posted May 20, 2006 07:45 PM            

True intimacy takes time.

I understand that I don't fully understand every perspective and I am open to understanding and expanding my view. I enjoy your style of writing very much and I am very glad that you responded to my post and gave me the opportunity to share more of my ideas on this subject. I know everyone will very much enjoy hearing more of your ideas, so thanks again for the response.

posted May 20, 2006 11:09 PM              

If you follow nature, very few female mammels are monogamous.

The female selects the male with the best DNA to mate with. And then the moment she sees another male with slightly better DNA, she's off with him.

He's only there until a younger, stronger, buck comes along.

By the end, she'll have changed partners many times.

Also, there's a great deal of "cuckholding" going on in the animal kingdom.

Even "monogamous" females will choose a life mate who's a good provider, but on the sly, she'll be sneaking off with the bigger stronger male, to capture a bit of his DNA.

posted May 21, 2006 05:37 AM              

Thanks for replying and thank you also for the lovely compliment I really enjoyed reading your posts too. You're so right! It is fascinating isn't it that the Fire signs who've contributed to this discussion are those who favour waiting. I'm a mix of air and rather a lot of water so perhaps us heavy water influences are the 'sl*ts' of the zodiac who feel the need to blend our essences more quickly?

quote:

---

"I want you to understand that the physical "honey pot" is not the most important part of a woman, and I don't think that anyone here thinks so"

---

LLLinda said in an earlier post "What I'm saying is to cultivate the basis of your relationship and give them time to like and appreciate you before you give away the most sensitive, special part of you. Which is the honey pot" I would have to agree with you Mystic, when you say that you don't feel it is the most important part, but then 'One man's meat is another man's poison' as they say. I can see LLLinda's point about cultivating a friendship and mutual appreciation, it's just that for me personally, friendship and sex can exist side by side.

I totally agree with you when you say "What I personally think is that allowing another person into your physical body, the temple of your Soul some have said, corresponds with the deeper levels on the other planes you speak of... emotional, mental and spiritual" I can completely understand if someone doesn't feel ready to share until later on in the relationship. Sometimes, I don't. It totally depends on the person I'm with and how we feel about each other or what the mood of the relationship is. Every relationship is different and has different themes influencing it.

I think that 'true intimacy' takes however long the 2 people involved want it to. Sometimes for instance, we meet people and the deepest connection is there instantly. Some may say it's a past life connection: a bond that can't be broken, dissolved or diluted over time. And therefore they might feel it's time immediately because it's as though the intervening years have been washed away, and only a heartbeat has passed since the last moment they were together. Others need more time to feel the need to express their feelings physically.

I think the reason I originally posted on this thread was because I don't enjoy being 'told' what is right for me or what I 'should/shouldn't' do. Especially when those rules pertain to a subject that is so incredibly personal. I prefer to listen to my own inner voice.

Of course I realise there was a large amount of humour in the tone of the thread and it was perhaps not to be taken seriously, however I felt it was presented in a rather "I know better than you" manner which I'm afraid pushes my 'Mars in Taurus' buttons, but hey... that's my problem. Must get those buttons looked at! I shall have to get a man in

I don't see all men as negatively as they were perhaps painted at the beginning of the thread. They are human and have faults and failings just as women do. And it might be worth remembering at this point, it's women who bring men up mostly! Very often, you hear women talking about their mother-in-laws and how they've interfered, or the fact that they won't hear a word against their precious little baby boy. Some mothers of sons are notoriously biased and protective and sometimes even jealous of their son's girlfriends/wives!

posted May 21, 2006 02:33 PM              

No I don't think I should take up any more space on this thread as I've rattled on quite enough and have offered my perspective and opinions on things. I'll step back and allow others to get a word in edgeways!

posted May 21, 2006 07:11 PM            

Actually, the female has no idea of what the DNA profile is concerning the male species.

They take an educated guess on the outward appearance of the male species and their ability to "protect" in some instances.

