posted July 20, 2012 02:55 PM            

I'm going to put away the whole notion of therapeutic sex, there is more sadness to it than anything. Even thinking of happily accomodating nymphs paired with ugly, shy people who just don't get enough...contemplating it isn't my cup of tea after all. Now I've realized that!

Xiiro, I'm with you about the healing power of nature. What's your take on allopathic medicine? Because if I have any phobia, it's the fear of regular doctors and hospitals. I just cannot stand the thought of being at the mercy of someone who claims authority over my body, ie "we're going to hook up this IV and tell you about the contents later." Or, "We have your test results but please come into our scary consultation room first so we can stare ominously at you before revealing your fate, which has been statistically rendered and is virtually etched in stone." Now that is extreme vulnerability, to me.

All I can say is, wish I lived in Cali where the alternative medicine scene is better developed.

Ceres: LOL at you being brainy smurf, but I actually think, given my limited interactions with you, that it's great. Don't STFU, please. My Ceres is sextile Saturn (about 1 degree orb.) Saturn already seems to be about sustenance so maybe Ceres is like its little helper elf, carrying the torch even longer than Saturn could. Obviously I have no idea, and resort to quaint imagery to fudge my way trough astrological discussions. Then again, other people at LL do it too. If they can, why not me?

Insults: Anyone who would insult you is a caveman. Hard to believe they still exist to this day!

Gender issues: Recently in the news, a fellow went to the hospital for kidney stones and found out that he had ovaries, and his bloodwork came back as "female." Now I have been telling my Christian friends they should never judge what they don't understand, especially when God made biologically androgynous people.

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What I seek in women tend to be traits I would like to see in my self.

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I like that you can gab like a girl I love when men can have long discussions with women. Typically, when my friends and I get together, the men and women separate. My one friend's husband is always hanging out with women, though, because he's loquacious and doesn't go for the deer hunting stories. It's so fun getting his take on everything.

My dad was like that, he could hold his own with a hen party just fine. I really like that attribute...I guess biker guys feel the same way about the occasional girl who is as tough as them. It's refreshing to have a cross-over.

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We create our own mannerisms, language, art, style, and associations, which reinforce our feeling of cohesion and tribal belonging.

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Do you think that can be a lure, drawing people to the gay lifestyle? Do you think some people become gay cerebrally or as a way to fit in with that crowd?

From my own distance, I can just see the appeal. Not in becoming a lesbian, because they don't have the same mannerisms and style, but being a gay man. Then you get to dress well, have your super clean apartment, be trusted by women, and so on. Frankly gay men seem more civilized than straight men, on the whole, in several areas. I don't know why that is.

Homesteading: It's always been a dream to become self-sustaining, go off grid, get solar panels or a windmill, can the tomatoes and the whole nine yards.

But it won't happen on that property; a few years after we bought it, gas drilling companies moved in on the area, and now we are surrounded by gas-leased parcels. We see no point building the place up when it may be a superfund site in a few years.

But maybe not, ya never know.

Do you homestead or want to?

posted July 20, 2012 06:00 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
What's your take on allopathic medicine?

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Originally posted by Faith:
My Ceres is sextile Saturn (about 1 degree orb.) Saturn already seems to be about sustenance so maybe Ceres is like its little helper elf, carrying the torch even longer than Saturn could.

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Originally posted by Faith:
Do you think that can be a lure, drawing people to the gay lifestyle? Do you think some people become gay cerebrally or as a way to fit in with that crowd?

From my own distance, I can just see the appeal. Not in becoming a lesbian, because they don't have the same mannerisms and style, but being a gay man. Then you get to dress well, have your super clean apartment, be trusted by women, and so on. Frankly gay men seem more civilized than straight men, on the whole, in several areas. I don't know why that is.

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I don't think the allure of a specific set of stereotypes, is enough to make a person choose to participate in a sexual counter culture. Gay people dress up like cow boys, drink beer, accumulate a gut, and have rodeos every year, while straight men dress in tight jeans, spray tan, live for a productive trip to the mall, and get their eyebrows waxed. Neither have to pay for those interests by compromising their sexuality.

On the other hand, gay people come out of the closet after spending several years in heterosexual marriages. And there are occasions where gay men meet a special woman who they love enough to marry. I think for the most part, there are too many negatives to being a legitimate member of a sexual oriented community, or a gender community, or a specific ethnic community. These groups gain notoriety from their struggles.

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Originally posted by Faith:
Do you homestead or want to?

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posted July 20, 2012 10:16 PM            

So cool about your property in Hawaii. Best wishes for an incredible experience there!

Thanks for your thoughts on doctors, I guess I will have to go to one some day...sighhhh.... now that you mention it. Somehow I was hoping you might say, "Stay away. They are witch doctors in disguise. Bad bad." And I could always say, "I once knew a great psychic who came back from the dead to warn me about doctors. Therefore, I cannot go." Sounds better than, I'm scared.

Thanks for your insights into gay culture. My brother (the Scorpio) has a lot of gay friends and people have wondered if he is gay. I think he is actually just sensitive. He's married, too, so I think he is sincerely straight.

