posted May 18, 2006 03:12 PM            

I think there is a disconnect between American men / women and those of other countries.

Most of my friends are male (and American). As much as they love banging a stripper, bar-fly, etc.. guess what? They talk about you behind your backs. "Hey, I met a big-breasted ho-bag that sucked my unit all night long LOL....."

Another chimes in "yeah man, well I went hogging but found a nice fat girl willing to let me have anal so why not".

Of course, I ask "Well, what did you do for her?" The reply "Nothing man, she's a freaking slu*t, it's not like I am taking her home to momma".

This is just one example and it's not because I hang with abrasive men. I hear men from all walks discussing things of this nature about women that are willing to give it up in a second. NOW, if that woman only wants sex, well then that's a perfect meeting of the... well, I won't say "minds".

So for men (and woman) You meet a girl at a bar, have more than a few drinks, she's looking better, the conversation is pretty entertaining.. and bam... you both decide to get a hotel room and do the mattress mamba. Now you may or may not call her back. YOU may realize she's a dog and that you want nothing to do with her. SHE may realize she had on one hell of a pair of beer-goggles and won't answer if you do call.

The point is, having sex right away moves the relationship into a different category. The relationship has a significant possibility of going nowhere because the two people really don't know each other. Think of all the people you met and thought you could be friends with, but a few meetings later you thought - 'God what a freak" and decided it would be better to pick lint from your belly than hang out with them.

Now, imagine you had sex with them and you DON'T really like their personality two weeks into the relationship.

Does that mean that the guy got the milk without buying the cow? Maybe the milk was curdled or maybe he loved the milk but the cow has issues. Maybe he is horrible owner and the cow would rather go to the slaughter house than be with that person any longer.

Some people can reduce to sex to less than a physical reaction and therefore throwing it into the mix is as contrary as having a conversation with a new person and realizing you hate their politics.

Some people think you need an understanding of the person first before you break out your amazing mojo and merge with them.

posted May 18, 2006 03:36 PM            

"Does that mean that the guy got the milk without buying the cow? Maybe the milk was curdled or maybe he loved the milk but the cow has issues. Maybe he is horrible owner and the cow would rather go to the slaughter house than be with that person any longer."

posted May 18, 2006 03:50 PM              

Quote
"You meet a girl at a bar, have more than a few drinks, she's looking better, the conversation is pretty entertaining.. and bam... you both decide to get a hotel room and do the mattress mamba"

posted May 18, 2006 04:30 PM              

I'm started to get confused with all these symbolic analogies Cows, milk, honey pots, car insurance, chicken coupe, pin money, slaughter houses... I think women have their own unique language. Code Talk.

hahahaahahahahahhahahaha........
BG (by the way u made a nice summary of it all )

posted May 18, 2006 04:33 PM            

I don't think there is anything wrong with your wavelength. We are all different and have different experiences. I am from the suburbs of big cities (Orange Co, Portland / Seattle, Baltimore - DC, and now I live in a rural community). I noticed that we even have differences with me from Coast to Coast. Some men are more aggressive about asking out a woman (East Coast) where others are all "Yay man, wanna hang tonight and like watch a movie" (So very So cal and Portland -most of the time the true meaning was "I don't have any money or if I do I am going to spend it in Xbox and surf equipment so let's go dutch or you can pay for it". Hee hee..

BUT.. that is not to say that all men are like that at all.

The analogies are so typical of being here..

Cow / Milk: Basically, if a Farmer can get his milk for free or anyone can for that matter, why should he have to buy and take care of the cow? The same thought was applied to women - if you can get the sex, then why wine / dine her or make her an honest woman (since sex out of wedlock was once so taboo).

Not quite sure what the chicken coupe meant, but I think it was in reference why buy the chicken if you can get the eggs for free - same premise.

Beer goggles - well, I am sure you all have that in England too. Drink too much and a pretty icky person starts to look good - impaired judgment.

LMAO.... Well, this has turned out to be pretty darn funny

posted May 18, 2006 05:07 PM              

...and the entire discussion reminds me of that ... well, just a little...lol
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/006505.html

posted May 18, 2006 05:24 PM              

well this whole thing did start out as a joke! but looks like all the guys in da house cant take a joke

cheers guys
chill out

posted May 18, 2006 05:57 PM              

quote:

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Now what if you go ahead and sleep with him because you think its the cool thing to do or because thats what all your friends are doing? Not the right reason to become intimate.
Sexual tension can be fun and exciting
And again if you sleep with them to soon then what do you have to look forward to?
Bonding? yeah right.

