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Author Topic:   Are Asteroids REALLY Important??
Yin
Knowflake

Posts: 1988
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posted February 25, 2010 03:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

mermaid26, I couldn't agree more.
Thank you for your beautiful words.

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comica23
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posted February 25, 2010 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for comica23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually, I don't really see why we are still talking about the importance/relevance of asteroids versus the importance/relevance of the planets. It is true that it doesn't seem right when someone only gives importance to the asteroids and forgets about the importance of the planets, but most of the users of asteroids already mentioned that the planets are the main structure (the main cake) while the asteroids are complementary (the icing and stuffs).
Sometimes, there are some never ending loops in a thread coz the participants misunderstand each other, when they might actually share some agreement in what they seem to disagree.

But well, I'm interested in the debate about whether:
- the planets can already tell everything (so that the asteroids only reflects what's already in the main planets);
- or the planets can only tell the main trends while the asteroids can show the details.

But if any of the cases are valid, then asteroids are still valid anyways (thought again, the planets are the most relevant of course), and it could help us understand situations better, right?

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DiandraReborn25
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posted February 25, 2010 05:16 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Valus

so it was my mistake,i saw somewhere saying that you were an astrologer.

but according to everything else...i maintain what i feel.

i do believe,like DD said,that you will find proofs if you look at your chart.important dates or things that you already know wabout your past lifes will clearly be shown.

the details? will be showned to you only by asteroids.

the planets give a general basis,but what will really POP PUT will be the placements,dont forget the sabians too,of the asteroids.

ib elieve you can be an old soul.why not?we ALL ARE capable of wonderful,magic and glorious deeds,,it is no need for all of us to be a genius....you might have been a genius of metaphisic,and others are genius of empathy,of compassion,of love...etc etc...

even for those who are "new souls" they place inside all that is needed to be a genius cause we´re all made out of love,light,joy and compassion.

just some times we dont really feel it or see it...but it is there..

to my personal view,IQ has already prooved by several of his experiences and cases showned that asteroids are crucial to discover the misteries that cannot be unveilled by the common planets or asteroids...

btw what do you say if i tell you that asteroid HANNA is right cj my ASC?...my name is indeed....Anna.

is that a....coincidence?a laughter of Destiny?

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Winged Leo
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posted February 25, 2010 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Winged Leo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is another example for Asteroid skeptics:

On the day I got initiated into level 1 Reiki, tr. Reiki was conjunct my Ascendant, tr. Mars was quincunx natal Reiki, also pr. Moon squared natal Reiki!!

Asteroid Karma was conjunct natal Mars, activating my natal Mars-Chiron (healing ability) opposition.

I certainly do believe in Asteroids.

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mermaid26
Knowflake

Posts: 779
From: Adyton
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posted February 25, 2010 05:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mermaid26     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Valus, some added insight for your Moon Aqua 0 - from Dane Rudhyar's interpretations:
FIRST LEVEL: ACTIONAL

PHASE 301 (AQUARIUS 1°): AN OLD ADOBE MISSION IN CALIFORNIA.

KEYNOTE: The power inherent in all great human works to endure far beyond the workers' life spans.

The works and spirit of the Spanish priests who directed the building of the California missions have had a lasting influence on the development of this land; these remain as a monument to the men who were able to make their mark upon this alien environment. While the zodiacal sign Capricorn begins with a symbol of socio-political power, Aquarius at its start presents a more spiritualized and idealistic or creative picture of the social forces at work. Moreover, it stresses the enduring character of human achievements ensouled by a great vision. At least within the frame of reference of our Western civilization, the symbol speaks of the projection of a noble ideal into concrete forms of beauty and significance, thus of the radiation of a "civilizing" power into an institution offering to primitive men the opportunity to reach a higher, more organized and productive, level of activity.

This is the first stage in the sixty-first five-fold sequence. It speaks to us of THE CONCRETIZATION OF AN IDEAL. This also implies the "immortalization" of an individual within a great collective and cultural enterprise.

You may already know this I suspect. Personally, I am traditionalist, preservationist, and archivist. I view the insights from Asteroids, Sabian, Chaldean Numerology, etc... as means to enhance, thus add more light and color to our personal jigsaw puzzle portrait map. We are all borderless puzzles masterfully interlocking one another. I believe the more you know the less you know ... perhaps the greatest mystery.