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Gay people dress up like cow boys, drink beer, accumulate a gut, and have rodeos every year, while straight men dress in tight jeans, spray tan, live for a productive trip to the mall, and get their eyebrows waxed.

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Totally hilarious...spray tan!

K, so my last question before I stop my interview here is, can you please tell me how you would interpret my 1 degree Gemini Ceres sextile to 0 degree Leo Saturn?

Thank you!

posted July 21, 2012 12:13 AM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
can you please tell me how you would interpret my 1 degree Gemini Ceres sextile to 0 degree Leo Saturn?

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You are also skilled with an ability to communicate with people in a way which nourishes them. This skill likely comes from having to learn how to speak and understand other people's languages in order to get them to spit out exactly what they need. When you are at a loss for a way to help, you may resort to conversation, research, and inquisitiveness as your default form of nourishment. If your Ceres falls into your 11th house, there may even be an altruistic underlying cause behind your interest in communication. You may feel learning about and communicating constructively with humanity, is the cure to much of the world's problems. Your friends may also rely on you to help them talk out their problems or vent their frustrations while you listen.

Negative side - Being ignored is unacceptable and can be seen as inhumane. If you feel ignored or cut off from communication, there is a possibility of falling into a state of just not caring (which can drop automatically after being communicated with again). There can also be a negative tendency to dare one's self to do things which could harm the nourishment of others or even their self. The intent is not generally as malicious as it is mischievous.

When this Ceres is sextile Saturn, your talent for mercurial attention-to-detail helps in establishing strong bonds. You have a curious and investigative nature when it comes to preparing or working toward a goal. There can also be a talent for writing. It could be important to keep aware of one's own actions when one's eye is on a prize and not become so focused that other things fall under the wheels. Your ability to play and be serious at the same time is a gift. Cultivate your humor and your desire to retain and learn from the information you collect as well as your drive to go out and experience all the things you think about. Just letting your wheels spin can result in boredom and eventually, poor decisions.

I also have a 0 degree Saturn (in Virgo). 0 is a very odd degree. It feels for me, almost like Saturn-lite.

posted July 21, 2012 09:09 AM            

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Ceres on its own in Gemini, indicates a person who is nourished by communication.

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Yes. I forgot to mention Ceres is in my 10H, Saturn in the 12H. I briefly worked as a writer at the media department of a cancer center.

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If someone is sad, it may drive you insane when they refuse to communicate what is wrong.

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It happens rarely, but yes to that.

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You ask for very little in your interactions with others, they need to be aware though that if they have expectations of you, they must be expressed (and preferably in a clear and straightforward manner). This is how you are nourished in order to invest your talents appropriately, by communication.

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To a certain extent, I think I can anticipate expectations, and don't need people to communicate with me via words. But yes, I am nourished when people are good at conveying everything verbally, which gives me the advantage of being able to respond better. My husband is excellent at articulating his position; he's frustrated that I can't match him. I tend to think, "You either understand where I am coming from and want to help, or don't understand and then I don't even want your help."

I struggle with communication in general, Pluto in the 3H makes me withhold a lot, and the 8H moon gives no advantage. But I do seem to have a knack for listening and then asking things with the intention of helping people as best I can. That's what I'm geared towards.

As you said:

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You are also skilled with an ability to communicate with people in a way which nourishes them. This skill likely comes from having to learn how to speak and understand other people's languages in order to get them to spit out exactly what they need. When you are at a loss for a way to help, you may resort to conversation, research, and inquisitiveness as your default form of nourishment.

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Bingo. That is so true.

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Negative side - Being ignored is unacceptable and can be seen as inhumane. If you feel ignored or cut off from communication, there is a possibility of falling into a state of just not caring (which can drop automatically after being communicated with again). There can also be a negative tendency to dare one's self to do things which could harm the nourishment of others or even their self. The intent is not generally as malicious as it is mischievous.

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I am never ignored, because I am Leo rising and won't stand for it. Ha!

Actually if I go into any new group...it's like I know what my value is, in conversation. So people might ignore me and I'll be thinking, "Eventually, we'll talk." It actually doesn't bother me to be ignored because I've never had a situation where it lasts. I tend to make friends with everyone. Which could be a function of Venus-Neptune, though.

But as for the daring to harm oneself or others...I can be self-destructive. I don't know that I ever knowingly harm others. I'll have to think about it.

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Cultivate your humor and your desire to retain and learn from the information you collect as well as your drive to go out and experience all the things you think about. Just letting your wheels spin can result in boredom and eventually, poor decisions.

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Wonderful advice, I'm going to write it down in my little notebook.

'Don't really know how to thank you for your time and insight, but it means a lot to me. Good luck with your ongoing astrology work, I love reading your findings here.

See you around!

posted July 27, 2012 07:20 AM            

Do you believe that aliens are present on earth? 'Ever get a sense of them?

Very curious,
Faith

posted July 27, 2012 07:48 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
Do you believe that aliens are present on earth? 'Ever get a sense of them?