That is why bees to the "waggle" dance (Basically the male bee is trying to shake his tail feather to attract a hottie) and peacocks have such beautiful feathers (and why peahens are so plain).

posted May 21, 2006 07:22 PM            

I am not bitter or angry - your posts in this thread are actually bitter and angry and much, much too defensive. If you are unhappy with your personal decisions then don't take it out on the people on this board that are making comments about not jumping into the sack with the next person they see.

I qualified my post with the fact that women do the same thing, but for financial reasons.

The people I hang out with are a wide variety - from older homosexual friends, professionals, people with an esoteric bend, and young soldiers that my fiance mentors that are in dire need of learning a thing or two about dealing with women.

Does that mean I hate them? Decide never to talk to them because of their screwed up values? If that was the case there are many people here that do things I don't advocate that I would no longer communicate with. There is something to learn about people from all walks of life.

IQ,

You are an extremely judgmental and angry human being. I believe you secretely hate strong women which is evidenced by how you stalk my posts and add something negative in reference to me any chance you get. I can assure you that anyone that thinks your enlightened bs is real, then they will find out the truth as they watch you post your hate again and again. You may throw out tidbits of love and light to certain people that are receptive and you may even be extremely congenial towards them, but I've got your number big guy. I know that the instant they cross you, believe in something different that you proclaim or dispute one of your teachings, you will reduce yourself to your basic nature - spewing out expletives and derogatory comments based on gender - you and I know this to be true. You also broke one of the major rules of astrology by posting ones aspects in order to use it against them..tsk tsk...even newbies are aware of how that looks.

Your anger towards me is fine, as it does not affect my life in the present nor will it affect my life in the long term. I am confident that in time people will see you as you really are...

Oh and yes, I am prepared for your supporters to start bashing me in the subsequent posts.

posted May 21, 2006 09:50 PM            

I never expected mature women, or women who were hip to mens ways to take it any way except tongue in cheek.

I was hoping the young ones (and LL has many) would pay attention and perhaps I would have covered a point that they were unsure about. It breaks my heart 10 different ways to see dissappointment or hurt on their faces or their little hearts breaking when they believe some of the crap that is being said to them in an attempt to get down their pants.

At that point there is nothing you can say or do to make them feel better. And never would I say "I told you so" there is no reason to rub it in.

One important point I did notice was in the Venus signs.
It is Venus that responds to our love and social values.
Notice how many 5th house Venus' there are here?
CardnalGal, I see your Venus is in Scorpio. This is a lustful sign for Venus and at a disadvantage. Maybe thats why your views are more lax than mine.(Taures) Sex is serious business in my book too closely connected to my heart and my self worth for casual sex or sex with just friends.

PS In my business (cocktails in a major Hotel/Casino) Maybe I see to much of this.
I'm not judging anyone, Because then I'd have to take an honest look at myself and I am far from perfect.

posted May 22, 2006 12:43 AM              

It's funny that this should come up now, because I was just discussing last week with another forum member how much you've changed.

(And no, it wasn't IQ, but apparently he's noticed too.)

When I first came to this board you were one of the sweetist people here. I really liked you. Nowdays you're eager to fight, and seem overly concentrated on being tough and strong.

It's like you're trying to "prove" something.

You're hanging out with this crude group of guys, and feel you have to get tough and strong, because "That's just how men are." Well, that is not how all men are.

You don't need to turn hard and crude, you need to find a man who's tender and romantic.

The real strength you're seeking is in kindness, soft words, and understanding.

If we're so angry, why is it only you who says so? I don't recall when any of us have ever been accused.

You deny you have a problem, and say it's all of us who have the problem.

posted May 22, 2006 01:05 AM            

hold on a second,
I looked thru the threads, and I didnt see IQ being negative towards you at all...i didnt even see a post of him saying anything to you....