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Valus
unregistered
posted February 25, 2010 06:54 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Thank you, mermaid, for what you said on the last page (it was beautiful) and for what you shared just now. I honestly believe I have written things which compare favorably with a number of classic works, -- the kind which intellectuals make it their vocation to promote and study, -- and which well deserve to stand the test of time. I think there is a good chance that my name and work will join the ranks of the "greats".

It's a reality which I would not be the first to proclaim, by any means, if not for the fact that it is almost universally ignored, lol. But, as they say, "Genius is invisible to most people". And the keener your sight is, the less likelihood there is than others will be capable of sharing your vision.

I agree with you that, "the more you know the less you know". My work is entirely devoted to exploring that paradox. Nietzsche said there are two distinct forms of genius: those born to provide answers to difficult questions, and those born to provide questions to easy answers. Actually, he didnt say it that well, lol, but that is the gist. I think, if there is anything about which there can be no question, it is that I am here to ask questions.

Thank you again.


See Also:
Daniel Johnston
Sun at 0' Aquarius
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YobuN4b4X9Y

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Valus
unregistered
posted February 25, 2010 07:01 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

DD,

I have my own specializations, and I've spent countless hours presenting and explaining my own discoveries. Right now, I had hoped to rely on people like IQ to research asteroids, because I cannot be expected to do everything. That's how community works, yes? We cannot all specialize in the same things. I'm asking IQ and Glaucus to show evidence of their findings. I think that is pretty straight-forward, and easy enough to understand. If nobody wishes to share their findings, or to subject their findings to scrutiny, that is fine. But, then, what have we been doing for 250 posts? Sharing our opinions? How boring is that? Let's either cut to the chase, or find a thread that isn't explicitly asking this question.


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Valus
unregistered
posted February 25, 2010 07:12 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Diandra,

Yes,
there are many forms of genius,
and many forms of intelligence...

You have to keep track,
not only of the "coincidences",
but of the times when nothing coincides.

Moreover, you cannot stretch the facts
in order to make something coincide.

Your name is Anna, not Hanna.

The asteroid Anna is #265

Why is Hanna conjunct your Ascendant?

Where is Anna?

You continue to persuade me that I'm right,
and that you see only what you want to see.

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Choc
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posted February 25, 2010 07:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Choc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Honestly? I think we've gone overboard with the use of asteroids.

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Valus
unregistered
posted February 25, 2010 07:24 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Glaucus,

How do they come by those interpretations? It's interesting to note that, even when a pattern is recognized, it may be misinterpreted. For instance: what may appear as an avoidance of responsibility for one's words, may in fact be a deeper appreciation for the ineffable. But that is a long, long story. Incidentally, I saw a post you made about Eris on another site. It was a very long post with no responses, and I wanted you to know that somebody read and appreciated it. The idea of using astronomy, and not just the pressumably synchronistic appellation of names, to suggest meanings appeals to me, as it does to you. The theory connecting Eris with Persephone was particularly interesting. Thanks.

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jane
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posted February 25, 2010 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Valus -

quote:
You gave a competent analysis of some basic chart factors... then you said it wasn't enough

No, that's not what I'm saying.

It's like when you watch a movie and there's a twist at the end. With that new piece of information, when you replay earlier scenes in your head, those scenes have a meaning that they didn't have the first time you saw them.

Every piece of our chart is like that ending, giving us new information in order to understand what the other scenes "really" meant.

Unlike a film, chart interpretation isn't sequential. There is no start. We have to jump in somewhere. I jumped in with the first planet in my chart. From there, I could know other parts of myself, and other parts of myself then helped me understand that first part.

I went from Uranus to asteroids thematically and because both were connected with my Moon.

The Moon showed my issue of universality v. individuality. The lunar Nodes are connected with the Moon, plus they reinforced that theme. The asteroids on my Nodes then helped me further understand what that lunar conflict in me is. They provided a light bulb moment for me - I looked at them one day and clearly saw my issue of relationships feeling like a threat to my individuality, and the particular way that threat feels to me. Then my Moon aspects made more sense to me. It's a loop.

We don't have some asteroid self that exists parallel to our planetary self. It's wrong to think asteroids are unimportant and superfluous if they don't provide new information separate from the rest of us. They provide a specific way to interpret the rest of us, and the rest of us tells how to interpret the asteroids.

quote:
Show me your Venus -- sign, house, aspects.
I'll judge for myself how pertinent Eros is.

Please do!

My Venus is in Cap in my 3rd house.

It's trine Chiron in Taurus (in my 7th) and Mars-Jupiter in Virgo (in my 10th/11th). Grand Trine, if you count Chiron in those configs. I do.

