posted July 05, 2015 06:25 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SoaringLeaves:
At a logical level I am perfectly aware that I have to regard these reactions detached, but any negative emotions feel like a punch in the gut.

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Purely from a Human Design perspective, this can be the anthem of the open Solar Plexus I've come as far as being able to tell which emotions are mine and which are not, but I still feel them. I can be the happiest person on Earth, and if someone with a defined Solar Plexus, who's feeling down, comes close this immediately affects me even if I know that *I* am actually happy. I kind of stop "feeling" my own emotion and get overwhelmed by the other's emotions. It takes a lot of effort to reconnect with and restore my original emotional state.

I think meditation helps in managing this, and I recently started keeping a dream journal and 'getting to know' my subconscious mind, and all this serves as an "anchor" to my true feelings.

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
But if you learn not to take people's reactions personally, meaning, if you understand that you're carrying the energy of Pluto and giving expression to it and not identifying with it, the drawbacks will either cease being operational or you won't be affected by them.

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"Not taking it personally" has been my mantra for a while and it helps a lot. Next step is to learn to "observe" the emotions that flow through me, so that I won't be affected by them. Again, so far meditation seems like the best thing to help in this process.

posted July 05, 2015 05:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SoaringLeaves:
At a logical level I am perfectly aware that I have to regard these reactions detached, but any negative emotions feel like a punch in the gut.

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I know how that feels having a preponderance of water in my chart and a Moon-Neptune square, despite having a defined Solar Plexus center. I wasn't suggesting not to feel in the moment when things are happening. That would hardly be a helpful thing to suggest and it would be wrong. But, afterwards, I find it helpful to remember it's not personal.

I also have found it very helpful afterwards when I'm quiet and alone to run through what the person said to me, only this time, I try to see what the person was feeling and needing behind their words, instead of thinking about what they said. I've found that by looking at criticism and judgment as expressions of unmet needs, I can empathize with the person, and that helps to dispel the negative feelings I have either toward the person or the situation.

posted July 06, 2015 10:03 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:
I've come as far as being able to tell which emotions are mine and which are not, but I still feel them. I can be the happiest person on Earth, and if someone with a defined Solar Plexus, who's feeling down, comes close this immediately affects me even if I know that *I* am actually happy. I kind of stop "feeling" my own emotion and get overwhelmed by the other's emotions. It takes a lot of effort to reconnect with and restore my original emotional state.

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YES, YES, that's exactly how I feel!! I'm having a fine time then out of the blue I start thinking about problems that I never had in my entire life. For instance I never wanted kids, so I don't have any, but I would start dreading about some kids problem. Then suddenly I'm depressed and worried, while rationally I know that it isn't me. This isn't even the worst case scenario. When I feel that someone is critical towards me (without being verbal) and I know that I have no fault, it can become depressing for a different reason: I can't defend myself because the other has never *expressed* his/her criticism and defending yourself without being accused is regarded by our society as proof of guilt (I learned this the hard way). I'm sure this situation happens a lot, but most people are blissfully ignorant about it.

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
SaturnFan made a wonderful suggestion about meditation. I'm sure you'll find what works for you.

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Thank you both for the suggestion. Classic meditating doesn't seem to work for me, but I discovered that if I retreat in the middle of nature for an hour or so, I find my center again. I'm also learning to grow a thicker skin.

About embracing my Pluto, I learned to love all my planets' energies (less Saturn--sorry SaturnFan ). Pluto for instance is bringing me a lot of bright friends/acquaintances who embrace liberal ideas. I used to dislike my chart a lot because it meant huge energy scattered in every direction; but once I found a purpose that unified their energies, my planets seemed to start working somewhat together, not against each other. At least some of the time...

posted July 06, 2015 02:50 PM            

I wonder if you wouldn't mind taking a look and commenting on Jung's HD chart. I'm struck by something Bunnell says here:

"Channel 57-10 supports Gate 10's focus on how to interact with others in order to perfect or assure the Individual's survival. The self-oriented and potentially mutative behaviors of the Individual must survive in order to effect evolutionary change within humanity as a whole." But surely this isn't just about physical survival. Unless I'm reading too much into this, I see a correlation with Jung's life and work: the goal of Individuation and the centrality of the Self in Jungian psychology.

Here's something I find amusing on 7-31 "The Channel of the Alpha." Bunnell again: "It is said of wolves that not all alphas lead packs, but no true alpha will stay in a pack led by another alpha." Amusing, because Jung didn't stay in the "pack" led by Freud, and didn't become the successor that Freud had in mind for him. lol

http://www.geneticmatrix.com/jung-carl_gustav-human-design-chart.html

posted July 07, 2015 07:42 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SoaringLeaves:
Talking about design, it was the dwarf Eris that gave me the major push to follow mine (Eris is actually bigger than Pluto and was described as the "feminine Pluto." It surely felt like Pluto). I used to have an amazing job (or what most people would consider an "amazing" job--stable, great pay, great benefits, great prospects of advancement)... and I was *miserable.* To me, that job was slavery with capital S, and boring at that, which is the Aquarius' utmost no-no. Then in my progressed chart, Eris became conjunct my IC (0°40 orb), bringing with it a change regarding my home and allowing me professional freedom. Overnight I decided to quit that "perfect" job in order to follow my dream (switching from generator to manifesting-generator). I'm happier than I've ever been before and I genuinely believe that, at last, I follow my design.