------------------
give me more Love, or more disdain;
the torrid, or the frozen zone
bring equal ease unto my paine:
the temperate affords me none;
either extreme, of love or hate,
is sweeter than a calme estate

posted May 22, 2006 01:18 AM            

"before you give away the most sensitive, special part of you. Which is the honey pot"

what I meant by that was we have to open up, trust our partner and allow ourselves to become vulnerable when we decide to have sex. At that point we are full of emotion.
Nothing is worse than discovering we put our trust in the wrong person. And it happens more than you think.

out

posted May 22, 2006 05:54 AM              

quote:

---

CardnalGal, I see your Venus is in Scorpio. This is a lustful sign for Venus and at a disadvantage. Maybe thats why your views are more lax than mine.(Taures)

---

Now hang on a minute Linda! What do you mean by that? 'A Disadvantage'... why? Why would Venus in Scorpio put me at a disadvantage? Is it your opinion then that all Scorpio's (Venus or Sun for that matter) are at a disadvantage because you see them as being at the mercy of their passions? Yes it is a passionate sign and one that isn't afraid to express its passion and it's sexuality. Why is that wrong?

I must say that I'm at a 'disadvantage' re what I feel to be your rather rude comments towards me. Have I been offensive to you? Have I said you were wrong and I am right? Have I been rude to you at all? Have I found fault with your Venus placement? I thought we were against that here at LL - picking on a point of someone's chart or their placements to give weight or justification to a difference of opinion we have with them. You say "I'm not judging anyone, Because then I'd have to take an honest look at myself and I am far from perfect." Very honest of you, however you've seen fit to judge my views as 'lax' and conclude that I'm somehow at a disadvantage simply because of a)our difference in approach to sex and b)my Venus placement.

I've agreed with some points you've made and have agreed to disagree on other opinions. And that's all the above is Linda - your opinion. Who are you to say that my views are 'lax'? That's exactly the kind of "I know better than you" tone that I felt was present in your opening post even if you did have your tongue firmly wedged in your cheek when you wrote it. It implies that you have all the answers; that you must be consulted by all of us. I realise you obviously don't feel that way or you wouldn't have said you're not being judgemental, but I'm afraid that's still how it came across to me. And no absolutely none of us are perfect indeed, least of all me!

posted May 22, 2006 09:05 AM              

There seems to be a myth that all women see sex as deeply connected with love

posted May 22, 2006 11:05 AM            

The art of astrology is designed to do just that - to lessen the divide between us all, and help us identify intimately with one another.

There is no need for this thread to become like many of the threads Ive witnessed in Global Unity. Although, my experience of that forum is limited, and I'm sure there is a great deal of brilliance lingering there - the overall impression my skimming has left me with is - a polarisation of opinions, each becoming so self-righteous as to present evermore extreme views to balance its opposing view. The problem with trying to balance polarisation and making an effort to bring order to chaos, is that you just end up creating ordered chaos.

By all means, continue the debtaing, there is nothing at all wrong with the passions of fire and water converging upon one another. But maybe its best to keep things on a respectful level, and remember that sex, just as love is, is defined in different ways to different people. For one person sex may be a purely physical extension of emotional, intellectual and spiritual bondings, sex would be the ultimate physical expression of love on all these levels. And for another person sex may be bind with the emotional, intellectucal and spiritual levels simultaneously, adding extra dimensions to the relationship. There really are no rules, and no rights or wrongs.

The same can be said of 'rubbing shoulders' with negative people... some people believe we should make an effort to distance ourselves from such negative influences, so we don't dilute our souls with their bitterness. And others will say we should walk with all kinds of people - 'smooth seas don't make skillful sailors' - African proverb.

Just one more small point, which is astrologically based - Venus in Scorpio and Venus in Taurus are actually remarakably alike in many ways. They are opposites, but the are both driven by very deep engines of devotion. Each is intense and loyal, each is dedicated and enduring, surely this recognition of values they each share provides a warmth between the two.

posted May 22, 2006 12:29 PM            

I haven't changed at all. You have no idea how I live or what I am like off this forum. I do not "Hang out" every day with those horrible vile humans as you try to describe them. They are young men that I have to be exposed to as my fiance is their Platoon SGT. They are all under the age of 24 and they do need to be corrected when they act stupid.

That doesn't mean I will turn them away. I can't- they depend on my fiance too much as they should since they all hold each other's lives in their hands when they are in the field (2 of those groups are going to be deployed to Iraq, so guess what honey, there's a good chance something life threatening could happen to them).

I think back to when I was a 20 year old Sag with a smart mouth and naive ideals. How horrible it would have been for older role models to turn their back on me because of some stupid statements I have made.