I have Chiron = Venus/Mars.

I also have Venus quindecile Juno, and Pluto = Venus/Juno, but well...

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 5819
From: Sacramento,California
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posted February 25, 2010 07:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Glaucus,

How do they come by those interpretations?"

Well...Philip Sedgwick gets his keywords from the mythological name, orbital/physical features of an object, the zodiac sign of its heliocentric north node during its discovery,the zodiac sign of its perihelion (the point of an object's orbit closest to the Sun).

"It's interesting to note that, even when a pattern is recognized, it may be misinterpreted. For instance: what may appear as an avoidance of responsibility for one's words, may in fact be a deeper appreciation for the ineffable. But that is a long, long story"

Yeah...I agree

"Incidentally, I saw a post you made about Eris on another site. It was a very long post with no responses, and I wanted you to know that somebody read and appreciated it. The idea of using astronomy, and not just the pressumably synchronistic appellation of names, to suggest meanings appeals to me, as it does to you. The theory connecting Eris with Persephone was particularly interesting. Thanks."


Thank you.

well...Dr. Michael Brown pointed out that Eris' orbit was Persephone-like.

Zane Stein included Persephone/Proserpina stuff in his keywords for Eris.

Uranus seems much like Prometheus in its nature.
Neptune seems much like Bacchus/Dionysus in its nature.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

- Eckhart Tolle

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DiandraReborn25
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posted February 25, 2010 08:14 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Name asteroids are vibracional so you can see if you want it to see of course,that Hanna has the same sound that Anna.

i am Anna in portuguese but im also Hanna if you would have named me in England for instance.

Hanna is right at my asc...i choosed that name to myself,before encarnating.means the one that is full of Grace...

Anna?that asteroid is 5GEM


placed in my 9th cj my quiron.

"WORKMEN DRILLING FOR OIL "

Pursuit of material or spiritual wealth. Ambition and the drive to plumb the depths. Psychoanalysis and psychotherapy. Dream analysis. Past life explorations.

I do all of that...it is in my Soul´s nature...afterall i ve choosed this name with a very profound knowlege of who i am and of waht i wanted to experience in this lifetime...

it is you Valus that doenst want to see the Truth...it is allright though...we all have our right times of looking inward without skepticism...it will be only then that you will look outside with FAITH.

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DiandraReborn25
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posted February 25, 2010 08:18 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually....we dont strech the things to make it in accordance to what we want...they are already as we want them to be

we are the Creators,not the other way around...whwnever i see the coincidence,i know it was me who brought it to myself..in order to keep it going on..the right track...i always ask Him to show me the ways...and He always answers...synchros are His Way of say hello....and coincidence is just a word to name something that is much much complex and beautiful.

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Valus
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posted February 25, 2010 11:11 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

jane,

I'm pretty sure I get what you're saying, and, for the most part, I agree. Every time you look at your Sun (or Moon, or Mercury, etc.) you come with a new pair of eyes, after having reflected on various other chart factors. Spirals, and all that. I was surprised, though, that you would look to asteroids to figure out how your Nodal axis is related to love matters, after you finished saying that even unaspected planets and points are related. Also, the interpretations you gave don't seem to distinguish between Eros and Amor, or anything specific, but appear to just be interpreting the signs, albeit in reference to how they would relate to love. My response is that you could probably get the same results by relating those signs to anything -- since the Nodes represent that fundamental process of evolution, moving away from this, toward that, it could very easily manifest in every corner of your life. I know my Pisces South Node/Virgo North Node does. Also, the condition of Venus, Libra, and the 7th are all related to how you approach love... I'd have to look at the chart in its entirety, but I'm pretty sure you'd be surprised by what I can see without recourse to asteroids.

Anyway, I'm not militant about this. If asteroids are helpful to some people, for whatever reason, great. While I think the same factors show up regardless, I do think some people are more or less comfortable using asteroids, and comfort is conducive to clear astrological interpretation. We find what works for us. I would just recommend that people use caution, and not be so quick to judge. I seem to see a lot of shoddy astrologizing in this thread.


Glaucus,

So, he doesnt look at people at all?

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MyVirgoMask
Knowflake

Posts: 3671
From: Bay Area, CA
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posted February 26, 2010 12:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, I'm not too happy reading here, Diandra, that if someone is skeptical or doesn't believe in something, then they do not 'See the truth'. That's implication that someone is not evolved enough, it's a very holier-than-thou attitude, and I find it condescending. After all, the same argument can be made about those who 'believe' in asteroids, couldn't it. Skepticism is not some sad phase for some, to me it's a natural process to keep one's mind testing and interested. Without it, we'd all be mush, sheep, just eating whatever's spoonfed to us.