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posted July 07, 2015 08:24 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
Hi SaturnFan

I wonder if you wouldn't mind taking a look and commenting on Jung's HD chart. I'm struck by something Bunnell says here:

"Channel 57-10 supports Gate 10's focus on how to interact with others in order to perfect or assure the Individual's survival. The self-oriented and potentially mutative behaviors of the Individual must survive in order to effect evolutionary change within humanity as a whole." But surely this isn't just about physical survival. Unless I'm reading too much into this, I see a correlation with Jung's life and work: the goal of Individuation and the centrality of the Self in Jungian psychology.

Here's something I find amusing on 7-31 "The Channel of the Alpha." Bunnell again: "It is said of wolves that not all alphas lead packs, but no true alpha will stay in a pack led by another alpha." Amusing, because Jung didn't stay in the "pack" led by Freud, and didn't become the successor that Freud had in mind for him. lol

http://www.geneticmatrix.com/jung-carl_gustav-human-design-chart.html

The link for creating charts only goes back to 1912 I think, which is why I used this one.

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Hey Peony - what a brilliant idea!

The first thing that strikes me is Gate 57. I love it, it's one of the Gates i learned about first. People with this Gate have such strong "in the moment" intuition, that they can be considered psychic. It doesn't work as a premeditated approach, you can't plan it or force it, it just comes to you.

My mother has a defined Gate 57, and 2 of my close friends. I've seen them just "know" people's exact birthdays, detect secret/hidden affairs and relationships, without ANY tangible evidence or indicators, predict outcomes of events. It's never in the form of analysis, it's usually one sentence or one statement only, and even they are surprised to hear themselves say it. It's an amazing Gate!

With Jung it was in operation with a full channel, but it absolutely needs to be considered on its own merits as well. I'm certain that it has contributed to his deep conviction in the existence of an "unseen" intangible world, because he has experienced first-hand through his powerful intuition, how we are all connected to each other unconsciously.

I agree with you that Bunnel's description of the whole channel is only scratching the surface. Gate 10 after all is "The Behaviour of the Self", couple this with the most powerful Gate of intuition (at least in my opinion ) and no wonder you get a mastermind in human psychology. He must be the personification of the highest expression of 57-10!

The Channel of the Alfa description also fits him perfectly, and I agree it's amusing.

It's interesting that both of these channels are connected to the G Centre where the Magnetic Monopole resides. Definite focus on what drives people 'under the surface', the core self.

It's also fascinating that all of his centres are defined except for the ones which capture other people's thoughts. Not only that, but each single Gate in the Head and Ajna is open too. This is very rare. In fact, the only way for him to have his Head centre defined in synastry, other than the other person having a defined Head Centre, is through his hanging Gate 23. He would have attracted a lot of people with Gate 43, defining the entire 43-23 channel which we discussed here recently. This would have enabled him to give very clear and specific articulation to other people's thoughts.

The book I'm reading by him on dreams at the moment, has a section where he shows his methodology in analysing the dreams of his patients, by asking very carefully worded questions in order to make sure that the patient keeps talking and reveals the key information. Looking at his Gate 23 makes me think of this chapter in the book, and that it must have been in operation.

Coming back to the channels, he has 4 in total - each single one is very interesting, but also out of the 4:
3 are in the Collective Circuit (destined to impact humanity on a larger scale)
1 (57-10) is in the Integration Circuit, guaranteeing that he follows his own process and is true to himself, in order to fully express the potential of the other 3 channels.

His incarnation cross falls in the Quarter of Civilisation, again reinforcing the theme of impacting humanity. I just checked Bunnel's book and look how this Quarter is described "the sharing, supporting and and empowering of the full scope of humanity's potential to express its intelligence". Wow!

And his Incarnation cross in particular: Right Angle Cross of the Unexpected: "People with the inherent power to attract the Collective's attention, who become our unexpected leaders or heroes; their nurturing influence is discovered and acclaimed in the midst of the unexpected".

His Personality Sun at Gate 31 is very significant: apart from being part of the Alpha Channel, again it should be considered on its own merit. The Gate of Influence. His HD chart is so powerful!

I'll read some more about his other placements and share anything interesting I find. What a fascinating case study!!!

posted July 08, 2015 02:20 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:
With Jung it was in operation with a full channel, but it absolutely needs to be considered on its own merits as well. I'm certain that it has contributed to his deep conviction in the existence of an "unseen" intangible world, because he has experienced first-hand through his powerful intuition, how we are all connected to each other unconsciously.