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This is one of those things that my brain has pondered over and over again. There were a lot of interesting studies done about why aliens would take an interest in Earth and what they would do once they got here. I'm not convinced that aliens would pretend to be human or get involved with human dramas (except maybe to pose as a ruling class and make us their slaves, though what aliens would need with earth dollars, I have no idea). I'm not even fully convinced that, should aliens show up, they would approach us in a physical way.

As technology progresses, it seems our ideals of advancement have a lot to do with abandoning the laws of physics which are useful at our level of conscious interaction. An alien race capable of reaching earth, would have to master an "extra-physical" grasp of technology and would likely walk around and interact with earth in between the cracks of reality. One quite interesting study suggested that if aliens came to Earth, they could be more interested in animals like whales, dolphins, and certain primates. The theory is based on the complexity of developed language among those species, compared to human language.

At one point when I was repairing all the damage done to my mind, I would see beings walking around me, observing me, and occasionally poking me with objects. There was a very matrix-y feeling about the whole thing, like I was being observed someplace else while my mind was being convinced that our reality was real. For my own sanity, I had to just take a "well I guess I'll find out when I die, but for now I choose not to invest energy in that experience" perspective.

I think the best conclusion I can come to for your question is, there are a lot of things we don't know about reality. It is certainly possible, and in some cases more likely, that "beings" which we would consider alien, exist within, without, and among us. I have never personally had experiences to support that view (aside from the aliens who lived in my head lol). Consider though something as casual as DNA. DNA uses physical bodies to become more and more advanced or adaptable to its environment. We don't know where life came from, but the physical core of life's advancement is DNA. It is certainly possible that DNA is an alien being, which influences it's host body down to its most intricate emotional and perceptive quirks. All for the purpose of traveling and evolving through the universe.

posted July 27, 2012 10:22 PM            

Better than I hoped for, even!

I asked because my son was reading a book on the Bermuda Triangle yesterday. I picked it up, and I have to say, it was convincingly written. The author explored the possible role of aliens and UFO sightings, relative to the area.

So...I said to myself, "Gosh, I have never believed in aliens landing on earth. The evidence I've seen is pathetic. But maybe Xiiro met one before on one of his travels to alternate realities. I will ask him!"

Sure enough..

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At one point when I was repairing all the damage done to my mind, I would see beings walking around me, observing me, and occasionally poking me with objects.

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Thank you for sharing. That's exactly what I was wondering about. Also I have to wonder about ghosts, poltergeists...basically everything that is supernatural...I guess there could be an alien element?

It's fun to think about.

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As technology progresses, it seems our ideals of advancement have a lot to do with abandoning the laws of physics which are useful at our level of conscious interaction. An alien race capable of reaching earth, would have to master an "extra-physical" grasp of technology and would likely walk around and interact with earth in between the cracks of reality.

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That is so cool. Quantum physicists are now saying that atoms can be at two places at one time...that the universe is halographic...all this stuff that makes inter-galactic "travel" seem possible, but in that extra-physical way. I love the word extra-physical, did you just make that up? It's so good.

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One quite interesting study suggested that if aliens came to Earth, they could be more interested in animals like whales, dolphins, and certain primates. The theory is based on the complexity of developed language among those species, compared to human language.

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Makes *perfect* sense.

Thinking of how elephants were even presumed to communicate by telepathy before it was discovered that their rumbling carries over great distances.

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It is certainly possible that DNA is an alien being, which influences it's host body down to its most intricate emotional and perceptive quirks. All for the purpose of traveling and evolving through the universe.

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Now that is just brilliant. I can go to sleep happy because someone said something brilliant today and I got to hear it.

posted July 28, 2012 01:36 AM            

Recently I have been watching technology and thinking, "When we create synthetic life, it will be programmed to look at us like we perceived gods and angels". At some point there will be no difference (other than perhaps chemical and method of assembly) between a human being and a synthetic being.

posted July 28, 2012 10:16 AM            

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At some point there will be no difference (other than perhaps chemical and method of assembly) between a human being and a synthetic being.

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Hmmm....I can see things evolving in that direction, but it's hard to fathom anything about what the world will look like, or what would become of the so-called "human spirit."

posted July 28, 2012 01:52 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
Hmmm....I can see things evolving in that direction, but it's hard to fathom anything about what the world will look like, or what would become of the so-called "human spirit."

Do you have any ideas along those lines?

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That answer is one of the more scary ones to embrace in my opinion (or possibly not scary at all lol). It is also one of the reasons I don't plan on making babies. Science Fiction is really one of the best resources for speculating the future of humanity. People rave about the age of Aquarius as an age of liberation and spiritual enlightenment, but Aquarius could (and seem to) be taking us in a very different direction.

The age of Pisces didn't bring unconditional love to the masses, it simply introduced the concept to humanity as a spiritual guideline. What the age of Pisces is ending with, is martyrdom for religious beliefs, mass isolationism, bigotry through exclusion, faith in dreamy ideals (like having the perfect body, the perfect relationship, the perfect job), Ignorance of physical health and nutrition, corporate greed through mass deception, the list goes on and on.