Why can't it just be that everyone has their own source to reach their own truth?

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Glaucus
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posted February 26, 2010 12:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

"Glaucus,

So, he doesnt look at people at all?"

I am confused. What do you mean?


MVM,

Good points. I agree with you.


Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

- Eckhart Tolle

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DD
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posted February 26, 2010 01:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Valus,

I disagree.
Personally, if I doubt anything, I HAVE to become a specialist and see for myself if it works.
Noone else can really erase my doubts for me. Even if an interpretation is absolutely spot on, I have to understand how they arrived at the interpretation to see if I can agree with the logic behind it.

But that is my way doing things;
I understand that you have a different method.

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iQ
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posted February 26, 2010 02:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Something about the energy of Valus is like Knowflake Stephen/HeartShapedCross but HSC was very competent in analyzing whole sign House Systems.

I have proven mathematically that Asteroids work. Raymond has done the same, only he has not shown the formula, though he has listed amazing examples. I have even proved the Asteroid Prediction through Jupiter conj NIOBE, see the thread on Cynnared.
More than enough examples have been given by many experienced knowlflakes.

I think the next question should be how best to apply Asteroids. In the midst of the posts, one good point was to not mix up Asteroid themes in synastry. Another is to focus on consistency while interpreting.

I will wrap up by giving one more Asteroid example.

Precise Saturn conj Moon is always an afflicted time. It occurs every month.
There was a certain date where Saturn conj Moon saw more than 2 million direct and indirect deaths. That was the only time in the 20th century that Saturn conj Moon coincided with a morbid Asteroid T-Square.

Only 5 Asteroids appear regularly in events with terrible man made devastation. Lucifer, Siva, Rudra, Kaali and Poseidon. Out of 15000 asteroids. That is 1/3000 in itself.

Of these 5, 3 were in EXACT T-Square on that deadly date. LUCIFER opp POSEIDON T-Square RUDRA. Mythologically Rudra is the terrible destructive aspect of Siva.

The date was 6th August 1945. Hiroshima bombing. Sadly, HIROSHIMA was exactly trine RUDRA and quincunx POSEIDON. It was the "easy" target. Kyoto was the original target but one of nuclear bomb planners, Stimson, had a honeymoon in Kyoto so they shifted the target to Hiroshima in the last minute.

I am not done yet. At the time of devastation, Ascendant was conjunct RUDRA.

Game, Set and Match to Asteroids.

------------------
http://tamsoft.co.in/articles.html

Readings

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vapor-lash
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posted February 26, 2010 02:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
But he is HSC.

lol

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iQ
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posted February 26, 2010 02:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I feel like a fool....
If I had known Valus was HSC, I would not have bothered giving so many examples. This talented Poet's head is stuffed in Neptunian Clouds, and he is very much an old soul, destined to be a Khalil Gibran type. These ultra-sensitives dont need astrology nor math nor asteroids, they are like super cooled liquid. Always shining from a distance but too much information is like noise, it can shatter their spirit.

I have his birth info as well. Hee Hee Hee.. [Snidely Whiplash mode] its so nice to know everything about someone..... and being a guy I can keep secrets

------------------
http://tamsoft.co.in/articles.html

Readings

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DD
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posted February 26, 2010 04:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Valus,

I know you didn`t ask me, but I was having some thoughts about the Grand cross you posted.


Before Eros became the God of erotic attraction, he was a primordial "daimon", a force present at the origin of creation. Therefor I interprete Eros not only in terms of erotic attraction, but as a very creative power, the spark of life or creation.
In a way this fits Chaos; it`s the instinct or drive to transform the chaos, not just into order, but into creation. By instilling chaos and turmoil you are striving to create something new, that you consider being more profound, deep and valuable than what was before (Eros is in Scorpio, so indicative of a complete transformation).
It`s almost like you feel you have to destroy the old, plunge it into chaos to be able to build something completely new from it.
Since your Moon is in Aquarius, there is probably a connection to collective humanity; creating something not just for you personally, but probably to reform the whole world.
Orcus is a Plutino,a nd through Pluto`s rulership over Scorpio, there is a resonance between Scorpio-Eros and Orcus.
I see here two predominant themes:
1. intensity and transformation
2. absolute dedication to your conviction.
And these happen in most intense passionate ways.
Since Moon is involved in this, this is very personal and important to you. A part of your core identity. The downside could be that there may be a certain detachment or lack of compassion for fellow umans; at least in an individual sense.
your interest is focused on a greater scale, maybe even striving to develop or transform hu,man collective consciousness, so that you could feel that certain acts of compassion or even politeness may detract from this goal / purpose, and you are not willing to comprise this.
The "mission" to transform or rebuild becomes a main driving force.