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Okay, now I'm going to on the lookout for this Gate. Thanks for pointing it out!

quote:

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I agree with you that Bunnel's description of the whole channel is only scratching the surface. Gate 10 after all is "The Behaviour of the Self", couple this with the most powerful Gate of intuition (at least in my opinion ) and no wonder you get a mastermind in human psychology. He must be the personification of the highest expression of 57-10!

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SaturnFan, there's a story about Jung which shows Gate 57 in action. I'm sure there are many others, but this one is my favorite. I find it so moving.

It concerns a patient, a young woman who was experiencing a spiritual crisis and had "lost her faith," as Jung put it. The day before his first meeting with her, he dreamed that a young girl came to him as a patient. As she was explaining her case, he couldn't make head or tail what she was talking about when suddenly it occurred to him that she had an "unusual father complex."

The next day on his calendar, a young woman came to see him. As he was going about the session, he could not understand what the problem was. Then he remembered his dream and realized this was the young girl from the dream. But, there was no evidence of a father complex. So he asked her about her grandfather. Briefly, she closed her eyes and he realized immediately what her problem was. He learned that her grandfather had been a rabbi. Then, he asked her if he was a "zaddik," which is the Jewish equivalent of a "guru" among East Indians. A very revered person. She told him her grandfather was a saint and was psychic, the latter she thought was nonsense. Here's where Gate 57 kicked in, he tells her:

"Now I'm going to tell you something that you may not be able to accept. Your grandfather was a zaddik. Your father became an apostate to the Jewish faith. He betrayed the secret and turned his back on God. And you have your neurosis because the fear of God has got into you." The effect on her was like being "struck by a bolt of lightening," he said.

The following night he has another dream. A reception was being held at his house. This girl was there too. She came up to him and asked if he had an umbrella. He found one and was fumbling around trying to open it. As he was about to give it to her, and as he hands it to her, he's on his knees, as if she was a goddess.

The dream showed that she was not just a shallow person, that in truth she had the makings of a saint. He told her this dream and within a week, her neurosis vanished completely.

The man was a genius!

EDIT: I just checked Milton Erickson's (hypnotherapist) HD chart, who popped into my mind when I wrote the last sentence, and he also has a defined 57-10! Same uncanny intuition and in his line of work, like Jung, must have had that special insight into the unconscious.

quote:

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It's interesting that both of these channels are connected to the G Centre where the Magnetic Monopole resides. Definite focus on what drives people 'under the surface', the core self.

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As a psychiatrist or therapist, what do you think is a greater asset, a defined or undefined G center?

quote:

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It's also fascinating that all of his centres are defined except for the ones which capture other people's thoughts. Not only that, but each single Gate in the Head and Ajna is open too. This is very rare. In fact, the only way for him to have his Head centre defined in synastry, other than the other person having a defined Head Centre, is through his hanging Gate 23. He would have attracted a lot of people with Gate 43, defining the entire 43-23 channel which we discussed here recently. This would have enabled him to give very clear and specific articulation to other people's thoughts.

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I thought Freud would have a defined Gate 43, but he has a defined 23 (black) like Jung, but Jung's is red, and Freud has all the same defined centers, except for his Root, which is undefined.

quote:

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The book I'm reading by him on dreams at the moment, has a section where he shows his methodology in analysing the dreams of his patients, by asking very carefully worded questions in order to make sure that the patient keeps talking and reveals the key information. Looking at his Gate 23 makes me think of this chapter in the book, and that it must have been in operation.

---

I think the story about Jung's patient demonstrates this methodology also. I was thinking in the example Gate 57 was being shown. Did I get this wrong?

I noticed that Jung's Gate 23 is connected with Pluto, both Design and Personality. What does this mean? In other words, how would you synthesize these two placements or what's the dynamic between Gate and planet?

quote:

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Coming back to the channels, he has 4 in total - each single one is very interesting, but also out of the 4:
3 are in the Collective Circuit (destined to impact humanity on a larger scale)
1 (57-10) is in the Integration Circuit, guaranteeing that he follows his own process and is true to himself, in order to fully express the potential of the other 3 channels.

His incarnation cross falls in the Quarter of Civilisation, again reinforcing the theme of impacting humanity. I just checked Bunnel's book and look how this Quarter is described "the sharing, supporting and and empowering of the full scope of humanity's potential to express its intelligence". Wow!

And his Incarnation cross in particular: Right Angle Cross of the Unexpected: "People with the inherent power to attract the Collective's attention, who become our unexpected leaders or heroes; their nurturing influence is discovered and acclaimed in the midst of the unexpected".

His Personality Sun at Gate 31 is very significant: apart from being part of the Alpha Channel, again it should be considered on its own merit. The Gate of Influence. His HD chart is so powerful!