Let's look at what some of the women have stated here about lax sexuality. I know other cultures that would call these women s1uts and turn their backs on them. I would be just as upset if someone said all the women here who think its okay to have sex on the first date are wh0res and should be treated as such. How dare they judge?

In the same respect, some people need a bit more instruction that others. The young soldiers know how I feel about their antics - but I'll tell you this - you may think lower of them, but they might just be in a position to save my fiances life in the field as well as each other. As crude as they are, there isn't anything they wouldn't do for a fellow Soldier or their family members.

Hmmm..... would I chose them over some other people - you betcha... even if they are a bit crude at times.

PS... I don't care if you discussed me at all. If you go back through my posts from the time I started here, I am probably the most consistent over 4 years. Think back to Carlo and a few others that had similar antics as someone else here that enjoys posting after me.

posted May 22, 2006 01:21 PM            

quote:

---

CardnalGal, I see your Venus is in Scorpio. This is a lustful sign for Venus and at a disadvantage. Maybe thats why your views are more lax than mine.(Taures) Sex is serious business in my book too closely connected to my heart and my self worth for casual sex or sex with just friends.

---

Just so you know, lalalinda, you may get in trouble with the astrology police on this as Pidaua has informed IQ that interpretting someone's chart in a negative light is a big "no-no." It's fascinating to me that the Moderator of the Free Astrology Course isn't aware of this unwritten and undiscussed rule.

That said, however, the highly imaginative and over-protective nature of Aries never fails to astound me.

posted May 22, 2006 01:23 PM              

Rarely does a young woman seek to f**k and run - she's usually looking to form a special bond with someone. She probably doesn't even know her own sexual needs yet, so she's not likely to pursue a "sex only" encounter for the sake of getting laid. If she gives it up to a guy, she's probably expecting it to be a bonding experience. She probably doesn't even get that much pleasure out of it at that point. Young guys aren't that great in bed yet, so God knows the girls aren't doing it to "get off". They're doing it to make the guy happy. That willingness to please leads to them being taken advantage of - with little or nothing beneficial coming out of it for the girl. Just a crappy naked encounter which carries the risk of a bad reputation, an unwanted pregnancy, an emotional hurt, and/or a possible STD. Promiscuity is not advantagous to a young woman. She has nothing to gain from it, and so very much to lose.

Now, the more mature, experienced women, on the other hand are much more into the pleasure factor of sex, and may seek that out for the pleasure factor alone. They know not to hang a bunch of expectations on it, and they very well may *not* want sex to lead to something more. But, they're not going in with some polly-anna romantic notion. They basically just want to get laid.

Maybe they've had a long term intimate relationship or two already, and have grown to really enjoy sex. When they find theirselves single for a long period of time, they'll find theirselves getting sexually frustrated, having developed their sensuality, and feeling very much in touch with it. They may seek out sex, while still on the lookout for someone who they can form a strong emotional bond with. But in the meantime, they still want intimacy, for the sake of sexual gratification. If it goes no further than that, they're not left crushed by it. At least they got they got some action out of the deal, and that's great.

Women are indeed sexual creatures, with needs that match those of any man. But, it takes us longer to awaken those needs, and to really get in touch with them. Once we do, look out. However, we must be mindful that our set of criteria are quite different at that point then they were when we were younger. If we think society should embrace our savage sexuality and break down all social barriers to our actively pursueing sex, it becomes a thread running through the social tapestry, and trickles down to the vulnerable, naive young women. We're telling them to screw their bleeping brains out as much as they can it's all good - it's their right. But, it's NOT apples to apples. They don't even know how to enjoy sex yet. It's like teaching a child to ride a bicycle for the first time on the freeway without training wheels. No no no. That is ridiculous and dangerous. You start somewhere familier, on your own home street, with training wheels, very slowly and carefully. You have to find your center of gravity first, and you have to learn to steer it at will. You have to learn how to listen for hazards, and how to opperate the breaks. When you've got that mastered, then maybe you'll come to actually enjoy riding your bike on the freeway. But, maybe you never will. Maybe you've tried it and find it too fast paced and nerve wracking, but at least at that point, you're equipped to choose for yourself, fully aware of the hazards and wise enough to take the necessary precautions.