Aquarius rules electricity, technology, and the masses. It rules concepts like cyber-space and the ability to communicate one's microcosm to the masses (social networking). I could see the age of Aquarius leading to the integration of man with technology. Why be just a regular person, when you can be "enhanced"? There is another well argued theory, that the reason we are unable to discover life in the universe, is because at a specific point in the evolution of beings, they may turn inward instead of outward. The theory suggests there are planets all over with races of beings who have evolved to a point of just downloading their consciousness into cyber-space. Which reminds me of this pic a friend posted on facebook:

As a part-time animist, it would betray my beliefs to assume synthetic life is not living. The bodies of plants and animals are just organic versions of synthesized bodies. That includes the data which zips around our brains. This video says it all for me. This robot may be programmed, but it is programmed to choose its reaction based on its environment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYSmp3bjP_0

What if there is no such thing as the "human spirit" what if there is just the animating spirit within beings. If that is the case, then we had better stop being so frivolous with how we treat our technological creations (or here's a thought, stop making them all together, and enjoy the Earth as it is). Otherwise we could face all sorts of odd or icky evolutionary ends.

posted July 29, 2012 03:02 PM            

That robot is SO, so cute. It's just freaky how I can feel myself emoting towards it, just like I did with Gizmo when I was little. People can be dumb like that...which makes a good case for animism, I think.

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Science Fiction is really one of the best resources for speculating the future of humanity.

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Do you read science fiction? I haven't been able to get into any science fiction novel I've tried (there were two, one by Asimov and the other by Tad Williams.) But I love sci-fi movies and futuristic concepts. Maybe I will get into sci-fi when I'm older. Heck, I've been interested in sun sign astrology most of my life, but only learned how to read a natal chart last year! #Child-o-Saturn

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It rules concepts like cyber-space and the ability to communicate one's microcosm to the masses (social networking). I could see the age of Aquarius leading to the integration of man with technology. Why be just a regular person, when you can be "enhanced"?

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Another ten hour conversation I'd like to have with you, on that topic. I'll try and condense my current, small collection of thoughts rather than actually brainstorm, as I'd like, and write a manuscript that I would be too shy to ask you to read anyway. So, I present my small thoughts:

1) Thinking of how close we are to the point where people have something like memory device microchips or other implantable devices that interact with consciousness (not merely on a function/electrical impulse level, like pacemakers, cochlear implants and advanced prosthetics) so that genius is common. Then one wonders how wide the divide will be between the enhanced and the idiots, and how "brutish" the enhanced will be.

2) I've thought about how, if biology and technology combine, the focus might increasingly be on maintaining the resources needed for the survival of the technology.
I'm proud of myself for carrying a train of thought to that far-out endpoint.

3) Relative to that very funny pic you posted, does it even matter whether or not the technology is internal? iPhones, Blackberries, etc. are hand-sized and practically like a new appendage. And I think about how wireless communication is almost like the "materialization" of telepathy; if you video chat, what is really going on? Disembodied people interacting? Just to concentrate on the present scheme of things...it's already incredibly weird!

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There is another well argued theory, that the reason we are unable to discover life in the universe, is because at a specific point in the evolution of beings, they may turn inward instead of outward. The theory suggests there are planets all over with races of beings who have evolved to a point of just downloading their consciousness into cyber-space.

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Okay I'm a little confused by that...would you please elaborate? Is that like, the Akashic records? Is that our Oversoul or another one?

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As a part-time animist, it would betray my beliefs to assume synthetic life is not living. The bodies of plants and animals are just organic versions of synthesized bodies.

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Synthesized by what...I guess that's the Ultimate Question. (?)

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What if there is no such thing as the "human spirit" what if there is just the animating spirit within beings. If that is the case, then we had better stop being so frivolous with how we treat our technological creations (or here's a thought, stop making them all together, and enjoy the Earth as it is). Otherwise we could face all sorts of odd or icky evolutionary ends.

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Are you kind of a luddite? I am.

*Edited again

posted July 30, 2012 03:12 AM            

If you are deleting your messages because you don't like them then okay, but if you are deleting them because you think I don't like them, you are mistaken (how could I, they all get erased before I get to read them?).

=)

So... in response to what is left of your post hehe

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Originally posted by Faith:
That robot is SO, so cute. It's just freaky how I can feel myself emoting towards it, just like I did with Gizmo when I was little. People can be dumb like that...which makes a good case for animism, I think.

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Originally posted by Faith:
Do you read science fiction?

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Originally posted by Faith:
1) Thinking of how close we are to the point where people have something like memory device microchips or other implantable devices that interact with consciousness (not merely on a function/electrical impulse level, like pacemakers, cochlear implants and advanced prosthetics) so that genius is common. Then one wonders how wide the divide will be between the enhanced and the idiots, and how "brutish" the enhanced will be.

