Posts: 9968
From: Australia
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posted February 16, 2009 06:05 AM         

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Awwwwwww AG

Your Valentine message to everyone was beautiful.

I hope you know how much we value you.

I just think you're fabulous. An absolute sweetheart.

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posted February 16, 2009 06:10 AM         

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Bang on P.A, I can identify with that very much.

Another astrological factor that frequently rears it's head and gets castigated as relationship doom is Mars/Saturn.

But with Mars at the Apex of a T-Square I don't think it is altogether bad.

In my life people have featured powerfully who have their Saturn at one place or another on my ASC/Mercury/Venus/Mars/NN T-Square.

My dad is right there in the apex with his Aqua Moon. If I am off on one he has the knack of just saying a couple of words to calm me down and put things in perspective.

My husband's Sun/Saturn is in the same spot.

They are the two people I will call for advice if I am getting wound up over something. My Aqua Mars is a temperamental beast.

That's why we need Saturn in relationships, to help fine tune the parts of us that needs it. No-one is so great they deserve a partner who will compliment them perfectly as they are without the need to change. Though reading Astro forum it might seem this is the Holy Grail of relationships. (i.e not liking to see any tense aspects, and blaming the other parties character failings for relationship shortcomings).

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posted February 16, 2009 06:38 AM         

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Mr PA and I have double whammy Moon-Mars squares. Our Moons are conjunct. His Saturn conjuncts my Mercury. And my Moon conjuncts his Mercury. His Sun is trine my Pluto. His Jupiter sits right next to my 1 degree Uranus & DC conjunction in Libra (though Uranus is in 6th house). His Sun is square my Venus. And then his Venus is conjunct my North Node.

It's a mixed bag. 15 years on and it's not perfect, but like I've said before, I wouldn't want to be with anyone else. A lot of it works simply because I don't like fighting and let things slide. It's the unimportant stuff. There's a lot of small stuff that happens in relationships. That's the stuff that wears people down eventually. You have to work your way around them. As much as Mr PA is very Saturnian, he is a Capi Sun with Aqua Moon so he has that Uranian side too. I know that when I want to swing things my way, I just wait for that Uranian mood to kick in and my quirky ways appeal to his Aqua Merc. With his Sun in Capi in 7th and Mars in Scorpy in 4th he takes our family and relationship very seriously. I think he tolerates a lot of unpredictability on my part. So he lets things slide too. But Cancer AC is moody and when he's crabby he lets rip and it's not just what is wrong in the moment - it's EVERYTHING. I just roll my eyes and let it pass. If it's something important it stays and gets sorted reasonably. If it's not important and it's a momentary vent, it'll pass as quickly as it came and it goes unmentioned. But if I'm in a rare bad mood and retort to him in one of his bad moods - like telling him he's acting like a child - then it's on - dw Moon-Mars tension is not pleasant to be within. But it's over quite quickly and we go about our thing.

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posted February 16, 2009 06:42 AM         

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When I read the threads in Astro and Astro2, I just think to myself that there are a lot of people looking for this "perfect" relationship where everything goes their way from beginning to the very happily ever after. I really believe that it's because they don't think they can handle any challenges that come their way, so it's easier to not want to be with someone because their Mars squares the other person's Moon, rather than getting in there and having a go at finding love and being happy with someone. That ideal that people desire doesn't exist. I'm highy suspicious of it. If you think that you will have a relationship and there will be no disagreements and it will be blissful every second of every day, then you're in for a rude shock - or worse, no relationship at all. To me, an imperfect one is better than none at all. And to me, that makes it perfect.

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posted February 16, 2009 06:46 AM         

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There's things I put up with about him and vice versa.

It's like any relationship. No-one's perfect, there will always be something you just have to live with as the other person isn't going to change radically.

Just like I'm never going to be sweet and easy-going. But I can be told to calm it down a bit and I will listen if it is done in a sensible way by someone I trust.

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posted February 16, 2009 06:49 AM         

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Words of wisdom, P.A.

Whilst relationships shouldn't be hard work as in wading through treacle, it should be expected that they will take some effort. A bit of compromise, a bit of accepting someone else's imperfections as well as your own. It should be obvious, but apparently it isn't.

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posted February 16, 2009 06:55 AM         

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I think that tolerating thing happens a great deal. And I think it has to. All those things that you hear people say in the early days of a relationship - that quirk that they think is strange but they tell themselves is cute - that's the stuff that 5 years down the track will be grating on their nerves and be bringing the relationship undone. Those lovey-dovey cutesy things are the early warning signs. If he drinks too much before you marry - he's going to drink after. If he spends an amount of time with his mates that makes you uncomfortable, it's not going to change because you both wear wedding rings. If he hits you - it's not gonna get any better because you've made romantic vows. And taking the stance that all fault of all wrongs in the relationship belongs to the other person and if only they would change is being dishonest with yourself. You can either live with those things or you can't. And only time shows that. That's where Saturn fits.

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posted February 16, 2009 06:57 AM         

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bm

Maybe it's just obvious to us because we've gone in where others would fear to tread because Isis did not conjunct Osiris, and also perservered where others would have given up because that undesirable square means making an effort.

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posted February 16, 2009 06:57 AM         

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Amen & well said Miss PA!

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posted February 16, 2009 07:00 AM         

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One of my friends got married with the thought that her hard-drinking artist boyfriend 20 years her senior would settle down into a pipe-and-slippers type as soon as he stepped out of the church.