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I agree that peer pressure isn't at all the right reason to have sex with someone and you're absolutely right about sexual tension being fun and exciting. However, I think that you're being perhaps too sweeping when you right off bonding through sex as unlikely or impossible in that way. I've certainly had that kind of bonding with men and although I've personally decided that I prefer a relationship with more layers, I wouldn't change or regret those relationships I've had with men which were mainly about the sex we had. They taught me how to be a better lover and how to express my feelings in a physical sense. They taught me about my own likes and dislikes and how to ask for what I want in the most sensitive and effective way, rather than enduring average sex for the sake of politeness or inexperience, or worse still in my humble opinion, sex that I had kept back for 'x' amount of time because I believed it would keep him interested in me and make him respect me. At the end of the day, I'm not really all that bothered whether they respected me - I respect myself and that's enough for me personally. I look back on them as valuable experience.

quote:

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Unfortunately women who sleep with a lot of men are usually dealing with self-esteem issues and looking for acceptance or validation. They confuse sex with love.
Ever sleep with someone and regretted it?
Be honest

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Speaking personally, I can very honestly say I have never regretted having sex with anyone, as to me it's pointless to regret that which you feel/desire. I think, if you feel something be honest about it - have the courage to stand by it and express it. Don't stint yourself or anyone else for that matter if it's what you both want. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone else or yourself, do what feels right to you. And as for self esteem issues, I think that's very individual and so to label all women who have sex early on or with lots of men as having self esteem issues is much too sweeping a statement to make in my opinion. I don't think it can by any means be attributed to those who simply have the honesty (and indeed the positive self esteem) to do as they please with their own bodies, no strings attached and no games played.

quote:

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Confident women who know their own worth don't sell themselves short or "settle" for something short of exactly what they want.

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Exactly. Which also includes having sex when you want to with whom you want to if they want to have sex with you, because denying yourself is also an example of selling yourself short or settling for something less than you want

quote:

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WHY would they want something common or better yet some loose goose whos been with all of his friends?

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Why does having the freedom to do what you want make you 'loose' or (dreadful word coming up) 'common'? And further more, why would he not think any less of his friends if after all, they've all done the very same thing? Why the double standard?

quote:

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They may want to play with those kind of girls, but not necessarily stay with those kind of girls

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Well if that's the way this bloke's mind works why would you want to 'stay' with him! He sounds like a hypocrit to me, thinking it's fine for his male friends to have sex as and when they want with whom they want but not for you.

quote:

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And yes there are exceptions to that rule but not as many as you might think. Remember the male ego. He wants to be proud of his girl, he wants to think of her as something special, above reproach. Someone who he would be proud to introduce to his mom.

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Well without doing a comprehensive survey of all the straight men in the world, I can't really see how this can be an accurate assumption. It's your opinion possibly based on your experience which you're of course entitled to, but (thankfully) it doesn't represent the men I've known/know. I think it's all to do with the way we treat them and ourselves - if you believe (and I'm using the 'you' in its general sense) the myth that women who have sex as much or as early as men are ***** and worthy of reproach, then it's possible you're perpetuating your own self fulfilling prophecy with regards to the behaviour of the men you interact with. I save reproach for people who I find really abhorrent; peodophiles, rapists, arms dealers etc. I feel something as strong as reproach is somewhat wasted on women who enjoy sex whenever they choose to and not when 'the rule book' says they should.

If a man is only proud of a woman because of the limitations she places on herself for him, then I think it's terribly sad because how can she be proud of him? Further more, if she's happy to massage his fragile and selfish male ego by forever denying her own desires then that's her choice but ultimately it's selling a lie. A lie that says his selfish behaviour is fine and acceptable; a lie that says her sexual desires are invalid and somehow dirtier than a man's: than his for instance.

posted May 18, 2006 07:35 PM            

Still shaking my head at your eloquence

posted May 18, 2006 07:52 PM            

I didn't realize that there was that big of a cultural difference between our respective countries.

One point I disagree with is

"Why does having the freedom to do what you want make you 'loose' or (dreadful word coming up) 'common'? And further more, why would he not think any less of his friends if after all, they've all done the very same thing? Why the double standard?"

Now we are talking about her friends possibly having a past sexual relationship with her new man right?
(in reference to)

quote:
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"WHY would they want something common or better yet some loose goose whos been with all of his friends"

I don't know if its most women or just me but the thought of getting involved with someone who in the past has been intimate with a (good) friend of mine is not very appealing. First of all I wouldn't want to feel like my friend was my competition and I wouldn't feel comfortable with her already having discovered/knowing about this intimate part of my lover.
This is not jealousy or possessiveness, More like the standards I chose for myself, it just wouldn't feel right.

And yes I've always been like that.

posted May 19, 2006 12:34 AM            

quote:

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Now we are talking about her friends possibly having a past sexual relationship with her new man right?

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posted May 19, 2006 12:43 AM              

"And if I met a man like that, the only reason I would agree to meet his mother is to give her a piece of my mind and tell her I'm appalled at her letting her son grow up with such a warped, damaging and one-sided view of women and sex"

Cardinalgal,

posted May 19, 2006 01:26 AM              

quote:

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A lie that says his selfish behaviour is fine and acceptable; a lie that says her sexual desires are invalid and somehow dirtier than a man's

If a man is only proud of a woman because of the limitations she places on herself for him, then I think it's terribly sad because how can she be proud of him?