---

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Originally posted by Faith:
2) I've thought about how, if biology and technology combine, the focus might increasingly be on maintaining the resources needed for the survival of the technology.
I'm proud of myself for carrying a train of thought to that far-out endpoint.

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Originally posted by Faith:
3) Relative to that very funny pic you posted, does it even matter whether or not the technology is internal? iPhones, Blackberries, etc. are hand-sized and practically like a new appendage. And I think about how wireless communication is almost like the "materialization" of telepathy; if you video chat, what is really going on? Disembodied people interacting? Just to concentrate on the present scheme of things...it's already incredibly weird!

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What concerns me is the fact that the Age of Capricorn follows Aquarius, 2000 years of government HAha. Maybe it will be needed though after Aquarius goes buck wild.

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Originally posted by Faith:
Okay I'm a little confused by that...would you please elaborate? Is that like, the Akashic records? Is that our Oversoul or another one?

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Originally posted by Faith:
Synthesized by what...I guess that's the Ultimate Question.

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Originally posted by Faith:
Are you kind of a luddite? I am

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posted July 30, 2012 11:57 PM            

I've only delved into some of it so far because my day was crazy and I wasn't on the computer much. Also...I was so freaked out by the all-knowing laser story, I had to take a breather!

We are at our country house now, and the blueberries are past peak but still worth picking. (Just not a very "fruitful" yield...haha.) I took my little two year-old out today, and we soon heard this loud, big animal in the forest running towards us. So I grab my son and run, not knowing if it's a bear or what (we do have bears)...turns out it's just our neighbor's psycho pony on the loose again.

I have been outraged about that pony all day because he hangs around outside the door and bites you when you come out. Nice!

And you know what? I haven't been sleeping well because of the coyotes howling at the big damn moon right outside my window.

So, yeah, some "naturalist" I am.

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HAha wow, I wonder how long I could postpone replying before you eventually whittled this post down to just "Hi again!"

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LOL! Sometimes I will be writing a long post and one of my children will come in demanding my immediate attention for something that I know will take a long time. I won't have time to save my work, and I don't want to leave it accessible for the whole family, so I just hit "send" and cross my fingers hoping against hope that it's coherent.

In yesterday's case, my post was totally screwed up, but I didn't get back to the computer for a while to fix it...and even then, I got interrupted AGAIN!

Usually, I try and babble then pare everything down in one "session." So my highly-aspected Aquarius Mercury has its fun, I say what I want, then my NN Scorpio tendency kicks in..."REMEMBER! You're supposed to be secretive!"...and I whitewash a good portion of it. But sometimes it doesn't work out that way.

Now you know everything.

Except my thoughts on all these cool sci-fi concepts, which I will try and articulate tomorrow, barring altercations with ponies, kid catastrophes, moon madness...ie "real life" interfering.

Hope you have a great night!

posted July 31, 2012 10:03 AM            

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We are dipping our toes in the waters of a very deep ocean, where machines are given the freedom to make choices based on how they FEEL those choices pertain to their perspective.

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So, to a certain extent, people are programmed by their conditioning to adapt to their culture, and we, fractal-like, recreate the programming scheme within our technology, which at some point may take off and begin generating its own programs independent of us, continuing the fractal?

So the essence of what's being reproduced is the impetus to reproduce, just like in real life...it all boils down to creativity, maybe? But it seems that paradoxically what we are creating is the capacity for ever-greater destruction. So the creation and destruction vectors seem to be related and constantly interplaying....just like real life, again.

What I wonder is, whether or not there be a great awakening of sorts, where the real life force, in increasing numbers of enlightened people, rises to "match" the equal and opposite destructive force.

Will there always be a balance, is that a "rule" of nature, are there potentially undiscovered scientific "laws" determining this? I wish It would be so comforting to know that.

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Consider where technology would go after maintenance of it's host body becomes a guarantee? Maintenance of a host's body in space or deep in the ocean without a suit? Perhaps the to ability read your conscious frequency, record it, kill you, and duplicate you perfectly on Mars, cutting down travel time and "teleporting" you in seconds? The possibilities are endless.

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That is super cool thinking right there. But if it becomes a material world, all self-animating, with "survival" assured, what becomes the motive for creatures to destroy each other? With people, it's always competition for resources, or competing ideologies. Maybe there could be competing strains of computer programming, where one type of robot "wrongly" detects "flaws" in other robots, yet no one alive can "de-bug" the robots, resolving what is fundamentally a trivial distinction. In other words, the robots could theoretically all live in harmony and collaborate toward the same goals, except the people, lacking foresight, bungled everything long ago.

Just like, if our DNA is an alien creation, the aliens bungled things long ago.

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The advances in medicine over the past 3 years alone have blown me away.

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Me, too, thank you for sharing those links! Cold plasma is *cool*

Yet I'm supposed to believe there is no cure for incurable cancers? Malarky. It's getting embarrassing, how advanced certain aspects of medicine are, while other aspects remain barbaric and ineffectual.

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The theory essentially suggests that at a specific level of technological advancement, civilizations download their consciousnesses into a virtual world which can facilitate their interests without physical limitations.