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Thank you for getting into these layers of Incarnation Crosses and Quarters, and more in depth analysis. SaturnFan.

posted July 09, 2015 11:39 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
SaturnFan, there's a story about Jung which shows Gate 57 in action. I'm sure there are many others, but this one is my favorite. I find it so moving.

It concerns a patient, a young woman who was experiencing a spiritual crisis and had "lost her faith," as Jung put it. The day before his first meeting with her, he dreamed that a young girl came to him as a patient. As she was explaining her case, he couldn't make head or tail what she was talking about when suddenly it occurred to him that she had an "unusual father complex."

The next day on his calendar, a young woman came to see him. As he was going about the session, he could not understand what the problem was. Then he remembered his dream and realized this was the young girl from the dream. But, there was no evidence of a father complex. So he asked her about her grandfather. Briefly, she closed her eyes and he realized immediately what her problem was. He learned that her grandfather had been a rabbi. Then, he asked her if he was a "zaddik," which is the Jewish equivalent of a "guru" among East Indians. A very revered person. She told him her grandfather was a saint and was psychic, the latter she thought was nonsense. Here's where Gate 57 kicked in, he tells her:

"Now I'm going to tell you something that you may not be able to accept. Your grandfather was a zaddik. Your father became an apostate to the Jewish faith. He betrayed the secret and turned his back on God. And you have your neurosis because the fear of God has got into you." The effect on her was like being "struck by a bolt of lightening," he said.

The following night he has another dream. A reception was being held at his house. This girl was there too. She came up to him and asked if he had an umbrella. He found one and was fumbling around trying to open it. As he was about to give it to her, and as he hands it to her, he's on his knees, as if she was a goddess.

The dream showed that she was not just a shallow person, that in truth she had the makings of a saint. He told her this dream and within a week, her neurosis vanished completely.

The man was a genius!

EDIT: I just checked Milton Erickson's (hypnotherapist) HD chart, who popped into my mind when I wrote the last sentence, and he also has a defined 57-10! Same uncanny intuition and in his line of work, like Jung, must have had that special insight into the unconscious.

---

Wow, this is an amazing story! A brilliant example of how 57-10 can manifest. Love it!

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
As a psychiatrist or therapist, what do you think is a greater asset, a defined or undefined G center?

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Hmmm!

A defined G centre will always be permanently anchored in their identity, and will be able to draw from it in order to guide the patient. The psychiatrist/therapist will be the "source" of bringing in individuation.

An open G centre will be able to immediately "feel" the patient's core self and steer them gently towards it, help them reconnect with it. In this case, the patient will be the "source".

Both can be a great asset, I think it's a matter of what the patient needs on one hand, and how the therapist/psychiatrist is destined to 'help' others on the other hand. A therapist with an open G centre would be much more empathic, partnering up with the patient in the process. A defined G centre would shield the therapist significantly, so while they can still be very empathic, their approach might me much more analytical and scientific. As in, they could be very involved during the session, investing their entire energy to help the patient, but once the session is over they quickly switch back to "Hm, this was curious, let me write this down" or "I wonder how many cases of this or that have been recorded in the past year, I should check". While a therapist with an open G centre might need much more time to "shake off" the energy of a session.

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
I think the story about Jung's patient demonstrates this methodology also. I was thinking in the example Gate 57 was being shown. Did I get this wrong?

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Not at all, this was Gate 57 at its finest!

What I meant about his Gate 23 is that it helps him articulate his thoughts in a very clear and impactful way. For example, Gate 57 will have provided him with her ancestral information, but Gate 23 will have helped him put it this way:

quote:

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"Now I'm going to tell you something that you may not be able to accept. Your grandfather was a zaddik. Your father became an apostate to the Jewish faith. He betrayed the secret and turned his back on God. And you have your neurosis because the fear of God has got into you." The effect on her was like being "struck by a bolt of lightening," he said.

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In the book I'm reading, his methodology is around asking very specific questions, which enable the patient to connect even with areas they find uncomfortable, in order to decipher their dreams. You need very precise (Gate 23) and intuitive (Gate 57) wording to achieve this. In the story you shared, he did start with asking questions and then when the moment was right he shared a message which struck his patient. I think Gate 23 helped him do this in such a sophisticated and sensitive way.

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
I noticed that Jung's Gate 23 is connected with Pluto, both Design and Personality. What does this mean? In other words, how would you synthesize these two placements or what's the dynamic between Gate and planet?

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Interesting!
Gate 23 is about the expression and structuring of thought patterns. According to Human Design (I think it was in Bunnel's book), the Gate which Pluto defines in a chart is where the biggest transformation will take place. I'm not familiar with Jung's biography so I'm not sure how this applies to him personally, but most certainly considering the rest of his HD chart (all the indicators of impacting humanity) Pluto's position in his HD chart enabled him to transform humanity's perception about how the conscious and unconscious mind work.