And if I met a man like that, the only reason I would agree to meet his mother is to give her a piece of my mind and tell her I'm appalled at her letting her son grow up with such a warped, damaging and one-sided view of women and sex.

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(Nodding)

pidaua

Those men you quoted are disgusting and I wouldn't be involed with one if he were the last man on earth...much less go through the trouble of withholding the "honey pot" just so I could land him.

A man like that isn't going to respect you no matter what you do, because he doesn't respect women.

lalalinda

I think the whole issuse here is the concept that withholding sex makes a man respect you.

My point is, your self respect should not lay between your legs. How is a virgin different from a hooker, if her value is between her legs?

This is very damaging to young girls, especially when so many are victims of sexual abuse. They get the "damaged goods" mind trip.

Next thing you know, they sleep with anyone who asks, because they think they're worthless.

Our mothers were wrong. Being a virgin will NOT win a mans respect.

I have yet to see ONE example of a girl who was treated with all this "great respect" for having been a virgin.

Matter of fact, every girl I know was cheated on and then dumped by the same man that took her virginity.

This includes the ones who waited for marriage.

...And for a further slap-in-the-face, the girl he ends up leaving her for, is certainly no virgin!

Just ask Princess Diana, or Jessica Simpson how that works.

Even my ex boasted about taking his ex girlfriend's virginity. "She was a really sweet girl," he said. When I asked what happened to the relationship, he told me he had cheated on her and dumped her.

posted May 19, 2006 02:01 AM            

You're so funny. Greyhounds you say, how appropiate.

Interesting Venus, my Sun is 19 41 Aries. I've never really talked to a male whos Venus was on my Sun and Vice Versa.
Very Cool

I'm leaving this playground and going to copy and paste lyrics in another thread, so maybe I'll see you over there.

Layla, so then why give it up? There obviously is no substance there to begin with.
I wasn't aware that I was talking about virgins. Thats a whole different topic.
Are you from the UK also?

posted May 19, 2006 06:02 AM              

quote:

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Well in the first place, it should perhaps be pointed out that there's nothing 'easy' about giving head!!! It takes a double jointed jaw and the ability to breathe through one's ears in order to be truly successful at it!

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haha charmin’ I now have an image of a snake unhinging it’s jaws

quote:

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Water Nymph, is that girl you?

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posted May 19, 2006 06:20 AM              

Zala my lovely thank you so very much for your cheers and I'm cheering you straight back! Loving you girl! And Kamilla too!

Hi LalaLinda,

Yes it's surprised and fascinated me too to see the differences in our outlooks on things. I don't know whether it's to do with living one side of the pond or the other, as some of your countrywomen (and men) seem to agree with some of mine and vice versa so maybe it's just more of a generational or a purely personal thing based on our experiences? Maybe it's also due to our Venus signs? Mine's in Scorpio (surprise surprise ) in the 5th House. It would be really interesting to see where everyone else's is perhaps to see if our opinions on sex are directly attributable to our Venus placements?

AG actually answered perfectly for me when he said

quote:

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she is saying that if she has male and female friends who have similar patterns to their sex lives that she shouldn't judge one as a sl*t and one as ok/normal. She'd judge them to be the same, which is to say that she wouldn't judge them at all, because their sex lives don't make any difference to her life. They are grown adults who are free to pursue their own pleasure the way they see fit.

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I can understand your point LLLinda, about not wanting to feel like you'd be in competition with your friend - that's your choice and your own personal standard which is precisely what I've been saying: each to their own. We must all decide what's right for us and not what someone else prescribes or dictates.

Totally agree with you Leyla again when you say that "My point is, your self respect should not lay between your legs...?" That's certainly an interesting self-esteem issue if self-worth is calculated by which physical parts are still intact or by how many men have gained access?

posted May 19, 2006 06:33 AM              

quote:

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Cardinalgal: That's certainly an interesting self-esteem issue if self-worth is calculated by which physical parts are still intact or by how many men have gained access?

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Ooo, good way to put that. We're totally on the same page on this issue.

It doesn't make one bit of differance in how men treat you anyway. They respect you for your spine, more than any other body part.

posted May 19, 2006 07:22 AM              

quote:

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They respect you for your spine, more than any other body part.

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posted May 19, 2006 08:40 AM              

Also, I have noticed that even the guys I know as players treat them with more respect. This in itself is not enough to prevent those women from being cheated on or disrespected by the lesser male, but then the issues are clearly with the man and even through his bragging it is obvious to everyone including himself. These are usually the women who you pine after when they leave your life as well.

Hindsight can bring a harsh clarity.