posted June 17, 2006 06:42 PM            

'Zala said it more wisely than I could, though - they were harsh words, written in anger, no doubt, but they don't give an accurate representation of what the site was about. Maybe it would have been better, as some have said, to simply leave everything that was there up for the reading. Everyone could have seen the ugly things (though I still contend that these were so few as to be nearly nonexistant), but they would have had to sift through all the good to find them. I think what you would have found would be a pretty good reflection of this site, or of any other place where human beings come together and talk. Albeit some really nice humans, at least for the most part.

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It appears that website of yours wasn't exactly the tea party you made it out to be.

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If I had seen something like that written about me, I'd feel the same way, Tink. But consider your own words - you have to consider the source. I mean, I like Magus a ton, but he does have a pretty good temper on him, and he was blowing off steam, like he said. But even if every post he ever made there was angry he was still only one voice. As AG said, one look at the memberlist would assure me that it wasn't a hate-group.

Just for the record, Tink, from the little that I have talked to you, I have gained a great deal of respect for you.

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The very fact that kind of crap is ok at that site DOES set the tone for it.

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A personal attack on someone who cannot defend themself is obviously never OK, Isis, but if everything was defined by the very worst dirt we could dig up on it, LindaLand itself would be nothing but a cesspool. As would most of us, no doubt.

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I see what you're saying. My only answer is that as long as no one is searching it stays pretty private.

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As an interesting bit of trivia, did you know it was because of issues like this that the whole "1337 speak" thing was invented? Changing letters for similiar keyboard symbols might have helped keep the forum private, huh P1d@u@?

posted June 17, 2006 07:12 PM              

No worries though. Magus and I have been thru this a few times before. Scattered remnants can be found on a few threads here at LL. No big deal and it didn't happen often. His rants, and inability to take a mature responsibilty for them, are no big surprise. We've all seen them. His rants don't hurt.

Johnny - Most of the names I saw on the member list, at least the ones I recognized, didn't surprise me. Except for proxieme. That surprised me. I respected her so ... yeah ... from proxieme it would be upsetting. Otherwise ... same old same old, huh? On the other hand, if prox thinks I'm just a b*tch in need of a good butt f*ck to set me on the straight and narrow, more power to her! It's well within her rights. I won't call her or you or Magus on it.

What does offend me, and what I will call you on, wasn't really the act itself but the audacity of denying what went on there. And the insistence of it more than begged a rebuttal. Otherwise people will believe the lies.

And Magus' voice, as you know, was not the only one.

We now know some of the things that were said about me and some of the things that were said about pid. If others get a hold of other things said about them and wish to post it - that's their decision. If not - so be it. But please don't pretend that these things don't exist.

posted June 17, 2006 07:34 PM            

Tink ... I love you! And I know that, like the majority of us here, petty-behind-your-back comments like those don't get to you the way they would to people who feel justified to make them in that manner in the first place.

Oh,NO! Maybe I showed too much fire in this post! Who's judging me now?

posted June 17, 2006 07:36 PM            

I don't even know where it was posted on there. I don't condone that, certainly.
I just wanted to say though... that our personalities stay no matter where we are... I wouldn't participate in that if I'd read it, and I think I would've given him the thumbs down ( as I do now) had I seen it.
I don't post on every forum here, nor did I there...
I'm sorry that Magus posted that. But, as you said, considering the source, and your past interactions, you can be sure it wasn't a consensus, just someone with a dirty mouth blowing off steam.

You know what concerns me?
Each one of us are being lumped into a category based on a minutae of some one expressing an opinion.
Most there wouldn't ever talk behind people's backs. It's not fair for this to turn into a 'well, because you posted there, it means you are underhanded'.
I took part in no bashing, Nor did anyone here who have indicated they hadn't.

This whole thing is being taken too far.
I can't apologize for being a member of a forum, as I wouldn't apologize for being a member of THIS forum. You discuss things, talk amoungst your friends. I don't talk behind people's backs here either, I'll say it if I feel it.
It's quite frustrating to feel this weight of... nothing....
I can apologize for hurt feelings.. but I didn't hurt them personally... so I can't really express more than that.
As was expressed already.... this wasn't a bash fest, in the least. It was never intended to be, nor did it evolve into that. One or two posts that I read had personal information.. but it wasn't more than a friend talking about how much her mother frustrates her or something.... you know?
The 'should we invite' part bugged me a bit, but it wasn't negative, it was exploratory.. comfort for all involved, not malicious.