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Love that! Thanks for the link, I followed a little trail of links from it and got a nice glimpse into the world of sci-fi. But again, what exactly would be the point? Would that be like the ultimate case of people having knowledge without consciousness? Because I think consciousness is content to be ineffable, immaterial.

Hmm, wait, that is very simplistic and vague. Maybe it's more like yin and yang, the ethereal and substance mingling. Or maybe nobody can ever say anything for sure.

Life is weird!!!

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I don't think there is anything wrong with technology, I just think humans are too juvenile to use it responsibly.

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Agreed.

'Will watch Sight later and comment

posted August 01, 2012 08:36 AM            

If that were to become reality I would probably be committed to an asylum, though. I hate TV and don't play video games or do social networking. So I wouldn't want all that right in my eyes, and imagining a culture shaped by that is worrisome, to say the least. Those people in Sight were just meeting so it's okay that they were boring, but what about long-time friends, could they sustain an interesting, deep conversation?

I saw a TED talk a few years ago about new technology that will enable someone to superimpose a screen over people and get information about them immediately (based on a biometric reading of their face, if I recall correctly.) The thigamajig is worn like a watch.

The TED crowd loved it, the comments under the video were ecstatic. I prefer my own anonymity so the potential for being exposed like that didn't thrill me at all, and I was freaked out about being the black sheep who wants privacy.

Privacy seems increasingly impossible. Which is somewhat in line with animism, I suppose...the animals know each other by sameness.

Edit: What I mean is, the less privacy, the more conformity, and I equate conformity with animals...although that might be too simplistic, as animals of the same species are never uniform either. But they appear so to an untrained eye.

I'm working this out as I write...things just seem to be moving in the direction of clone-ness. Even without biological cloning, there is personality cloning. Some of it's even done deliberately, I think...but that's a whole other topic.

I did read brave New World; there's homogeny amongst classes there, and I know it's a "given" in many futuristic novels.

So back to my original impression with Sight...I think that technology would give rise to boring people motivated by fear and the repurcussions of being "targeted" for non-conformity.

posted August 04, 2012 11:35 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
...turns out it's just our neighbor's psycho pony on the loose again.

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Originally posted by Faith:
So, to a certain extent, people are programmed by their conditioning to adapt to their culture, and we, fractal-like, recreate the programming scheme within our technology, which at some point may take off and begin generating its own programs independent of us, continuing the fractal?

So the essence of what's being reproduced is the impetus to reproduce, just like in real life...it all boils down to creativity, maybe? But it seems that paradoxically what we are creating is the capacity for ever-greater destruction. So the creation and destruction vectors seem to be related and constantly interplaying....just like real life, again.

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So when we create mechanized intelligence to help take over some of our personal responsibilities, we will program them to arrange their lives around things like when to serve us lunch, how gently to put out the cat, how carefully they should cherish our children, etc... I assume the first independent mechanized thinkers will shape their reality in direct comparison or contrast to our idea of normalcy. Perhaps they will even help us answer our own questions and liberate us from our prisons of normalcy, ignorance, etc.. Imagine if we created robots to serve us and then died of a pandemic. Then imagine being an alien race who visits earth and finds the most technologically advanced species practicing rituals and observing schedules that don't have anything to do with them. Imagine observing certain robots, as they worked all day collecting food from the earth, letting cats breed and fill up their houses then putting each cat out every night, then every day at 6:00pm certain other robots prepare the food and present it as an offering to nobody, but they do it because that is what one is supposed to do.

Do you think those robots would go through a period in time when the preparers of the food would name their self "the more favored model" because they were designed to prepare and serve the offerings directly to their creators? Could an entire robot war break out over the models who gather and the models who serve, because the serving models consider their self more holy? And thousands of years later when the robots start digging for archaeological evidence for their creators, but find nothing that resembles their own "biology", will they consider the old stories about humans superstition?...just in time to develop mechanized servants of their own (if they have been programed with a creative drive)?

Mechanic intelligence is fortunate though compared to humans, because our "creators"(if ever having existed) programed us with superstitions and fears which inspired us to seek out natural patterns, look deeply at our world, and eventually challenge those fears. We set out to conquer anything we once considered bigger than our selves and have taken great strides in the advancement of our species. Our creations will start out with all the information we consider logical. Imagine the vast difference between human and mechanical beings. We are like elves, or mythological creatures in comparison. We are made of the same materials as the flora and fauna of our planet, we have the ability to engineer and manufacture machines, and we can even turn them off and on at will. hehe sort of funny to think of it that way. Wouldn't it be interesting if robots gained a fascination with creating organic life and eventually create humans again? Sort of an on going robo/homo loop. heh

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Originally posted by Faith:
What I wonder is, whether or not there be a great awakening of sorts, where the real life force, in increasing numbers of enlightened people, rises to "match" the equal and opposite destructive force.

Will there always be a balance, is that a "rule" of nature, are there potentially undiscovered scientific "laws" determining this? I wish It would be so comforting to know that.

