posted April 15, 2014 02:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by page one:
I'll say it again, if natal vs persona isn't yielding many contacts, try comparing the same persona charts for each partner. I haven't really made a habit of looking for natal vs persona, because for "soulmate" partnerships in particular, the results for persona vs persona can be INSANE.

I also believe that talk of "triggering archetypes" sounds too much like looking for whatever astrology theory you adhere to to manifest itself in some obvious visual way in a chart, and that hardly ever happens.

Why the Amor persona for the love of your life? Why not Venus, or Juno? Or the Moon, for that matter? And why might an asteroid like Valentine or Amor show strong dynamics in the persona, but hardly be aspected in the natal? Is that a fluke result, or is it important?

---

Hi, page one

Can you post some INSANE "soulmate" examples persona vs. persona, with weak persona vs. natal connections? Thanks

As you can see from the OP and the examples in this thread, we did consider various combinations of natal vs. persona and persona vs. persona pertaining to possible significant connections, all based on archetypes. Persona vs. persona is usually significant where there is a natal vs. persona strong connection as well.

I also believe that talk of "triggering archetypes" sounds too much like looking for whatever astrology theory you adhere to to manifest itself in some obvious visual way in a chart, and that hardly ever happens.

This is not exactly a theory, more like a hypothesis, that's why I'm interested in you challenging it with your examples. And for the last part of your statement, in astrology usually a valid theory manifests itself visually in a chart in an obvious way, the chart being a visual tool per se.

posted April 15, 2014 02:30 PM            

They are definitely great loves for me, though of course devoid of any romantic impliations, just family love.

oh POF is on 13 Cap, exact conjunct LUST; and funnily Mr Sag`s name asteroid in my natal falls onto 13 Cap as well. .

Using the day formula POF is on 12 Gemini, right on my natl KAALI-INANNEN on 12 Gemini and conj. my SN. interesting.

do you make a difference bewteen night and day formula for PoF?

posted April 15, 2014 02:41 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Thank you, Leeloo, cool interpretation.
I am not attracted to Aquarius-men though, thogh interestingly some of my best friends have their Sun or Moon at around 15-18 Aquarius,c onjunct my Moon.
my brother`s ASC falls there, as well as my Dad`s Venus-Jupiter-conjunction.

They are definitely great loves for me, though of course devoid of any romantic impliations, just family love.

oh POF is on 13 Cap, exact conjunct LUST; and funnily Mr Sag`s name asteroid in my natal falls onto 13 Cap as well. .

Using the day formula POF is on 12 Gemini, right on my natl KAALI-INANNEN on 12 Gemini and conj. my SN. interesting.

do you make a difference bewteen night and day formula for PoF?

---

Ahh...you haven't met the right Aquarius yet, that's for sure

posted April 15, 2014 02:45 PM            

my natal PoF would be on 15 Libra if I use the night-formula

posted April 15, 2014 02:48 PM            

ROFL his AmorPersona Sun is on 22 Aquarius. I almost forgot. his natal Amor is conjunct my natal Psyche closely.

posted April 15, 2014 02:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
7 a.m., just a bit before sunrise.

my natal PoF would be on 15 Libra if I use the night-formula

with the day formula it would be 28 Capricorn

---

Then your natal POF is on Venus in this chart. I think 15 Libra must be a critical point, must be related to relationships, I guess, but I don't remember exactly what it brings. However, many critical points are described in a fatalistic manner I consider outdated.

What about your POF in this chart, in Amore?

posted April 15, 2014 02:56 PM            

in my PSYCHE PErsona I have:
PSYCHE 18 Pisces
Venus 17 Pisces
Moon 17 Pisces
(natal JUNO 16.58 Pisces)

Jude`s natal
EROS: 20 PIsces

----------------------

his EROS Persona:

PSYCHE 22 Scorpio
AMOR 22 Pisces
(Sun 20 Pisces)

trine my natal EROS on 21 Cancer. lol

in my EROS Persona

AMOR 24 Pisces

posted April 15, 2014 02:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

What about your POF in this chart, in Amore?

I wonder if it is linked to the mysterious man.

