to go near.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Instead of adopting a quiet persona, some people adopt a challenging persona which displays their unconventional nature and deters those who would have difficulty discovering unconventionality behind a quiet or otherwise "normal" persona.

---

I guess the reality is, there is a split between "conventional" and "unconventional" attitudes...no matter how much I want to resist that fact, because it seems the split is deliberately crafted, artificial, and full of inconsistencies on both sides of the fence.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
And for some people that is fangs, stretched earlobes and a tuna-fish-head hat.

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And to some people that looks gorgeous. o_O

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Wear a Capricorn symbol necklace, dye a blue streak in your hair, wear essential oils.

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Cognitive dissonance. If a 36 year-old woman sat across from me at the mall with all of the above, I would be thinking, "Hey, I wonder why that Sadge girl is wearing a Cap necklace, is that a joke... or maybe a present for her Cap friend that's coming to meet her?" =)

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
So, "That is ugly and makes me feel uneasy" is a perfectly rational reason to not pursue interests in others for strictly aesthetic reasons.

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Glad you think so. =) I guess you are the same way?

It's not so much the ugliness, but when I was single, I was looking for signs of dependability, trustworthiness, and the ability for a guy to eventually get a "real job." And I didn't see eyebrow piercings as a sign of promise. I think if the guy had already been established with some kind of income, especially if his work was interesting, like if he were a chef...AND he had an eyebrow piercing, I wouldn't have cared.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I have an obscenely high pain tolerance, I can essentially shut off my body's pain panic and stash it away as just another feeling.

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Did you always have that or does it come from self-hypnosis or training or....?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
He got the quickest job he could find, purchased a car with is first couple pay checks, purchased a shot gun with his next few paychecks, immediately drove out into the forest and committed suicide...This experience opened my eyes to how differently our brains are wired.

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Horrible!!! =(

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I'm willing to believe that just because I see a rational path to changing my perceptions of my body or situation, that not everyone is coming from a similar perspective.

---

Me, too, but since everything is truly in flux, it's hard to know how things will play out, and how to respond most appropriately to our loved ones' needs. I do think that if someone is suicidal, that ought to be taken very seriously, and whoever loves a suicidal person well never assume they are just doing it for attention.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I could definitely see your points above applying to some people's situations, but I wouldn't consider it the rule.

---

"First rule is...there are no rules." I think that's a line from Grease. And it's what I'm thinking now.

I'm glad you could see how my points may apply with some people. I never want to seem like I know more about people than they know about themselves, but I do want to understand what is going on psychologically in some of these trends.

I mentioned OCD because the way some M2F people behaved, prior to making the switch, reminds me of it. It's like they seriously couldn't get the thought of women's clothing out of their heads. At the same time, they say they were afraid of that part of themselves that liked it. Just like OCD people are driven by fear ("If I don't wash my hands three times and say a Hail Mary I'll get sick") and attraction ("I love soap and cleanliness!")

So this got me thinking of how phobias and obsessions are often interlinked. People who are afraid of snakes, for example, actually invest a lot of negative energy in the whole idea of snakes, and will be the first to spot one in a movie, on a field, at the pet store. They are both afraid and mesmerized...but must kind of like them, or they wouldn't have their eyes always peeled to see them.

And eating disorders have a similar thing going on, "I'm so scared of being fat that the only thing that makes me feel like I'm not afraid of food is eating it!" It's like people get scared stiff and never quite regain their flexibility until they deal with the fear, either by "giving in" or sublimating it or forgetting. Like my friend's boyfriend was so terrified of violence when he was young that he grew up to make horror films and considered himself cured.