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I don't think destruction is the nemesis, it clears the way for your body to develop from a baby to a beautiful human adult, it helps you get over old attachments so creativity can work to find better paths, etc.. The question for me comes down to, "how does our consciousness work?" because for me, consciousness doesn't determine whether or not you will cease being your self, but it does indicate what happens after you do cease.

I think what goes up always later comes down and the same should apply to the balance of destruction and creation. No matter how hard one side pushes, they are both stuck with each other as two sides to the same coin.

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Originally posted by Faith:
That is super cool thinking right there. But if it becomes a material world, all self-animating, with "survival" assured, what becomes the motive for creatures to destroy each other? With people, it's always competition for resources, or competing ideologies. Maybe there could be competing strains of computer programming, where one type of robot "wrongly" detects "flaws" in other robots, yet no one alive can "de-bug" the robots, resolving what is fundamentally a trivial distinction. In other words, the robots could theoretically all live in harmony and collaborate toward the same goals, except the people, lacking foresight, bungled everything long ago.

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You raise a great point about flawed programing and that kind of draws me back to our own programing too. How can one overcome handicaps one can not perceive? One can only work with what one has been given. It is funny to imagine how "Off-Track" things could get with the slightest bug in the fundamental network of our mechanical creations. Thousands of years after the exodus or extinction of humanity, and robots have taken to worshiping marmosets and sacrificing toasters to the great monkey-god.

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Originally posted by Faith:
I'm supposed to believe there is no cure for incurable cancers? Malarky. It's getting embarrassing, how advanced certain aspects of medicine are, while other aspects remain barbaric and ineffectual.

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Originally posted by Faith:
But again, what exactly would be the point? Would that be like the ultimate case of people having knowledge without consciousness? Because I think consciousness is content to be ineffable, immaterial.

Hmm, wait, that is very simplistic and vague. Maybe it's more like yin and yang, the ethereal and substance mingling. Or maybe nobody can ever say anything for sure.

Life is weird!!!

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In a virtual world, we could make up our own rules and all the limitations of the physical world would cease if we wanted. We could even house our minds in a ship which is programed to avoid physical danger and therefor flies around until the universe collapses. I am more interested in the outside world, because there is beauty in unpredictability for me. And though unpredictability can be programed, the external world has so much to offer, it seems like a waste to ignore it.

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Originally posted by Faith:
I saw a TED talk a few years ago about new technology that will enable someone to superimpose a screen over people and get information about them immediately (based on a biometric reading of their face, if I recall correctly.) The thigamajig is worn like a watch.

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I never thought about it, but in a sense I guess animals do share a level of transparency, specifically by their sense of smell. Dogs for example, can smell other animals moods, what they have been doing socially, and what their body is doing. Though, animals tend to leave each other alone at times. Here, the roosters get all competitive over the hens, but through the day, they sorta don't care. The dogs run around together occasionally, but often they are off doing their own things. It seems animals also find time to observe the privacy of each other occasionally.

I could see non-conformity causing discrimination in a world like that, especially in the case of people's app scores, or how well they decorated their blank apartments. HAha

Sorry for the delay in responding and thanks for the happy birthday wishes on all my lions. Birthdays seem to bring out the best/worst in Leos (anything that grants them license to act like a kid really). =)

posted August 06, 2012 10:17 PM            

Thank you so much for all of this! 'Jumping right in:

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Many people believe these busyness exercises are the "rules of life".

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LOL..."busyness exercises." So true. I've come to think of modern American life, where survival is relatively simple for most of us, as being all about pastimes. How do you pass your time? People seem desperate to find something to cling to, that has meaning, and that fills the hours. Almost like the "desperation" part of the survival instinct is just channelled to different activities, which people often take as seriously as life or death...or, at the very least, their adrenal glands are reacting as if that much is at stake. Even when, taking a broader perspective, it's only a job or a relationship or trophy...not life or death in the slightest bit.

So if we transfer this "artificial" fight or flight response into the robots, and it perpetuates, it's easy to see how distorted their "mental" landscape could get. It seems they might end up safe AND paranoid, in inverse proportion. NOT threatened with a terminal disease when the bolts rust, but overreacting, because some neurotic programmer generations of robots beforehand thought rusty bolt malfunctions in his design would be HIS undoing.

'Hard to tell if I am overthinking this or not, since sci-fi isn't my usual domain of discussion, and I kinda feel like I am floating in the zero gravity of imagination here.

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I assume the first independent mechanized thinkers will shape their reality in direct comparison or contrast to our idea of normalcy. Perhaps they will even help us answer our own questions and liberate us from our prisons of normalcy, ignorance, etc..

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I assume the same. As for the bold part, that's fun to contemplate. I see some of that happening now through the internet. Even though the laptops don't get up and dance like real robots, they are liberating us, enabling us to forge links with strangers, experience universality...which is knocking away at our tendency to cling to absolutes, I think. To maintain a "my way is the RIGHT way" mentality in a social structure that rewards openness and acceptance becomes emotionally exhausting. So I think we are seeing a shift towards that. At least, I see it in myself, and it's a good thing.