---

13.59 Cap conjunct LUST on 14.14 Cap in 4th house.

posted April 15, 2014 02:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Hi, page one

Can you post some INSANE "soulmate" examples persona vs. persona, with weak persona vs. natal connections? Thanks

As you can see from the OP and the examples in this thread, we did consider various combinations of natal vs. persona and persona vs. persona pertaining to possible significant connections, all based on archetypes. Persona vs. persona is usually significant where there is a natal vs. persona strong connection as well.

[b]I also believe that talk of "triggering archetypes" sounds too much like looking for whatever astrology theory you adhere to to manifest itself in some obvious visual way in a chart, and that hardly ever happens.

This is not exactly a theory, more like a hypothesis, that's why I'm interested in you challenging it with your examples. And for the last part of your statement, in astrology usually a valid theory manifests itself visually in a chart in an obvious way, the chart being a visual tool per se.

I am considering Amor because to me it's the asteroid marking a point in the chart where you find clues about the greatest love, the "love of life" of the native, based on the significance of the word Amor in its original language and its continuity in Latin languages and based on pre-hellenistic mythological connotations of Amor.[/B]

---

Sure, the chart's a visual tool, and you're supposed to just see it, right? Ever see a great chart for a not so great relationship? Even better, a great chart for a relationship that never got off the ground? Of course you have, because everyone's looking for these sure-fire markers that THEORETICALLY should give you a certain result.

Yeah, I've HEARD you're SUPPOSED to use persona charts vs the natal, but I've found good results checking personas for people, such as the Moon charts for Oona and Charlie Chaplin (whose natal moon contacts look a little troublesome), or the Newmans for just about everything. And I never said I didn't find them in natal vs persona, BECAUSE AS I SAID, I've been checking persona vs persona, because the results have been so strong, IN SPITE of what I have heard from those who really don't know that much about it either, BECAUSE THEY ARE A NEW KIND OF CHART.

That said, thank you for confirming the idea of a theoretical/hypothetical bias for Amor, because it's "supposed" to represent the love of your life, not other, bigger markers like Moon or Venus. What if their Amor isn't that strong in the natal? Should it still be considered? Which brings us to the strong persona vs mediocre natal situation I previously mentioned, should it still be considered?

The more you learn about astrology, the more you realise that nothing is certain. Ceri has a strong persona for Amor. Providing persona charts are valid, does this point to her finding a great love, or does this merely point to her drive for finding this in her life?

posted April 15, 2014 03:10 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
13.59 Cap conjunct LUST on 14.14 Cap in 4th house.

conjunct Mr Sag`s name in my chart exactly, also conjunct Jude`s NN-Jupiter-Destinn-Shakespeare conjunction, but we are not talking about that now. lol

---

POF trines Juno squares Jupiter. If the union happens, it will be lasting and comfortable, a very close one (in Cap 4th)

posted April 15, 2014 03:19 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
POF trines Juno squares Jupiter. If the union happens, it will be lasting and comfortable, a very close one (in Cap 4th)

I like POF a lot. I think it's very strong and it's probably the only point in the chart exclusively happy.

---

posted April 15, 2014 03:24 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by page one:
Sure, the chart's a visual tool, and you're supposed to just see it, right? Ever see a great chart for a not so great relationship? Even better, a great chart for a relationship that never got off the ground? Of course you have, because everyone's looking for these sure-fire markers that THEORETICALLY should give you a certain result.

Yeah, I've HEARD you're SUPPOSED to use persona charts vs the natal, but I've found good results checking personas for people, such as the Moon charts for Oona and Charlie Chaplin (whose natal moon contacts look a little troublesome), or the Newmans for just about everything. And I never said I didn't find them in natal vs persona, BECAUSE AS I SAID, I've been checking persona vs persona, because the results have been so strong, IN SPITE of what I have heard from those who really don't know that much about it either, BECAUSE THEY ARE A NEW KIND OF CHART.

That said, thank you for confirming the idea of a theoretical/hypothetical bias for Amor, because it's "supposed" to represent the love of your life, not other, bigger markers like Moon or Venus. What if their Amor isn't that strong in the natal? Should it still be considered? Which brings us to the strong persona vs mediocre natal situation I previously mentioned, should it still be considered?

The more you learn about astrology, the more you realise that nothing is certain. Ceri has a strong persona for Amor. Providing persona charts are valid, does this point to her finding a great love, or does this merely point to her drive for finding this in her life?