P.S. There is no need to reduce ourselves to petty behavior about this. We just need to look at the big picture, and know that wherever we're at within it, is not necessarily where everyone is at within it. What works for one, may be disasterous for another. It's all a matter of perspective.

posted May 22, 2006 01:52 PM            

WN wrote:

quote:

---

So this whole string is about protecting? I see..
But through pain we learn. We need to make these “mistakes”, it’s our right, it’s how we learn. Pain will either make you wiser or more bitter…but it‘s inevitable. You can’t shield anyone from their karma, as long as they’re human, they will suffer at one point or another. But they’ll also experience great joy and etc etc

---

I also hope that the values I’ve instilled in my 10yo son, and will continue to instill as long as he still hears my words, will become a way of life for him – but if he insists on being as stubborn as his mother, I suspect he will learn things the hard way, as I did. There is nothing more futile than trying to protect people from themselves. And, sad or permanent as they may be, lessons learned the hard way often have more power and weight than lessons learned by being told “You shouldn’t do this, and here is why.”

CG~

I think what lalalinda might have meant about your Venus being “at a disadvantage” is merely that it’s in its detriment. Big Deal. 1/12th of the population of the world probably has Venus in Scorpio. You’ve got a lot of “lax” company Our Libra Suns are in their Fall – so what??

posted May 22, 2006 02:11 PM            

I am the astrology police

Zala is right Cardinal girl, I was refering to Venus being in detriment in Scorpio.
I am sorry if it sounded like I was judging you.

just a little refresher course.
http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_development/astrology/LearningAstrolo gy/signsVenus.htm#o8%20Scorpio

Venus In Aries
Venus (to harmonise) in Aries (energetic and urgent).

You enjoy being first (cardinal) in matters related to fashion and beauty. You may also seek new forms of entertainment. You follow your pleasures energetically and urgently. You must have it! You are direct and you might be too direct in areas of romance, even coarse (active, Venus in detriment). You may fall in love with someone at sight and have a whirlwind romance (cardinal).

Venus In Taurus
Venus (to harmonise) in Taurus (Enduring and Possessive).

You are affectionate and seek lasting pleasures. You are likely to want to attract a partner, rather than to take the first steps yourself (passive). You are also more likely to get involved with someone rather slowly (stable), but once you have a relationship, you tend to keep it (fixed). In relationships you may be very possessive. You may be attracted to others according to how practical the relationship is (earth) and you are unlikely to run away with someone after a lightning romance! You want to have beautiful things in your home.

Venus In Gemini
Venus (to harmonise) in Gemini (Versatile and Variable).

You have many and various things you enjoy, although you might not enjoy any of them deeply. You are logical in that you notice relationships between different ideas. (Venus). You are also likely to rationalise your desires and pleasures (air). You think a lot about your relationships with people (air, Venus). You are a good communicator and might have a "golden tongue". You tend to judge things in relation to values rather than facts or details.

Venus In Cancer
Venus (to harmonise) in Cancer (Instinctive and Protective)

To feel good about yourself you need to be surrounded by things of beauty. You may feel you need luxurious things, even though you may not really be able to afford them. (need vs luxury). You may instinctively be drawn to things of beauty, but not really know why (desire not thought, instinctive). You might consider you need these things and desire and want them above anything else (even if it seems crazy to others). You may very strongly defend your hankering and longing for beauty, luxury and sensuality. It is possible that some deprivation in early childhood makes you do this (Cancer home, passive, instinctive desire). You may be very emotional (water) over relationships (Venus), longing for a partner and moody in relationships, which is instinctive and not rational.

Venus In Leo
Venus (to harmonise) in Leo (Impressive and Creative)

You exude a grand vision of wealth and luxury (even if poor). You may have a great deal of interest in the arts, and may be a good actor (Leo). You are generous (Leo) and might tend to overspend or otherwise deplete your resources (Gambler). You are good at handling people (linking) and at bringing people together (harmonise). You are also good at handling disputes, and might handle conflicts beautifully (Leo in a Venus way).