Guess what.

Now I am older he is my friend, but I don't speak to her, because I can see now who was true to themselves, well that's part of it.

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posted February 16, 2009 07:01 AM         

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It is why divorce rates are so high these days.

Seems to me that we should be talking to our grandparents more & really listening to what they tell us.

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posted February 16, 2009 07:03 AM         

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And she was trying to make him something he wasn't. That might work with a younger man (for a short-time), but with someone 20 years senior - it won't wash. He's invested to much time in who he is. The older we get the more we strive to be comfortable with who we are and to live our truth. When someone wants to change that........... oh, not good. By that stage at some point, in some way, we've lived through that fear of hurt and we know we can survive it. So there's less chance of repeating it and staying somewhere you're not happy.

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posted February 16, 2009 07:03 AM         

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Passive, it's very passive.

Is it so hard to say: you are knocking it back a bit much, it's getting out of hand. I know you like a drink bu tthis is getting a bit much.

Apologising for screwing up is also a good thing for relationships. I do it. Both the messing up and the apologising. Obviously not very often because I am close to perfect.

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posted February 16, 2009 07:06 AM         

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PA

Did you see that 23 popped in today? She left a message in the previous Godzala thread for you.

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posted February 16, 2009 07:06 AM         

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spunky

Divorce rates puzzle me. I don't believe that anyone goes into marriage expecting to divorce at some stage. Which means, people get married because they love each other - or think they do - and intend to be together for the rest of their lives. So that so many go off the rails is just mindboggling. Does it mean people were dishonest with themselves to begin with? Or they were placing their ideals upon the other where those qualities didn't exist? Or do they give up? I mean, I know there's numerous reasons. And I know not everyone is forever and we move on, but those figures are so high. It's just really sad. Just even to think that you could have loved someone so much and then not have them in your life at all or acrimoniously - it's just really really sad.

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posted February 16, 2009 07:09 AM         

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She tried to change him and he wouldn't change. That sums it up.

Divorce rate? Sometimes people should never have got married in the first place. That has always happened, so has the drifting apart that can happen over decades.

But. The expectation is the thing that has changed. I do have a couple of friends who married under 18, they are both with the same man over 40 years later. In both cases they say the same thing about expectations.

It's what we can see on Astro. Nothing is going to fall into your lap and be a lifelong honeymoon. I don't care what soulmate indicators a chart has, there are other people on the planet and they can do plenty of things to screw things up for two people getting along with their day. That's just basic fact, that's the way the world is, we have to live in it and muddle through together as best we can. If that is too much of a trial, well, then you get what you are going to get.

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posted February 16, 2009 07:09 AM         

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bm

Yes, I suspected this about you (being close to perfect). But a well placed sorry every now and then is better than the standard "uh-huh" or "yes dear". Sometimes sorry can be hard if the other person is not gracious about it - and not that they really should be if you've been an arse, but still, it can make it harder when you know that they're going to be arrogant about it. But still the right thing to do. It's a word I'm very familiar with. If I **** up, I'm the first one in there saying it. That's one thing I really like about me. It would be preferable that I didn't in the first place, but..........

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posted February 16, 2009 07:18 AM         

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bm

THAT'S IT! That's exactly right. What you're saying is that people are too afraid to live (and love) - in fear that they may get hurt.

But what if you don't? Or what if you do or it's less than ideal and you survive it?

My son used to be terrified of trying anything. I said to him that if you don't try you never find out how good you are. You try, you don't do so good, but you learnt from it. You try, you do great, you feel good about you and know your strenghts and it gives you courage and momentum to try something else. But you tried and you're still standing. It's the same thing.

No-one wants to get hurt. Everyone fears pain. But that's no reason to live a loveless life and to not have a go at anything.

I didn't want to go to school today. I just felt like I was really missing the kids. But the kids are at school when I'm at tech - so who am I kidding. I just wanted to sabotage myself - because I was afraid. So I picked myself up, put on a brave face, and had a great day. Not because I actually did quite well - did better than I thought I would - but because I went beyond my fears.

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posted February 16, 2009 07:18 AM         

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spunky

Thanks for that. I just went and left 23 a message. Hopefully she'll be back soon.

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posted February 16, 2009 07:22 AM         

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LOL bm - the Valentine thread between you and AG. Total crack up. Love the message in the heart. Hilarious.

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posted February 16, 2009 07:22 AM         

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Solar Arc and draconics....can you see my thinking?

SA Venus Square Neptune
after which
SA Venus Opposite Uranus

And right now SA Venus is also on Draconic Sun.

Something is up there, I would say. I've only got a guesstimate chart to work on, but it was an interesting observation, so I thought I would start to check this out elsewhere.

Solar Arc aspects have proved to be powerful as I look back in time. I've scribbled something down somewhere.

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posted February 16, 2009 07:25 AM         

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Would I get naked after that, oh yes, I think I would. Did you see the Neptune description?

*palpitations*

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posted February 16, 2009 07:25 AM         

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spunky

I think sending your son to acting classes is a great idea. Great creative expression. At the very least it will be a confidence builder for him.

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posted February 16, 2009 07:26 AM         

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bm

Some people's Neptune fantasy is reality for others.

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posted February 16, 2009 07:29 AM         

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So as it was, HunkOfRope was actually a real name. I just wasn't sure if it was a mock name. Well, turns out I was right about Fisty being someone already familiar and the reason for them not posting their chart.

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