This is a generational placement since Pluto moves slowly, a lot of people would have had a defined Gate 23 during his time - but his was meant to manifest the energy on a 'collective' level.

Even visually it makes sense. He has 7 defined centres and the only Gate reaching out to his completely open Head and Ajna is Gate 23, defined by Pluto. It looks like a bridge connecting humanity's conscious and unconscious mind, which he's entirely open to, to his incredibly powerful definition, meant to transform us. It's beautiful

posted July 11, 2015 11:44 PM            

I find her book to be more in line with my writing/reading style as opposed to Chetan Parkyn. I'll use Gate 14 as an example.

Gate 14 (Chetan): The Gate of Prosperity

This is one of the most potentially fortuitous gates in Human Design. If you have it, you are capable of harvesting great wealth. It all depends on whether your considerable capabilities are applied in the direction of passions that mean something to you and further the good of everyone else. Please note this gate's motto: "Passion projects with the universal good in mind can lead to prosperity."

Prosperity can mean you accumulate great wealth or find yourself managing everyone else's. Somewhere in your being there is a knack for handling resources, be that currency, property, or fields of corn. Either way, this gate represents possessions on a grand scale and the potential for expansive success.

It is in fact a mix of fate and good fortune. Fate is said to give wealth to whomever she wishes and, while everyone is given the choice to feel wealthy regardless of their access to resources, this gate senses that it is all a matter of perspective. You have, without doubt, the ability and commitment to drive projects through to a successful end, and you drive can generate great financial reward when it is applied in the right direction. What you will come to realize is that being comfortable and confident around finances and assets is something that can come naturally to you, and any responsibility that comes with prosperity needn't faze you.

Gate 14 (Curry): Power Skills

I Ching: Possession in Great Measure
Astrology: Scorpio/Sagittarius

Gate 14 is a purely generated gate. Here we have the energy for working to make money. But it's not only working for money, it can be responding to opportunities to generate resources. This is the energy for power skills, important social connections, and all the things we think of when we think of wealth.

There can be a certain amount of luck associated with this gate. When people with this energy respond, the response is about creating wealth in some way. Being born with this energy can be like having a natural 'inheritance,' and because making money can sometimes be so easy for people with this gate, they often don't care about the physical trappings of wealth.

This energy flows into a desire to make a contribution to humanity. People with Gate 14 understand that nothing gets done on the planet without finances. But it's not personal finance, like we see in the Ego Circuit. This is merely about working for the right thing, to give it energy to ultimately be expressed.

Affirmations: I trust and know that as long as I am following my strategy, I am fully supported in all my endeavors.
My unlimited capacity to create gives me support, and I use my support to fulfill my life purpose.

==========================================

posted July 12, 2015 10:34 AM              

Generator 5/1
Inner Authority: Emotional - Solar Plexus
Incarnation Cross: Left Angle Cross of Confrontation (26/45 | 6/36)

posted July 12, 2015 05:24 PM            

Glad to have you join the conversation. It may be a few days before you hear from SaturnFan, but I'm sure she will have some interesting things to say about your Human Design chart.

Meanwhile, if you'd like to know what "5/1" means where it says "Generator 5/1," here's a link:
http://www.humandesign.com/left-angle-profile-5-1

posted July 12, 2015 05:28 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SDragon:
Just picked up a new Human Design book: Understanding Human Design by Karen Curry.

I find her book to be more in line with my writing/reading style as opposed to Chetan Parkyn. I'll use Gate 14 as an example.

Gate 14 (Chetan): The Gate of Prosperity

This is one of the most potentially fortuitous gates in Human Design. If you have it, you are capable of harvesting great wealth. It all depends on whether your considerable capabilities are applied in the direction of passions that mean something to you and further the good of everyone else. Please note this gate's motto: "Passion projects with the universal good in mind can lead to prosperity."

Prosperity can mean you accumulate great wealth or find yourself managing everyone else's. Somewhere in your being there is a knack for handling resources, be that currency, property, or fields of corn. Either way, this gate represents possessions on a grand scale and the potential for expansive success.

It is in fact a mix of fate and good fortune. Fate is said to give wealth to whomever she wishes and, while everyone is given the choice to feel wealthy regardless of their access to resources, this gate senses that it is all a matter of perspective. You have, without doubt, the ability and commitment to drive projects through to a successful end, and you drive can generate great financial reward when it is applied in the right direction. What you will come to realize is that being comfortable and confident around finances and assets is something that can come naturally to you, and any responsibility that comes with prosperity needn't faze you.

Gate 14 (Curry): Power Skills

I Ching: Possession in Great Measure
Astrology: Scorpio/Sagittarius

Gate 14 is a purely generated gate. Here we have the energy for working to make money. But it's not only working for money, it can be responding to opportunities to generate resources. This is the energy for power skills, important social connections, and all the things we think of when we think of wealth.