---

Page one, there's no need to be so upset, we're all doing research here. Nobody said Persona vs. Persona is not important, look at my OP, it's just that your intervention today has been condescending and gratuitous from the start. I've posted three obvious and famous examples for natal/Amor Persona charts, and you said: "Never mind those. Just look at persona vs. persona". Based on what? Just because you're a having a bad day or something?

I think all charts speak to us if we learn to look at them the right way and relationship charts reflect the relationship, when we learn how to read them. I'm still learning.

Regarding Amor, it's not a "bias", usually asteroids have a more precise meaning, they reflect archetypes. They have mythology behind them, and if you want to try something more specific regarding a matter, an archetype, a specific energy, it's not a bad idea to try an Asteroid Persona chart - it should give you precise indications about the matter. In addition to the natal positions or to planet personas. Usually things fall into place, as Ceri said, in all charts.

There's a theme or several for everyone, we are all here to manifest a specific archetype, to tell a story that astrology can help in deciphering. We are each on our Hero's Journey.

posted April 15, 2014 03:27 PM            

However it is also sextile his AP-Jupiter and AP-Juno on 18 Virgo.

So our PoF`s in the Amor chart are opposite each other, and additionally my AP-JUNO is exactly conjunct his natal Jupiter on 11 Virgo

and his AP-JUNO and AP Jupitr are opposite my natal Juno on 17 Pisces (my natal Jupiter is not so far away either on 11 Pisces).

So this seems to be a Jupiter-Juno-pattern from Virgo to Pisces, with the involvement of both AP PoF. I wonder what that is about.

oh and my AP PoF is trine his natal Jupiter.
his AP POF trines my natal Juno exact.

posted April 15, 2014 03:40 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Interestingly, in Mr Sags amor chart PoF is on 16 Cancer, exactly on my natal Saturn.

However it is also sextile his AP-Jupiter and AP-Juno on 18 Virgo.

So our PoF`s in the Amor chart are opposite each other, and additionally my AP-JUNO is exactly conjunct his natal Jupiter on 11 Virgo

and his AP-JUNO and AP Jupitr are opposite my natal Juno on 17 Pisces (my natal Jupiter is not so far away either on 11 Pisces).

So this seems to be a Jupiter-Juno-pattern from Virgo to Pisces, with the involvement of both AP PoF. I wonder what that is about.

oh and my AP PoF is trine his natal Jupiter.
his AP POF trines my natal Juno exact.

I find that also interesting cause Juno and Jupiter were highlighted when we first met. Then Transiting Jupiter was conjunct our composite Moon and my natal Sun/Moon-mp, while transiting Juno was conjunct our composite Sun and his natal Sun/moon-mp.

---

Well, Juno Jupiter is the ultimate symbol for an "official" relationship. Probably you would be a solid, good pair, based on the other aspects as well, especially Sun conjunct Moon and the ASC activity.

posted April 15, 2014 03:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
So I was looking at the North Node Persona chart of our first meeting chart, as to what the purpose of the meeting is.

[/URL]

---

Wow, an Eight-Pointed Star...nice
Vesta again
NN conjunct Jupiter...very nice and on MC
POF in 7th
Purpose: to fall in love

Obviously, the star is not exact, but the pattern is there, this is the tendency, and in this case, I would consider the NN/MC/IC axis as one.

posted April 15, 2014 04:03 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

Virgo Pisces?.. I wonder if there are any nodes or at least Vx on this axis for any of you. And you said his Amor must have something Virgo?

---

There is a streng Virgo-Pisces-relation with me exhibiting a bit more of the PIsces side (despite him having Pisces-ASC) and him more on the Virgo side.

As you know we both have sTellia in Sagittarius (his Sun, Moon, Mercury, chartruler Neptune and MC - my Sun, Mercury, Mars, Neptune, NN and ASC, also for both of us this includeds the DESC-ruler), so this sign is definitely important, and I think its dispositor would be as well, which means for me having a look at Jupiter (did I REALLY Ask what the Jupiter-Juno-thing is about? lol It is written into the natals through Jupiter alone!

Jupiter is even more important as it rules my ASC and his MC, and if we use traditional rulership, also rules his ASC; mars is the ruler of his intercepted Aries in 1st house anyway, and he has a one degree conjunction of Mars-Jupiter.

Now this Mars-Jupiter of his falls into Virgo in his 6th house. No not just anywhere in Virgo, on 10 and 11 degrees of that sign.