I think perhaps the forums shouldn't have been erased..... I would have gone in and edited the parts I maybe would prefer to keep private.. my details I wouldn't share quite as publicly, but such is life.. it was a protective gesture, I understand that..
But as such, I have no point of reference that it was much like here, only a smaller audience.

posted June 17, 2006 07:40 PM            

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Johnny - Most of the names I saw on the member list, at least the ones I recognized, didn't surprise me. Except for proxieme. That surprised me. I respected her so ... yeah ... from proxieme it would be upsetting. Otherwise ... same old same old, huh?

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Well, Tink, if you already harbored a grudge against everyone there (except Prox, of course), I'm not sure there's anything I can say to convince you. Thanks for making your opinion of me plain, at least.

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And Magus' voice, as you know, was not the only one.

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Tink. If you're going to say that I am a liar, just say it already - round-about insinuations get on my nerves. I am sorry that hurtful things were said about you behind your back, and I really do empathize with your position but I'm not a coward pretending not to remember what I would rather hide.

Did I post something that got you rankled? If so, I would welcome you (or anyone else) to put it out here. I posted there since December of last year, some 200 posts, if I remember right - maybe I said something I don't remember. It's possible. If so, throw it out here and prove me the lying, venomous snake that you seem to think I am.

posted June 17, 2006 07:42 PM            

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This seems so overblown. Is it just me?

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Not just you, Pix. Seems like people with old grudges are having a field day.

posted June 17, 2006 07:49 PM            

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KS was kinda like the party-room at a bar or restaurant, where just friends could gather -- is that so reprehensible?? It was also nice to be a little freer (raunchier?!?) of speech on various subjects without having to worry about offending the sensibilities of anyone, or whether there were under-18's around.

The biggest benefit is that we did not have to deal with people who keep reincarnating (I'm certain you will understand who I'm referring to)
Another pleasant factor is that most everyone was knowledgeable about astro, so we didn't have anyone popping in to ask "What's a North Node?" or "can you tell me who my soulmate is?"
And that everyone there has a skill or specialty area of knowledge/wisdom to share.

We knew it wouldn't last -- safe places seldom do.....

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I can't help feeling here...... don't people know that I say it like it is?
If I had something to say, I'd say it.. here, there, anywhere... The only thing I posted that was 'bitchy' was about Lotus.. but I'd already said the same thing to her here on LL.. I was just still bitching about it there..... cuz it was annoying.

posted June 17, 2006 07:55 PM              

We had nothing against LL. Love it here and the many people here. As you can see, we still post here because we do like it here very much.

It's sad to see that the entire site would be judged for a couple of posts out of hundreds of loving, thoughtful sharings, but as you say about human nature, juniperb, that's what humans do.

Perhaps it would have been better to keep the site, so all could see what we mean by innocence. But as said, here, pictures and other personal things, some would like kept private if they can. I wouldn't have cared myself, but respect those who do care's hope for that.

Like AG said, do any of us seem like nasty, back-stabbing, petty people? Haven't we been kind and loving?

Tink, I'm sad to see you feel that way about not liking any of us anyway, because I like you (and am sure many of us do). In fact, probably Magus admires you more than his post would show. (correct me if I'm wrong, Magus. Hope I'm not speaking out of line here) You're an intelligent woman most probably well versed in psychology. Think back over time and really look at your interactions with him in an objective light. He admired and respected you. Don't know what set him off to write that post but whatever it was,he cared, which is why he was so angry.
Not justifying what he said at all. It was scathing and I imagine shocking to see.
Just something I'm personally taken a notice of throughout time. That he cared about your opinion of him. And that from someone who doesn't care for the most part what others think of him.

But ruined reputations? Why?
Give good reason why...because of assumptions? This was not a 'secret society' in a maniacal sense. Nor were we all like-minded just because we posted there. We are all very different, just like people at LL are different.