I'm afraid of heights, because I have never fully trusted myself not to deliberately jump. I've always been this way. I can remember being five years old, standing by the railing at a stadium, thinking "I might fall!" Then I reasoned that the only way I could fall is if I actually hoisted my leg over the railing and tried to fall. So I concluded that that must be my bigger fear. And time after time, we went to the stadium, and the standing-at-the-railing thing became like a ritual, cementing the whole crazy fear apparatus in my head. Later we went to Niagara Falls...where I was a quiet emotional wreck. When I visited the Grand Canyon in my late teens, I sat down about ten feet from the edge and scooched over on my butt so I was sitting the whole time I approached the cliff. To my friends, this was "ridiculously scared of heights." To me, this was "I don't trust myself not to jump." To this day, if I am on the second story of the mall, I walk several feet from where you could look over to the bottom floor. It's OCD of me to do so.

At the same time, I have always loved mountains and have read a lot of books about mountain climbing. My husband is a former hardcore mountain climber/ice climber. When I married him, his apartment was full of paintings of mountains: "This is the Matterhorn, this is Cathedral Ledge, this is Yellowstone." If I had another daughter, her name would have been Freya, which is the name of an especially foreboding peak in the Arctic.

Altogether, I just have a lot of fear, fascination, attraction, emotional investment in heights and high places. Probably more than your average person (I didn't see anyone else practically crawling to the edge of the Grand Canyon.) And I think, but I can't be sure, that it's rooted in my early experiences of spending a lot of time visualizing jumping off a precipice. I pictured it so clearly it's like I lived it and that set in motion a chain of emotionally-charged experiences that would otherwise have been almost banal.

What's this got to do with being transgender? I just see parallels in how early fears reverberate for a long time. Trans women on YouTube tend to remember one early experience of feeling thrilled to dress like a girl. It was like an emotional supernova because it had that volatile fear-attraction mix. So I wonder how what would have happened if there was no fear involved. If putting on a dress was totally normal. Would the experience have played out the same way?

Only musings aloud, and I hope they don't come across as trivializing anyone's struggles or interpretation of their own lives.

quote:

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
He especially has a point about gay guys being prayed on because they are expected not to fight back.
If more gay men were interested in violence, straight men would be fuc*ed lol. But the fact that our reputation is pacifistic and creative I think says a lot about human evolution.

---

Yes, good point, and I LOVED that he fought back!

It is nice to think of how gay men fit into our culture as artists and comforters of women =)

posted December 20, 2012 04:40 AM            

How is your winter going? Ready for the end of the world tomorrow? Hope you packed all your bear hats. I'm all set and ready for it to be over. This next year is set to be an eventful one for me, so I am gnawing my nails in anticipation. HEhe

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Today we got a new kitten for my Sag son's birthday, and she is super cute. Picture to follow eventually.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
Did a mushroom raisin your heart? Well, you are a funguy, after all. That rascallion Red is probably green with envy because you are a sage, and maybe he secretly pines for your puns. Who wood'nt? He should turn over a new leaf.

Com,post more please. =)

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I love that. Do you ever write poetry? If so, do you ever admit it to people who you know for sure are going to ask you to provide some samples for them to exclaim over (like me)?

---

erm anyway...segue aside, my poems were horribly dark, rhyme-y, and vampire related (as it fit my persona at that time). The later stuff was more existential and cathartic, which is also not very enjoyable to read lol. I believe one involved my family and friends covering me in lube, squeezing me through a tube, and singing "Welcome to Our World", while bludgeoning me with angry cats.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Did you feel pressure not to bring things up from your past, with your parents and siblings?

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With my dad, any time you bring up the past he just says he doesn't remember and apologizes. Which is frustrating, because it doesn't validate the experience. It's like confronting your rapist, having him pat you on the back, and say, "wow that sounds like a crappy experience, I'm sorry you had to go through that".

With my mom, her eyes glaze over and she just stops paying attention until you are done talking. If you bully her into a response (which is her way of remaining the victim), she denies any of it ever happened and makes up stories about how much she sacrificed and how great of a mom she was.