I think the fact that all objects are in the first degree of the fixed signs indicates your absolute devotion to your principles / ideals.
the objects are in challenging aspects; so you might actively challenge other people. Since squares and oppositions provide much energy, these qualities may be very predominant in your personality.

Even the Sabians seem to fit the themes of strong convitions, a sense of mission and purpose in transforming and creating out of the chaos.

The Sabian of your Moon makes me think that you may consider this creating and developing of consciousness as your misson, almost like a "sacred duty".
the Sabian of Orcus indicates that you are able to mobilize great energies when it comes to your conviction, but that you sometimes may be blind or maybe even indifferent to other`s feeling, and they may feel overwhelmed by your vehemence.
The Sabian of Eros could indicate that it`s easy for you to draw a "crowd" to you, and that you will be heard, (even if people may disagree with you).


Just some thoughts.

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iQ
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posted February 26, 2010 05:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
These insights are dedicated to DD:

One of the most important figures in Egyptology is Lord Carnarvon, funder of the search for King Tut's tomb.
Born 26th June, 1866;
He was a reckless driver of automobiles in his youth, with one crash leaving him disabled.

Sabian of his Sun conj Uranus 4 Cancer:
"At A Railroad Crossing, An Automobile is Wrecked By A Train"

Carnarvon opened King Tut's tomb in 1922.
He died in 1923 mysteriously, starting rumours of a curse.

His chart has Saturn exact square Asteroid TUTANCHAMUN.

Why was he fated to have pioneering interest in funding Egyptologists ?
KARMA conjunct GIZA in Aries.

When did he open the tomb?
26th Novemeber 1922. Note the Numerology of 26. [ He also married on a 26th, the daughter of the Rothschild dynasty ]

On that day, TUTANCHAMUN and PTAH were conjunct and sextile his Natal Tyche exact, and Transit OSIRIS exactly conjunct Carnarvon's GIZA-KARMA conjunction. The consort of Ptah, SEKHMET was conjunct Carnarvan's Saturn exact, and NEFERTITI, the consort of King Tut was trine Carnarvon's GIZA-KARMA exact. Transit Moon and GIZA were also conjunct that day.

Howard Carter has amazing SEKHMET aspects too, for another day.

But his and Carnarvon's composite has the icing on the cake.
TYCHE exactly conjunct SPHINX and exactly trine OSIRIS, with South Node trine GIZA exact and PTAH swextile GIZA exact.

Hope you enjoyed this


------------------
http://tamsoft.co.in/articles.html

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MyVirgoMask
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posted February 26, 2010 05:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For the life of me, as an Egyptian, I never know why the hell Tut is considered so important regarding Egyptology or even Egyptian mythology. By Egyptian standards, King Tut is a throwaway king, a completely unimportant part of Egyptology. He was never considered important - he had zero impact historically. It's by Western standards alone, and all the gold which was discovered, that he remains synonymous with Egypt.

Which gets me thinking about mythology in general, and asteroids. Seriously? Half the time people do not know the full meaning of the mythology attached to asteroids. Secondly, a lot of the interpretations are WESTERN and often diluted, to be made palatable.

Third: Riddle me this ... I spent most of my childhood summers in Giza, in a villa my uncle built there, overlooking the pyramids. A hugely fond, lovely part of my childhood.

So naturally I was shocked to look at my chart and see the asteroid Giza making no aspects to personal planets except for a square to my Mars... widely (huh? Why Mars?).

I am sure my post will be ignored since nobody actually wants real places mentioned and not validated as far as asteroids (snicker), but gosh. Giza! You'd think , huh? Nope. Nothing. I guess it's not 'significant enough' to be in a chart...so it can't be real.

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vapor-lash
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posted February 26, 2010 05:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
MVM - I don't think asteroids are always relevant.

But since that was a very meaningful experience for you - Could you look up the neighborhood/area you were in (if it is an asteroid)?

What was the main thing that had an impact on you?

Which pyramids could you see? Was there one in particular you had your eye on?
Maybe you could look up that name.

:edit: - Your uncle's name.. could be another significant one.

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