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Author Topic:   Are Asteroids REALLY Important??
Valus
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posted February 19, 2010 04:36 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Leaving aside the obvious question (i.e. "does size matter?"), let's consider the fact that there are hundreds of these little bodies being catalogued and just-as-quickly slapped with an interpretation. Astrologers continue to disagree on the significance of asteroids, so, it would seem this is a matter worthy of some investigation.

Many of the most respected and experienced astrologers do not consult the asteroids -- as they see it, these are minor influences, and the chart already provides more than enough to interpret (including planetary placements by sign and house, aspects, transits, progressions, house-cusp rulers, and so on). And many who have experimented with the asteroids and found them useful still say that the same information can be found by a proper study of the primary archetypes, as signified by the signs, houses, and planets.

I am inclined to agree that we have scarcely enough time to confront the major themes (as shown by the primary planets, transits, and progressions), without giving our attention to the minor influences signified by asteroids. But what I really want to know is how astrologers are coming up with interpretations of these asteroids, by the dozens. What methods are they using to determine the probabilities? How many thousands of charts are they comparing, in order to statistically determine the interpretations of each one of these asteroids?

Are these interpretations reliable, or just figments of the astrologer's imagination, eagerly seized upon by people desperate to find meaning in their natal (or synastry) charts? Do we enable poor astrologers, and encourage them to think they are more accomplished than they are, just because they can point to an obscure body in the heavens and reassure us that there is indeed strong karma between us and so-and-so, despite the lack of major planetary interaspects? Do we fool ourselves into thinking some asteroid is really important because, after all, it's conjunct our sun (and nothing else is)!? Why are we so quick to believe the first astrologer who claims to have discovered the meaning of an asteroid? Have we interrogated him/her in order to learn the semi-divine methods by which he/she has come by this rare knowledge?

If there is an astrologer out there who claims to have "cracked" the meaning of more than a dozen asteroids, I'd love to hear them share their methods with us. How did you do it? Don't be coy. Share the wealth and wisdom. My Sun/Uranus in Scorpio on the Midheaven would seem to be perfect for an astrologer, but, for the life of me, I can't begin to make claims about the meaning of some obscure astrological body -- not when every conceivable theme has already been covered by the dominant archetypes.

What do you think?

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Cat Face
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posted February 19, 2010 05:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cat Face     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't use them. I like sticking to the basics.

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cristiname
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posted February 19, 2010 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cristiname     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
no. not at all.

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raspberri
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posted February 19, 2010 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for raspberri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Asteroids ARE important. They add DEPTH to the art of astrology.

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Diana
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posted February 19, 2010 06:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Diana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think they're good as an adjunct. They have to support what is already there in the natal planets. This is doubly true in synastry and composites. It seems sometimes, that some people use asteroids to try to make bad synastry good and that just isn't possible. Planets always take precendece.

If they support the planets, and add more confirming dimension, I think they are accurate.


Some asteroids are more studied and proven, such as lilith and chiron.


In MY studies, I find karma is usually accurate. However, it has to (like all other asteroids) have other planetary confirmations of the same vein.

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GypseeWind
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posted February 19, 2010 06:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GypseeWind     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with you, V.

It seems like a clutching at straws to me.

But, then again, in a hundred years when that is the only system relevant, we may be eating our words, so, who knows???

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Geocosmic* Valentine
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posted February 19, 2010 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's funny that this thread popped up here today because I found this little Gem in Lucille Ball's chart. Does anyone here remember a "little" TV show called "I Love Lucy"? Well...take a look at where asteroid "Valentine" falls in her chart and decide for yourself if you think asteroids add anything to astrological prognostication:

I'm not sure that the word "important" fits the bill here. I think it's important to fully immerse yourself in basic astrology. Make sure those skills are pretty strong before you allow asteroids to tell the whole story. I think of it like baking a cake and then adding the icing. I love icing, it's my favorite part of the cake, but I would hate to just sit down eat icing, it needs the cake, the foothold, the solid structure. That kind of thing.

EDIT: Just thought I'd add these...

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Diana
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posted February 19, 2010 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Diana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ummm, maybe I am being dense, but what does 'valentine' have to do with 'i love lucy?'

I think this is why a lot of us are skeptical. The definitions are too reaching.

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Geocosmic* Valentine
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posted February 19, 2010 07:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh, by the way, asteroid Valentine conjuncts MY REAL NAME in my chart. Is it any wonder that I identify my astrological self as Geocosmic Valentine?

I didn't realize it when I chose this name, but that's how it is.

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raspberri
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posted February 19, 2010 07:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for raspberri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have Valentine in exact conjunction with my Sun too!

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Diana
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posted February 19, 2010 07:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Diana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rapberri


Maybe you can be the new 'I love Lucy' since you want to be an actess!

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raspberri
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posted February 19, 2010 07:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for raspberri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well it's in Cancer, I think Leo is more apt for a comedian like Lucy was.

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Diana
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posted February 19, 2010 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Diana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have it conjunct my sun too, but it's wide.