Recently I was driving around with my step-father and he mentioned that his brother can't forgive their father for being victimized by their mother. The conversation evolved into this weird thing that sounded kind of like a crappy apology for his actions throughout my life. He ended it with, "I don't blame my mom for being the way she was. I don't see a need to confront her either. It happened, and nothing can be done about it, so I move on". To which I responded, "That's all well and good, and frankly it is the best way to deal with the situation for your self. Isn't life about learning though? What do you and your mother learn by never facing the poor decisions that were made? How does her spirit grow if she is never placed in a position to face the harm she has inflicted on others?". He was not a fan of my logic.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
It must be frustrating having them so close geographically and so distant mentally.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
Did you like this about her? I appreciate the fact that my parents guided me, and they insisted that I have good manners.

---

I think at a young age it contributed to my Sun/Neptune identity issues. I was always told, "you can do whatever you want". I was naturally very polite, and would usually tell on myself if I ever did something bad. I just think she thought I was auto-pilot parenting and when it came time for me to really need that stability and support, she wasn't available anymore. I guess it was bitter-sweet it helped me experience concepts like groundlessness, which people often spend years trying to experience. I don't think I would change that aspect of my upbringing if given the choice.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
So I do the same for my kids, understanding I might hurt their feelings if I criticize, but figuring it's better if they hear it from me than someone who doesn't love them.

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I know she takes it personally often (because Cancer, Moon in Aries take being told "no" like a shot to the face), but I make sure to be encouraging. It ****** me off, because it makes me feel like her "mean old uncle". I go off to my mom about how much she is setting up my niece for some serious rude awakenings in the future, but she thinks providing boundaries equates to not providing her an enjoyable childhood. I also think she does it because it makes my nieces like my mom more than my sister and guarantees they will be a handful for my sister to deal with alone. Mom's a peach.

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Originally posted by Faith:
Yes, it's all relative. But let's just say that "natural" means "unmodified":.........Only musings aloud, and I hope they don't come across as trivializing anyone's struggles or interpretation of their own lives.

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I am probably not the best person to ask anyway, because I just don't have enough experience being a tranny or an ultra-freak.

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Originally posted by Faith:
Did I offend you at all by saying you are normal? I didn't mean to say you are average...you must know that!

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Originally posted by Faith:
Cognitive dissonance. If a 36 year-old woman sat across from me at the mall with all of the above, I would be thinking, "Hey, I wonder why that Sadge girl is wearing a Cap necklace, is that a joke... or maybe a present for her Cap friend that's coming to meet her?" =)

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Originally posted by Faith:
Glad you think so. =) I guess you are the same way?

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Originally posted by Faith:
Did you always have that or does it come from self-hypnosis or training or....?

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I found these links from another thread, I enjoyed it and thought you would too.

http://astrofix.net/2010/05/21/north-node-and-south-node-rulers/#.UNLb2ayxmDo
http://astrofix.net/2010/03/31/the-north-node-and-the-south-node/
http://astrofix.net/2011/01/14/north-node-in-scorpio-and-south-node-in-tau rus-by-house/#.UNLcH6yxmDo

posted December 22, 2012 10:43 PM            

Do you get tired of posting here ever? I'm getting a little sheepish about the great length of this thread...if you want to give it a rest, let me know. Otherwise you'll keep getting babble from me.

Tonight we went to an amusement park that was all lit up beautifully for Christmas. My daughter took me for a ride on the bumper cars and, being a typical boastful mom, I have to say...I think she could be a pro race car driver, she is SO nimble on the bumper cars. Time after time she astounds everyone, her timing is almost supernaturally good... it's like she's psychically figuring out who's going to move where before they even go there (8H Scorpio sun.) She's had this ability since she was little and whizzing around in pigtails.

We weren't at the park for long because it was freezing, and the wind was merciless.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Ready for the end of the world tomorrow?

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This apocalypse was so boring...all we got was heavy rain pelting the windows all night. =( How was it for you?

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Aww why no pictures? I need kitten pictures or I may die.

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Don't! <3

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I'm glad you haven't started tiring guava bunch of produce puns. Some would be driven nuts by now. I think it's grape, you get my sense of hummus....