But there are so many more ways to branch out from your speculation. I could think about it for a long time.

Like, what if the robots are solar-powered with limited battery capacity and only run when the sun is up? That could determine the bedtimes and rising times of the people. Maybe we'd actually get back into a more circadian-rhythm friendly groove, then, and THAT could springboard something else. Oh the possibilities are endless...

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Imagine observing certain robots, as they worked all day collecting food from the earth, letting cats breed and fill up their houses then putting each cat out every night, then every day at 6:00pm certain other robots prepare the food and present it as an offering to nobody, but they do it because that is what one is supposed to do.

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LOL! Okay, I just did! That was weird...

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Do you think those robots would go through a period in time when the preparers of the food would name their self "the more favored model" because they were designed to prepare and serve the offerings directly to their creators?

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Um...that's a toughie. Let's see. I'd say yes, because we, the robots' predecessors, obviously worship artificiality, or we wouldn't have replaced ourselves with robots. So it's likely to be a strong "genetic" factor in the robots, to equate artifice with greatness, and nature with baseness. The food-gathering robots would be closer to nature and therefore of a lower pecking order than the robots who transform the lowly natural food into something "robot-made," ie elevated.

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Could an entire robot war break out over the models who gather and the models who serve, because the serving models consider their self more holy?

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Totally. The Brahmins v. Untouchables, it's always the same clash...

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And thousands of years later when the robots start digging for archaeological evidence for their creators, but find nothing that resembles their own "biology", will they consider the old stories about humans superstition?

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Hahahaha....serves us right. But they wouldn't be too far off the beam, since so many of us are bumbling around in darkness & superstition.

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Our creations will start out with all the information we consider logical....Wouldn't it be interesting if robots gained a fascination with creating organic life and eventually create humans again? Sort of an on going robo/homo loop. heh

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Yeah. That just blew my mind. 'Never considered the idea before. Your thinking goes several hundred years into the future, beyond my customary range.

It seems physically possible. It reminds me of ...what's the word? Dematerialization? In Autobiography of a Yogi, Yogananda says that his guru could vanish and re-appear in another place, easily. I don't put much stock in those stories, but considering that we are just made of empty space and an assembly of atoms...really like dust...why couldn't disassembly and reassembly be orchestrated? And once the "key" to that process is found, a robot seems as likely to be able to use the key as an actual person. It is only summoning the laws of physics...unless there is a spiritual element to the key, which robots can never attain. Hmmm!

Not done replying yet...will write more soon.

Have a great night!

posted August 08, 2012 07:50 PM            

Sorry for the delay...explanation would be too boring so I'll spare you.

Just wanted to reply to a few more things...

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I don't think destruction is the nemesis, it clears the way for your body to develop from a baby to a beautiful human adult, it helps you get over old attachments so creativity can work to find better paths, etc.. The question for me comes down to, "how does our consciousness work?" because for me, consciousness doesn't determine whether or not you will cease being your self, but it does indicate what happens after you do cease.

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Well said. So the bottom line is..."Can consciousness be destroyed, are we finite or infinite?" When I think of destruction, in general, it's weird how biased I am against it, because I simplistically equate it with my own demise.

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With the ages of Aquarius and Capricorn approaching, I would wager the reason to destroy would be based on "logic". When something is obsolete, recycle its parts to make something useful.

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Maybe we'll model ourselves after bumblebees, yet.

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I wouldn't be surprised if the cures for cancer, HIV/AIDS, MS, and a whole slew of diseases exist in a gold plated room with price tags longer than my arm (a sign on the door reads, "Specialty Clientele Only").

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Did you happen to see that documentary on Dr. Burzynski? The very same people at the FDA who were plotting to prove that his medicine isn't effective later filed patents for his exact medicine.

THEY know what works.

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In a virtual world, we could make up our own rules and all the limitations of the physical world would cease if we wanted.

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I'm having trouble figuring out the difference between that virtual world, and this one (the internet.) The parallels might just be too close, as far as my understanding goes. Like here, I can be whoever I want, I could've just picked any birthday, any pictures, any autobiographical data, and character-played here. Almost like a video game with the setting being an astrology forum, myself being the hero, the objective being to achieve a premeditated impact on others.

Hmm, sounds more fun than goofing around through my real ego, as I do.

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I am more interested in the outside world, because there is beauty in unpredictability for me.

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One of the greatest things about life.

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Here, the roosters get all competitive over the hens, but through the day, they sorta don't care. The dogs run around together occasionally, but often they are off doing their own things. It seems animals also find time to observe the privacy of each other occasionally.

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Well that settles it. Animals are more considerate than my children.

But I never really thought of animal behavior that way. I have more respect for them, now that you mention it. They know what they need better than we do.

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I am working on a really cool, but long project which I will post in the Astrology 2 room when it's finished.

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The Sag Sun thread knocked my socks off...I've never noticed that much resemblance between people with the same key placements. More to say on that thread later.

Always grand talking with you!