As for voting...this was new to all of us. We didn't know what the hell we were doing...just kind of winging it, trying to find a way. I never participated in voting myself, but respected that for the time, it was the best that could be figured out to keep the site distinct from LL. Not because we didn't want people from here there. Only a very few seemed more concerned with needing to feel others were kindred. Most of us, I think felt as long as someone was open-minded and goodhearted than that would be good enough. Because LL is such a high-traffic site, the more that would be invited, the less quiet it would become. It would change the entire dynamic of the place.
So therefore votes were VERY seldom. For the most part, things were kept as they were and rolled on through time.

There's probably been 10 more post in the time it's taken me to write this ...
so hope it's still relevant.

posted June 17, 2006 08:01 PM            

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The very fact that kind of crap is ok at that site DOES set the tone for it.
"the spirit of love and togetherness"?
What part of sitting idly by while someone who is part of your "safe environment" is so base and vulgar about someone who is not even there to defend themselves, constitutes "the spirit of love and togetherness"?

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I can't help feeling here...... don't people know that I say it like it is?

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posted June 17, 2006 08:01 PM            

I don't have anything against TINK, and was also dismayed to see that apparently there is something against me.
I am not going to assume though, that she meant she had something against me in particular, just against the idea ( and who wouldn't?) of anyone partaking in something like that..... But I didn't participate, nor see it, as has been said by most here....

posted June 17, 2006 08:08 PM              

That's absurd. I barely know you people. You're reading into it something that wasn't there, Johnny. My lack of surprise at the members list stemmed from the few of you who have several times mentioned you are kindred spirits. For instance, many months ago, sue g. mentioned having found a spiritual family with some of the people here at LL. I congratulated her and was sincerely happy for her. I told her I had found one too. So why would I be surprised to see those same names on your website? As I said, it seems perfectly understandable to me. And I stand by my statements that you shouldn't have to apologize for the existence of your website.

I have no grudges against you or anyone else here. Including Magus. In fact, a few weeks ago I mentioned right here on GU that I missed having him around. I can't say I'm fond of him when he goes into stupid juvenile rant mode - but when he's calm and puts his mind to it he can be entertaining and fun. I won't lie and say I feel enormous affection for each and every knowflake I've encountered - some I enjoy, some aren't to my taste and I avoid them. Clearly, I'm not to everyone else's taste either. I thought I was relatively aware of who didn't find me to their liking. But maybe not. Like I said, more power to you.

"Venemous snake" is a bit much But the "hey it was nothing but a sweet lovely website and nothing nasty was ever said" rountine doesn't jive with what I've seen.

posted June 17, 2006 08:19 PM            

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But the "hey it was nothing but a sweet lovely website and nothing nasty was ever said" rountine isn't going to fly.

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I think the members who have spoken here haven't said what you quoted. I didn't personally see that rant aimed at you, Tink.. but I admitted to a verbal 'grrrr' in Lotus's direction. Not sweet and lovely, as sometimes here I am not as well.. but certainly not underhanded.
I haven't said anything bad about you here or there, nor about Pid, nor about anyone rather than what I have mentioned from my first post here. Lotus.( and she deserved it!)

posted June 17, 2006 08:42 PM            

Tink, I am sorry that words were spoken about you that were so um... well, we know what they were...*cringes*
I want to assure you I don't agree with them, and didn't know they existed.

I also want to point out the ( I should hope) obvious...
Just because we have posted on a forum with people who have posted nasty things, does not mean WE POST NASTY THINGS. I am responsible for my own behaviour. I can 'call someone out' for being nasty, if warrented, of course.. but oftentimes, things slide, someone rants, feels better, doesn't think of it again.....as it happens, I didn't see that particular one in quotations.

I apologize for his behaviour, and to Pid, also could have been potentially hurt by words.

Again, I did not speak/type those words.
I wouldn't. I am too direct, and frankly, don't have anything bad to say about you ladies.
Tink found my humour offensive once upon a time, but I don't hold her opinions against her, nor do I even think of it, it is in the past, it was a misunderstanding that happens a lot when different people get together. I defended and apologized way back when it was warrented.....
I still enjoy her posts when I read them, I don't hold anything against her. Why would I?

I ask the same courtesy.
I adore so many here, and would never seek to hurt anyone.
I know many of the KS's also wouldn't.. I speak that with great assurance.