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Hoe that was so punny!! Olive for bean acorn ball, and rye jokes give me a belly acre, I loofah so much! The fennel have to stop eventually but I could dew this till the cows come home.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I stopped though around 25, I never feel like words do my feelings justice as much as painting.

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Your art is incredible...for what it's worth, I've gotten the same kind of feeling from your writing as your pictures. To me, it's like a bright, deep, mystical awareness coming through.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I believe one involved my family and friends covering me in lube, squeezing me through a tube, and singing "Welcome to Our World", while bludgeoning me with angry cats.

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This was before all the drugs?

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
It's like confronting your rapist, having him pat you on the back, and say, "wow that sounds like a crappy experience, I'm sorry you had to go through that".

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Reminds me of talking to my sister, whose soul is made of Jell-O, and who communicates as if she is deeply asleep: one second, she means one thing, and then she contradicts herself and introduces a new lie the next second. Lies and truth have equal weight with her.

The communication with your whole family seems to suck entirely. =( I wonder what in your chart corresponds to it? Gemini in your 3H opposing your sun and squaring your moon, does that count for something?

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
The conversation evolved into this weird thing that sounded kind of like a crappy apology for his actions throughout my life.

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"weird thing that sounded kind of like a crappy apology"...doesn't sound too satisfying. But I think it's great that you have taken the high road and can get along somewhat peaceably with your family despite their shortcomings.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I think we caught each other off guard and our reactions were both instinctive.

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Hard for me to put my reaction to this into words...I actually have too many thoughts at once, none of which are especially interesting. 'Just want to mention that I'm wondering if your SN is conjunct your mom's moon. The "breakaway" issues with that aspect seem really difficult, from what I've read.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I guess it was bitter-sweet it helped me experience concepts like groundlessness, which people often spend years trying to experience. I don't think I would change that aspect of my upbringing if given the choice.

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Well I wouldn't want to repeat your mother's methods but I think creativity thrives on freedom, and you've done wonders with what you were given. I had physical freedom as a child but all these internal shackles from Catholicism.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I also think she does it because it makes my nieces like my mom more than my sister and guarantees they will be a handful for my sister to deal with alone. Mom's a peach.

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Sorry for laughing but yeah...'sounds like a peach!

I realize there are emotionally intelligent Cancer women but when that goes amuck the results are like an emotional tsunami on the whole family.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
I am probably not the best person to ask anyway, because I just don't have enough experience being a tranny or an ultra-freak

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No hard feelings, we can move away from any topic...and maybe I will find some other ultra-freaks to have a transgender armchair psychology pow-wow with someday.

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
My Scorpio Venus 8H tends to be interested in ugly.

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Is it interested in everything, is that the point? Or do you kind of prefer ugly...? With my 8H moon I seem to take everything in without filters but not want to actually touch everyone's slime.

Tangent: I noticed that lots of Scorpios make a fuss about honesty, they want everyone to tell the absolute truth all the time. Yet they themselves are secretive. As I work on my Scorpio NN issues, I realize that I'm being pulled in two directions~ on the one hand, I want to lay everything out with gruesome detail, because that's really what I'm looking for from others, and it's only fair that I put myself out there first. On the other hand, to think of myself as hermetically sealed off from the world is quite comfy; I'm not sure if that's a sign of NN attainment or NN derangement.

Do you see what I mean about that paradox?

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Originally posted by Xiiro:
Even when my baby toe got cut off, I was surprisingly calm.

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Toe amputation stories welcome here! Especially if it was a sixth toe.

Thanks for the links about my nodal axis, some phrases in the last one were encouraging...for example: "Rather than displaying outer calm, turning inward and letting yourself become deeply involved with getting to the root of issues and problems." I've been working on that. =)

posted December 23, 2012 01:40 AM            

If squares and opposites are associated with Taurus and Cancer, why are they "inharmonious"? Is there a correlation? Do opposites carry Taurus energy or is are the two related simply because of the magic number (in this case two)?