With his Jupiter in Virgo, he has a slight resonance with Jupiter-Mercury, and as a matter of fact his Jupiter and Mercury are in mutual reception and in square.

my Jupiter on the other hand is in Pisces, no not anwayhwere in Pisces, 11 degrees of Pisces.
And like he has Jupiter-Mercury resonance, I have Jupiter-Neptune resonance, as my Jupiter is in mutual reception and in square with Neptune in my chart.

As you have probably noticed his Mars-Jupiter is very tightly, even exactly opposite my Jupiter, with this being both chartrulers (plus his MC-ruler).

It also means that while we have a Moon-Sun-CONJUNCTION in Sagittarius, the dispositors of his MOon and my Sun are closely opposite each other, on the axis of Virgo (him) and Pisces (me).

Subtly resonating with this is the fact that we additionally have an exact Mercury (Virgo)-Neptune (Pisces)-conjunction.
His Mercury - my Neptune.

Not just anywhere as you probably guessed, but on 9 Sagittarius, emphasizing the other end and the SHARED end of both natal mutual receptions. Additionally on my ASC and NN, and involving his DESC and IC-ruler.

WE do have another wider Mercury-Neptune-conjunction, too, that I don`t often mention, cause we already have one. lol
But this time it is his chartuler Neptune on 20 Sag conjunct my DESC-ruler Mercury on 25 Sagittarius. And yes, hard to not see how my DESC-ruler is so tied to our Sun-Moon-conjunction. lol

---------------------------------------

and then the other thing that occurs is, his ASC on 25 Pisces, his POF on 26 Pisces, his DESC on 25 Virgo, his Saturn on 26 Virgo, his Vertex on 28 Virgo.

I donīt have anything on these degrees except in my Draconic chart; there I have:

ASC on 26 Pisces
Mars on 25 Pisces
Amor on 22 Pisces
Neptune on 29 Pisces

----------------------

oh I forgot to add in relation to his Mars-Jupiter conjunction on 10 and 11 Virgo, oposing my Jupiter on 11 Pisces, ther are some asteroids involved, in his chart mostly.

AMOR on 9 Virgo
his name on 10 Virgo
Jupiter on 10 Virgo
Mars on 11 Virgo

EROS on 9 Pisces
my name on 8 Pisces

and then of course in my natal
Jupiter on 11 Pisces
Ceres on 9 Pisces

Interestingly, when we met, both our progressed Psyche (they are closely conjunct) had progressd to a one degree conjunction with his EROS.

My transiting name was conjunct it as well, while his transiting name was squaring from 7 Gemini, right on my DESC. lol

posted April 15, 2014 04:15 PM            

"NN conjunct Jupiter...very nice and on MC
POF in 7th
Purpose: to fall in love "

and with Jupiter I hope happily.

"Obviously, the star is not exact, but the pattern is there, this is the tendency, and in this case, I would consider the NN/MC/IC axis as one."
NN is so close to MC that I would agree with you.

posted April 15, 2014 04:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
What do you think about Yods in persona charts?

---

posted April 15, 2014 04:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
"Wow, an Eight-Pointed Star...nice "
an eight-pointed star? Where do you see this?

"NN conjunct Jupiter...very nice and on MC
POF in 7th
Purpose: to fall in love "

and with Jupiter I hope happily.

"Obviously, the star is not exact, but the pattern is there, this is the tendency, and in this case, I would consider the NN/MC/IC axis as one."
NN is so close to MC that I would agree with you.

"One of the meanings for eight and the eight-pointed configuration is "wedding", the other one is "resurrection"."
That is interesting. can you elaborate on this some more? I never heard of it before, and what kind of eight-pointed configurations do you have in mind?

---

Octagon, eight-pointed star. You have two Crosses intertwined: interestingly, the Fixed Cross with the Mutable Cross. In this case, you should have a lot of 8th harmonics aspects between all points. Even in the case the star is not perfect, like this one, there is a tendency, a "drive" towards its perfect alignment, I think (perfect is rare, like in the case of the current Cardinal Cross) - but the pattern is there, and it involves angles, nodes and Vx/Ax altogether.

I shall have to look for references about 8 tomorrow.

posted April 15, 2014 04:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Would you pay attention to Yods with asteroids?

And has any of you done your first name asteroid persona? I'm about to do it

---