So while I apologize for things I have no control over, but can empathise with, I do not apologize for posting on another site. Why would I?

posted June 17, 2006 08:49 PM            

I have not seen the thread so I don't know what else was said - I was referring to people who WERE/ARE aware of such comments like those made regarding Tink, but said nothing. If Petron or Rainbow or any one of a number of people in here that I know don't care for me, were to have those things said to them, I would not stand by and not say anything to the offender. The point is IMO nastiness like that shouldn't be tolerated from anyone for any reason, and anyone who sees such behavior and stands idly by is just as responsible for the behavior as the offender by virtue of sending a message that it's ok, nobody is gonna call you out on it. (Except when it comes to the Unstable Troll, I think he/she just wants attention so I feel the best course of action since Randall can't seem to make it go away, was to ignore it no matter what it said to whom)

I didn't mean to indict every member of the site. I don't know who was posting what, I never saw it.

posted June 17, 2006 08:49 PM            

And about the power of non-representative excerpts being used to shape perceptions….. now I understand the workings of propaganda machines…..

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I adore so many here, and would never seek to hurt anyone.
I know many of the KS's also wouldn't.. I speak that with great assurance.

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posted June 17, 2006 08:55 PM              

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I've never said anything behind someone's back that I wouldn't say to their face ... and have said in the majority of circumstances because I had the opportunity to do so. Even when those things weren't nice. Even when I had to apologize for them because I knew I was out of line.
It's called being mature.

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As I wouldn't.

Shouldn't be taking this generalization lumping so personally, but as a Sagittarian, I can't help getting riled when my honesty and integrity is judged unjustly. And people who I know who are honest and good people as well.

It's interesting (sad actually ) how easily and quickly people will think the worst of others.
Snap judgements, superiority complexes and self-righteousness abound rampant in this world.
hmmm....getting deja vu.
kind of why the kindreds came about in the first place.

I can understand why those like Tink and Pid are riled right now and questioning, but for those others of you (Eleanore, Isis, etc...) who are not even involved and are just jumping on a lynching bandwagon so you can feel superior, the way you are getting off on it is abnormally creepy.
Creepy in a give the willies way.

posted June 17, 2006 08:56 PM            

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That's absurd. I barely know you people. You're reading into it something that wasn't there, Johnny.

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Hmm, my mistake then, Tink.

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But the "hey it was nothing but a sweet lovely website and nothing nasty was ever said" rountine doesn't jive with what I've seen.

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Well, Tink, I would like to respectfully postulate that you probably haven't seen enough to come to an accurate judgement. Come to think of it, that seems to be the unifying trait among those here who think the people who posted on that board are lying rats and cockroaches.

I didn't say that it was sweet and lovely and nothing nasty was ever said - I don't think there is a place on the Internet like that. I said it wasn't the judgemental bash-fest that Pid was making it out to be, and it wasn't. The only discussion of anyone from here that I ever witnessed, save for a few mentions of Lotus' latest crucifictions of the spiritually unworthy, took place in discussions of who to invite, and I never witnessed any of those degenerating into backstabbing orgies of nastiness.

KS was created, I think, to get away from the hostile atmosphere in LL. This thread makes it pretty clear, at least to me, that not much has changed.

I imagine the 'witches' at Salem went through something like this, though maybe with a bit more drowning and burning. As soon as the first accusations, however unjustified, come out, everyone is all too happy to jump on the bandwagon with harpy cries of "I'm not surprised!" and "Look at them deserting each other now that the jig is up!"

Hypocrites. How many of you oh so righteous judges were even able to look through the forum before it was deleted?

"But WHY did you DELETE it all, if it was so innocent as you claim???"

Privacy. What was spoken in confidence is simply none of your damn business. You know very well you'd delete your e-mail if you discovered someone was trying to read it, even if you had nothing at all to hide. Once again, hypocrites.

But then there was Magus' post, which most nobody here even recalls coming across in a forum of thousands of posts. It was wrong - no doubt about it. I really wonder how long it took Pid, or whoever sent it to Tink, to find it, though.

I don't defend, condone, or agree with it, but are a few harsh words blown off in anger enough to roast everyone who ever posted there, regardless of how they've been in the years you've known them?

And you wonder why anyone would feel the need to form a group outside of this.

EDIT: Tink, the above rant is not directed at you, just so you know.

Pix, 'Zala, Lia, Sue, AG, - thanks for making LindaLand worth sticking around.