There can be a certain amount of luck associated with this gate. When people with this energy respond, the response is about creating wealth in some way. Being born with this energy can be like having a natural 'inheritance,' and because making money can sometimes be so easy for people with this gate, they often don't care about the physical trappings of wealth.

This energy flows into a desire to make a contribution to humanity. People with Gate 14 understand that nothing gets done on the planet without finances. But it's not personal finance, like we see in the Ego Circuit. This is merely about working for the right thing, to give it energy to ultimately be expressed.

Affirmations: I trust and know that as long as I am following my strategy, I am fully supported in all my endeavors.
My unlimited capacity to create gives me support, and I use my support to fulfill my life purpose.

==========================================

I just picked up the book today and will read it some more. There's not any 'new' concepts and most repeat the same Centers, Gates, Channels, but I do like the style of the writing, feeling like it flows more than Chetan's.

---

SDragon, thanks for the info on Curry's book. It's good to know what's out there and what people think of sources. So, appreciate your taking the time to report!

posted July 19, 2015 08:32 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by SaturnFan:
A defined G centre will always be permanently anchored in their identity, and will be able to draw from it in order to guide the patient. The psychiatrist/therapist will be the "source" of bringing in individuation.

An open G centre will be able to immediately "feel" the patient's core self and steer them gently towards it, help them reconnect with it. In this case, the patient will be the "source".

Both can be a great asset, I think it's a matter of what the patient needs on one hand, and how the therapist/psychiatrist is destined to 'help' others on the other hand. A therapist with an open G centre would be much more empathic, partnering up with the patient in the process. A defined G centre would shield the therapist significantly, so while they can still be very empathic, their approach might me much more analytical and scientific. As in, they could be very involved during the session, investing their entire energy to help the patient, but once the session is over they quickly switch back to "Hm, this was curious, let me write this down" or "I wonder how many cases of this or that have been recorded in the past year, I should check". While a therapist with an open G centre might need much more time to "shake off" the energy of a session.

---

I find this very interesting. Thank you, Saturn Fan. My ex is a psychotherapist with a defined G center. I'm going to ask him about his design and experiences in his work.

quote:

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Gate 23 is about the expression and structuring of thought patterns. According to Human Design (I think it was in Bunnel's book), the Gate which Pluto defines in a chart is where the biggest transformation will take place. I'm not familiar with Jung's biography so I'm not sure how this applies to him personally, but most certainly considering the rest of his HD chart (all the indicators of impacting humanity) Pluto's position in his HD chart enabled him to transform humanity's perception about how the conscious and unconscious mind work.

---

I think you're right. As for how Pluto/Gate 23 affected him personally, what comes to mind, and I may be wrong, is that Jung was influenced by the German philosopher, Immanuel Kant, who was a major figure in the evolution of the Western world view. Anyway, Kant said that the human mind cannot know the world or reality "as it is," that the human mind acts as a barrier to this knowledge and that all we can know is the world through the filter of our own subjectivity. Jung, I think under the influence of Kant, regarded the archetypes in the same way, that their reality was only psychological. But, if I recall correctly, later in life, his view of the archetypes changed. This makes me think of Gate 23's activity of articulating ideas, in Jung's case regarding the archetypal structures of the universe and the human psyche.

quote:

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Even visually it makes sense. He has 7 defined centres and the only Gate reaching out to his completely open Head and Ajna is Gate 23, defined by Pluto. It looks like a bridge connecting humanity's conscious and unconscious mind, which he's entirely open to, to his incredibly powerful definition, meant to transform us. It's beautiful

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SaturnFan, if you have any HD charts, either of historical persons or people you know that have impressed you or that you find particularly interesting, please feel free to post them. Or, would you mind if I do? I really enjoyed your analysis of Jung's chart. Thanks!

posted July 21, 2015 01:05 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Newrise:

I'd looove to know about my chart. I couldn't find a lot of helpful information on Google : (

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Hi Newrise, glad to have you join us.

Having trouble with the link, which I assume is to your HD chart. Hopefully, it's just on my end.

posted July 21, 2015 06:07 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
Hi Newrise, glad to have you join us.

Having trouble with the link, which I assume is to your HD chart. Hopefully, it's just on my end.

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Thank you Peony!!

I still don't know how to properly post images. :O
http://imgur.com/rYwqgkY

posted July 21, 2015 06:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Selenite:
This is sooo cool!! Still don't know what I'm looking at, but I'll come back later tonight

Generator 5/1
Inner Authority: Emotional - Solar Plexus
Incarnation Cross: Left Angle Cross of Confrontation (26/45 | 6/36)

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Hi Selenite,

Apologies for not responding sooner, I had almost no internet access the past week.