You are good at thinking up new ideas and starting things which relate to realtionships and luxury (cardinal). You may find that when in love you cannot get the other person out of your mind (fixed).

Venus In Virgo
Venus (to harmonise) in Virgo (Analytical and Critical)

You enjoy experiencing art (Venus) and paying close attention to details and pointing out any errors (Virgo) or lack of harmony (Venus). You may be highly skilled at making (Virgo) beautiful things. Even if others think you are beautiful or handsome, you may be highly self-critical and consider yourself unattractive (when you aren't). If asked about artwork, you will probably speak about it in a detail by detail way, evaluating each bit as good or bad (or inbetween). (Virgo, Venus). It is possible that the weighing and balancing of each detail (Virgo) and evaluating it (to value) bit by bit might interfere with artistic pleasure, and you might just not like art, or appreciate beauty (Venus in fall in Virgo).

Venus In Libra
Venus (to harmonise) in Libra (Diplomatic and Harmonious)

You are the epitome (Venus rules Libra) of perfect balance (the scales) in beauty. You may present yourself elegantly and attractively, figuratively or literally, in relation to others. You are a great solver of interpersonal problems and you make a good diplomat and partner. You can bring about harmony between people in a beautiful manner. You are a good thinker (air) in matters related to interpersonal relations, so you can think up new ways to bring about peace. You have good judgement in these matters.

Venus In Scorpio
Venus (to harmonise) in Scorpio (Intense and Secretive)

You may be intensely passionate and sensual (water). You may feel compelled to do things (passive), perhaps secretly, by intense feelings and passions. The physical, sexual aspect (Mars corules Scorpio) of your relations (Venus) may be most important to you (Venus in detriment). You may find it hard to stop thinking about physical matters (fixed). In relation to beauty and art you may be more interested in discovering secrets about beautiful people and things which undermine them (Pluto corules Scorpio).

Venus In Sagittarius
Venus (to harmonise) in Sagittarius (Free and Tolerant)

You have a free relationship with others and are tolerant with them. This makes a fairly free relationship. You gain great pleasure (Venus) from philosophy and higher education (Sagittarius), or at least advanced matters. You may seek pleasure (Venus) in distant places (Sagittarius), either in the world, or distant in the mind. You do not have a strong connection with art or beauty. You might however enjoy many art forms without showing any strong preferences (mutable). For you, the truth is related to linking together different things (Venus) in a loose manner (freely and tolerantly), perhaps harmonising somewhat different things (Venus).

Venus In Capricorn
Venus (to harmonise) in Capricorn (Prudent and Reserved)

You are happy (Venus) when everything is going like clockwork, on time, on schedule, and according to procedure (Capricorn). While you will start things you do so cautiously, and are likely to commence new projects when the advantages are such that you cannot turn the opportunity down (cardinal, passive, earth). What is beautiful (Venus) to you is something that goes like clockwork (Capricorn) and which is palpably of great benefit (earth). You are good at handling interpersonal matters (Venus) because you listen carefully (cautiously) and try to find a workable solution (earth). Your tendency to believe that people should work like machines, on time, etc (Capricorn), is mediated by your sense of fairness and ability to make relationships (Venus) and utility (earth), so you are a good executive. You are also a loyal employee.

Venus In Aquarius
Venus (to harmonise) in Aquarius (Indifferent and Unconventional)

There is great pleasure in bringing together (Venus) unconventional ideas (air) and harmonising them, whatever others might think (unconventional). In love, the relationship may be unconventional, but you will follow your heart. You love (value) your friends (Aquarius) and benefit from your friendships. You are loyal (fixed sign).

Venus In Pisces
Venus (to harmonise) in Pisces (Impressionable and Inspirational)

You are capable of a high degree of refinement (Venus exalted) in your love and caring for other people. You may "collect" people who are in difficulties, and whom you wish to help. You enjoy music and may be a musician. Through music you can transcend (Pisces) the material and seek transcendence.

posted May 22, 2006 03:06 PM              

Sorry for misinterpreting you Linda - I'm not familiar with those descriptions of Venus signs and therefore automatically thought you were being a little judgemental. I do apologise. Thanks for the lesson in Venus sign astrology too. Very useful