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Geocosmic* Valentine
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posted February 19, 2010 07:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Diana,

Valentine=Love

Also, at the beginning of the show opens with a giant Valentine being filled in with the title of the show "I Love Lucy". Even though Lucille Ball was a film actress for several years, we tend to think of her as one of the BIGGEST TV STARS OF ALL TIME, we identify her acting career with the TV show "I Love Lucy". Although she played a character very different from her real personality, they chose to name the character Luch and the show "I Love Lucy" despite her husband Desi's protests. It could have simply been called "The Lucy Show" as it was at some point in the 60's. I think she had 2 other shows in the 60's, but that's how we always identify her. I always think of a valentine when I think of her as well.

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Diana
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posted February 19, 2010 07:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Diana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi,


I still think it's reaching...

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vapor-lash
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posted February 19, 2010 07:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Darn it Valus.. lol
I was just about to take an LL break.. but I simply must answer this. So my break starts right after! lol

Ok so asteroids - does size matter? Nope.

Some are important. Some are not important.
I think it depends more on how well known the name is.

Valentine has figured prominently in all my relationships.. but Valentine is HIGHLY publicized practically all around the globe.. That's how I explain it.

Other asteroids are words we use daily. They are very ingrained in our speech (in several languages) - like Union.

I think astrology in general works through word-vibration.. I'm not sure how else it could work. Mars is not objectively "red" (it is red based on our-human visual perception). Mars is not objectively war-like, because red is not objectively war-like. We attributed these traits to the planet when we gave it the name: Mars (due to the associations with Roman and Greek Myth)

So that is how I see asteroids working also..

quote:
How did you do it? Don't be coy. Share the wealth and wisdom. My Sun/Uranus in Scorpio on the Midheaven would seem to be perfect for an astrologer, but, for the life of me, I can't begin to make claims about the meaning of some obscure astrological body

I think it's mainly through looking at charts over and over again.. and finding patterns.. things that are significant and things that are not.
Isn't that how we learn most things.. and how we form conclusions? Through research?

But some asteroids are just blatantly obvious in meaning. It's like asking "oh what meaning does Venus have?"
Look up the Goddess!
Or "What meaning does Valentine have"
Look up the Saint!

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Geocosmic* Valentine
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posted February 19, 2010 07:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Diana,

I don't use asteroids when I do consultations, everyone once in a while at the end of a consultation, out of curiosity. I would never judge the whole horoscope based on that, but I do think that after looking at the scope of the woman's life, and how she is thought of "collectively" in the world of entertainment, even internationally it holds a curious significance.

Also, astrology deals with the world of symbols. What stronger coincidence to have in the chart of one of the most famous/recognizable women in the world. I think it's hardly reaching. I think it's a tremendously strong coincidence.

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Lara
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posted February 19, 2010 07:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Geo!

How wonderful to see you back!


I think asteroids are important.
DD has a thread at the moment about them and i tried her theory out on two relationships and they were spot on!

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Geocosmic* Valentine
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posted February 19, 2010 07:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Lara,

I hope I'm really back. I've been experiencing some transits that...well...kept me away when I didn't want to be away. Let's hope the retrogrades don't bring up more difficult life development. I'll check out DD's thread.

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Lara
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posted February 19, 2010 08:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah these transits are not a bunch of roses - remember also that the 5th dimension energy is upon us big time at the moment.

Check out this website...

scroll down to bottom right hand side and click on "The 5th Dimension" - a video will appear
http://om-iam.com/

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Diana
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posted February 19, 2010 08:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Diana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Geocosmic,


I guess it's subjective. I am not saying it's wrong, but it just doesn't knock me over. It seems to generalized to me. I don't really associate hearts with Valentine's Day, although I know I am in the minority with that, because most people do think of the heart shape with valentine's day. But even if I did, a heart symbol as the opening of the show doesn't equal "Valentine" to me. I just think it's a stretch.


Now, if the show had 'Valentine' in the title, I would be more swayed.

Also, rasperri and I both have it conjunct our suns as well...

It's too bad her name on the show wasn't different, because that would probably floor me, if it was conjunct her sun.I think 'valentine' is too generic. JMO.

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Geocosmic* Valentine
Knowflake

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From: New York, NY
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posted February 19, 2010 08:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic* Valentine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's kinda funny that I get what you mean that it would pop out if her character had a different name, yet I see both sides of the coin (How's that for ambiguity). When I first saw Valentine next to her Sun, I was looking at the synastry between her and her ex-husband Desi Arnaz aka Ricky Ricardo. I've started putting Valentine in synastry charts just for my own amusement and when I saw Valentine show up right on her Sun, my reaction was a kind of sarcastic "Well, YEAH! Of course! Duh!" More like I wasn't surprised, like it was a no-brainer that it should be there. More like an enhancement.

When I see really good looking men or women, I always assume there is a connection between their Mars and Neptune and I'm right about 85 percent of the time.

...or Venus-Uranus connection, they can give you that Michael Jackson/Elvis Presley thing-smile, whatever.

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crabbypatty
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posted February 19, 2010 09:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for crabbypatty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yup, another one here who's glad to see you back, GCV!

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amowls*
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posted February 19, 2010 10:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amowls*     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think they're fun. I don't tend to focus too much on them unless they are conjunct a major point or planet or if they aspect their "partner" (ie: Eros to Psyche). Like, I really don't pay attention to aspect formations like Karma square Isis opposite Lust. Whoop-dee-doo.

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Sanchenuss
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posted February 19, 2010 10:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sanchenuss     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
entire thread waiting for IQ to confirm.........
IQ can you confirm.........

LOL

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