You have a single definition, which means that all of your defined centres are connected to each other and there is no "split" between them. This is very powerful, because you do not need external energy to bridge a split within you.

Not sure if you've had the chance to research your open centres, but in short:
Through your open Head and Ajna you receive other people's ideas and thoughts.
Through your open Throat you are open to their manifestation energy, but you need to be "invited" to use it.
The open Root centre is tricky, because it is connected to adrenalin and since it is not defined in your chart you do not have constant access to this type of energy - instead, you amplify it when received from environment. Many people with an open Root centre do high-adrenalin activities as a hobby (sky-diving, for example) - but this can also manifest in seeking other experiences in your life which get your blood boiling.

Since you have Emotional Authority, I suggest going back about 10 pages in this thread when this was discussed in more detail with peony and venus2tinkerbell - it is a fascinating authority, the most sophisticated one to have according to HD.

All of your 4 channels are interesting. Anything with Gate 57 is amazing, at least to me personally, because it signifies psychic intuition. This must be one of my top favourite Gates Do you find yourself just "knowing" random things occasionally, without any prior analysis or even without the full information?

Here's more info on your channels in case you haven't come across it yet

http://humandesign.com/channel-of-the-archetype-34-57

http://humandesign.com/channel-of-surrender-44-26

http://humandesign.com/channel-of-the-beat-2-14

posted July 21, 2015 06:53 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
SaturnFan, if you have any HD charts, either of historical persons or people you know that have impressed you or that you find particularly interesting, please feel free to post them. Or, would you mind if I do? I really enjoyed your analysis of Jung's chart. Thanks!

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This is a wonderful idea!!! I got inspired to check someone's chart, it might seem like an odd choice but it's Sinead O'Connor. I've always loved her, she's incredibly talented and I have admired her for years after she risked (and sabotaged) her entire career in order to protest against the child abuse issues in the Catholic church. So far I've met only a handful of people who feel the same way though, almost everyone (including people in Ireland, her home country!) say she's crazy and don't take her seriously even though now, years later, the Catholic church admitted to what she shed light on.

So, here's her chart:

Defined Head (= in harmony with her own thoughts) connected to a defined Throat (= ability to voice her thoughts), through Channel 11-56.

This is what humanising.com says about this channel:

quote:

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As part of the Collective Sensing circuit, of course, the 11-56 also has a need to share its interpretation of history - the past. And they have the ability to make up an interpretation of the past and share it with the rest of us. For the 11-56, the Aha! comes when it sparks an idea. It’s important for them that while the idea is to be shared it’s not necessarily a call to action. In the Collective logic circuitry we can share a common pattern that we're all sure of - but with the past that can't be done.

It's simply the fact that everyone's experience of an event is different so there are many interpretations – many pasts, and thus many ideas. This is another projector channel, so whether or not anyone else will resonate the sense of things or the ideas the 11-56 has depends upon whether or not they’ve been recognized or invited to share them.

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I find this very interesting because she was obviously not invited to share her thoughts when she got up on the stage and tore the Pope's picture. Even though what she was saying was true, and her act of rebellion was justified, society rejected her and branded her as crazy. She is having depressive states still and every time this gets out on the news or she shares it (she's very open on Social media) you immediately see a crowd ganging up on her to judge her mental state. She'll always be seen as "crazy" by the majority of people.

On a more positive note,

I think her amazing singing voice, which is like on other on Earth, and her very singular type of music, can all be seen in the defined Throat (=voice) connected to the defined Solar Plexus through Channel 35-36.

Again from humandesign.com:

quote:

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The Channel of Transitoriness - 35-36, links the Throat Center through the 35, the Gate of Progress, to the 36, the Gate of The Darkening of the Light in the Emotional Center. Here we have an emotional manifesting channel, that will try anything and everything, even if there’s no obvious value, to obtain experience.

Over time, gaining all this experience might grant some wisdom of what experiences pay off in terms of value, or it might result in a sense of dejection - that nothing amounts to very much. The creative nature of this channel is definitely NOT personal, but collective, and so it must share what it does with others.

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She has a very turbulent biography which I can tell you about in case you're not familiar, but I think this song of hers, with the lyrics, is the perfect illustration of her 35-36 channel.

Sinead O'Connor - Feel So Different

What do you think?
In case you're interested in her astrological chart, her birth details are:

8 December 1966 07:37
Dublin, Ireland

posted July 21, 2015 07:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Newrise:
Thank you Peony!!

I still don't know how to properly post images. :O
http://imgur.com/rYwqgkY

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Hey Newrise,

Welcome to the thread!

And wow, you're a Manifestor! In Human Design, this is the most "envied" type, because Manifestors are the only ones who can initiate things, while the rest of us have to wait for opportunities, events and people to present themselves

You have a Splenic authority, so you make decisions in the moment, spontaneously, through intuitive awareness. Manifestors are usually their "own person" (I know 3 very closely, 2 are family members), and they cannot tolerate anyone dictating to them how to live their live and what to do. In fact, even friendly non-intrusive advise can be perceived as dictatorial and interfering by a Manifestor. Combined with your Splenic authority, you must very often jump to decisions, even big life-changing ones, which the people around you are puzzled or even irritated by - since they cannot see the logic behind your actions, and you do not see why you have to explain yourself when your decision makes perfect sense to you

I recommend looking into Channel 57-20 since it connects your Spleen (=authority) with Throat centre (= manifesting power). This will show you in more detail how your internal decision making process flows:

http://humandesign.com/channel-of-the-brainwave-20-57

posted July 21, 2015 02:13 PM            

What I am still confounded about my chart is that there is a lot of projection energy (line 2 and my channels), what does it mean to have that in a chart?

posted July 21, 2015 05:08 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:
Hi Selenite,

Apologies for not responding sooner, I had almost no internet access the past week.

You have a single definition, which means that all of your defined centres are connected to each other and there is no "split" between them. This is very powerful, because you do not need external energy to bridge a split within you.

Not sure if you've had the chance to research your open centres, but in short:
Through your open Head and Ajna you receive other people's ideas and thoughts.
Through your open Throat you are open to their manifestation energy, but you need to be "invited" to use it.
The open Root centre is tricky, because it is connected to adrenalin and since it is not defined in your chart you do not have constant access to this type of energy - instead, you amplify it when received from environment. Many people with an open Root centre do high-adrenalin activities as a hobby (sky-diving, for example) - but this can also manifest in seeking other experiences in your life which get your blood boiling.

Since you have Emotional Authority, I suggest going back about 10 pages in this thread when this was discussed in more detail with peony and venus2tinkerbell - it is a fascinating authority, the most sophisticated one to have according to HD.

All of your 4 channels are interesting. Anything with Gate 57 is amazing, at least to me personally, because it signifies psychic intuition. This must be one of my top favourite Gates Do you find yourself just "knowing" random things occasionally, without any prior analysis or even without the full information?

Here's more info on your channels in case you haven't come across it yet

http://humandesign.com/channel-of-the-archetype-34-57

http://humandesign.com/channel-of-surrender-44-26

http://humandesign.com/channel-of-the-beat-2-14

http://humandesign.com/channel-of-mating-59-6

---

Woah! Don't worry at all, thanks so much for the info I really, really appreciate your descriptions. I have an eclectic religion, but I practice magic and this is all so useful for working with energy. I'll definitely read more about it.

I do find that I 'just know' a lot of things (universe-logic). I have known for a while that I 'just know' things that take some people lifetimes to figure out or even start thinking about.. Maybe it's cliche but that's how I've always felt, everyone has stuff they're born knowing and my stuff is mostly spiritual (Moon in the 9th maybe). If you meant 'knowing things' like when someone you love is in a crisis, when something is going to work out or not, what time it is right when you wake up - I get those pretty often too. I have a lot of lucky hunches.

I definitely find it easy to receive others' ideas and thoughts, whether through conversation or telepathically. I've thought I was going crazy at times, but I'm learning to just trust my intuition. I can work off of very vague ideas and vibes, and connect with people who don't speak the same language as me. That's why astrology works so well for me. Lol

The open root makes sense. I am very affected by my environment - it can either suck the life out of me or have me bouncing off the walls. I used to seek out thrills all the time, more so than the average teenager, just to see if I could get away with them

Thanks again

edit -
"This is why they are Archetypes. These people are designed to be Archetypes. of being human. They are pure in their focus to be alive. Like an arrow in the sky their life force shoots by you. It is neither shared with you nor meant to empower you. It is simply alive."

posted July 24, 2015 12:10 AM            

quote:

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This is another projector channel, so whether or not anyone else will resonate the sense of things or the ideas the 11-56 has depends upon whether or not they’ve been recognized or invited to share them.

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So, does this mean that even though she's not a Projector, because this is a projector channel, the key to success in expressing it is to wait for the invitation?

Noticing her defined Gate 1 and 43, and 2-14 Channel, all of which are in the Individual Circuit Group, these indicate she's a creative personality, someone with unique insight, and listening to the beat of her own drum. So, isn't she an instrument of "mutation" and therefore is it inevitable that she would clash with an establishment structure, in this case, the Catholic Church? Or, if she had been aware of her design, could she have accomplished her task without becoming an outcast?

quote:

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In case you're interested in her astrological chart, her birth details are:

8 December 1966 07:37
Dublin, Ireland

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I will take a look at her chart, but already I'm not surprised. She's an outspoken Sagittarius, born under a Uranus-Pluto conjunction, possibly square her Sun, which would account for the turbulent life she's led. But, I'll check it out.

quote:

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Who should we cover next?

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How about Dane Rudhyar? He's such an important figure in the history of astrology. But if you have someone you'd like to study, be my guest.